I wouldn't say that, Dani got along very well on the 990 in his rookie year. I don't have any doubt he could adept to the 1000's just as good as the others. It will be far more interesting to see how Lorenzo would adept to a 1000. Agree on your other points.
Pressure, pressure, pressure...
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I wouldn't say that, Dani got along very well on the 990 in his rookie year. I don't have any doubt he could adept to the 1000's just as good as the others. It will be far more interesting to see how Lorenzo would adept to a 1000. Agree on your other points.
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The replacement is obvious, however Pedrobot 2.0 has atleast 3 years before he is ready for the Repsol squad. Or Marquez as some people call him.
The baby vs the baby. One mentally and one physically. This is going to be a great battle to watch next year.
We had the same thought. I think I'm gonna call Marcky Marq La Flama Blanca.
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If we are talking total pressure (mental, sponsors, country, etc..) I would have to guess it to be Rossi. They all are in GP to race, though I believe he is truly the only one out there also driven by being in the spotlight. He has a mental picture of who or what it is to be a idolized hero, there for it is a major strain he puts on him self. Other than money it has to be the idea of patriotism that allowed him to take the Ducati seat.
Firstly, Great thread. Thank god.
Very interesting concept and one which is providing good healthy debate.
Outright pressure has to be on Jorge, without doubt. Jorge is the reigning champ, his chief competition has been injured or crashing a lot. He has adopted the Rossi celebrations-one off liveries, fan club flags- the works-overstated celebrations need to be backed up as Rossi has done. And all of this on the top of a very strong season in 2010. Development responsibility and Add Spies into this as a teammate and its going to be game on next year for Jorge.
Stoner has the unknown yet very strong Honda, but hes not the champ, and Dani is similar with probably a little more heat with Casey next door.
Rossi has been there and done it all before with Honda and Yamaha, whilst Ducati is Italian, the bike is much stronger than the Yamaha was in 2003 so there certainly is a degree of expectation which is not all black and white as some want to believe. If Rossi doesn't perform at least as well as Stoner this year then a big question mark will be on him. And it won't be the bikes fault. But Rossi has the runs on the board and only continues in Motogp for outright records, the masses of people who want to see him on a bike week in week out-and fun IMO.
Dovi, well he also needs to pick it up, but expectation is certainly less than the others. Spies probably has more pressure than him on the factory M1.
Very interesting concept and one which is providing good healthy debate.
Outright pressure has to be on Jorge, without doubt. Jorge is the reigning champ, his chief competition has been injured or crashing a lot. He has adopted the Rossi celebrations-one off liveries, fan club flags- the works-overstated celebrations need to be backed up as Rossi has done. And all of this on the top of a very strong season in 2010. Development responsibility and Add Spies into this as a teammate and its going to be game on next year for Jorge.
Stoner has the unknown yet very strong Honda, but hes not the champ, and Dani is similar with probably a little more heat with Casey next door.
Rossi has been there and done it all before with Honda and Yamaha, whilst Ducati is Italian, the bike is much stronger than the Yamaha was in 2003 so there certainly is a degree of expectation which is not all black and white as some want to believe. If Rossi doesn't perform at least as well as Stoner this year then a big question mark will be on him. And it won't be the bikes fault. But Rossi has the runs on the board and only continues in Motogp for outright records, the masses of people who want to see him on a bike week in week out-and fun IMO.
Dovi, well he also needs to pick it up, but expectation is certainly less than the others. Spies probably has more pressure than him on the factory M1.
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on all of them one way or another...
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That's a new one Travi. Havent heard that one. I guess his sense of "patriotism" only started a few month ago then, when Yamaha committed the crime of resigning Lorenzo. Oddly, around the time he started to say he really really really wanted to finish his career with the Japanese company. Maybe he's Italianese?
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Agreed and kinda why I voted Rossi.
But I also think it willbe a damn good thing in the end, I'm pretty sure Burgess can change that thing. The only hassle is 2010 proved that Rossi is not necessarily the best rider for Burgess to be with. ie. Lorenzo with the same equipment
I wonder how Stoner would have gone with Burgess on the Duc. ? or if they do get somewhere with the Duc. perhaps the guy to really look out for is Hayden, if they pass modifications on to him.
So in effect its all on Rossi. The sad fact is that even if Burgess can't get it sorted, its very likely Ducati will cop the blame immediately, but if he doesn't even match Stoners win rate on the Duc. ....... then after the initial "hooha" Rossi will cop some of the blame too.
They'd better perform or it will be "noah's ark time" with all the floods of tears from the Boppers. Its one thing to have such a base of fans when thingsare good, but when it goes bad ......... get out the umbrellas ..... or boats if it gets so bad.
I Picked the most Pressure
Jorguy on pressure because he need to prove (champ 2010 / Vales bike)
Pedrobot (Honda need badly for the champ) and I don't like puig
Stacy need prove he not a ladyguy (crash all the time) I don't like that guy
Jorguy on pressure because he need to prove (champ 2010 / Vales bike)
Pedrobot (Honda need badly for the champ) and I don't like puig
Stacy need prove he not a ladyguy (crash all the time) I don't like that guy
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Interesting responses so far, with the voting roughly split between Rossi, Lorenzo and Pedrosa at the moment. One thing I should mention, is that 2011 will actually be Pedrosa's sixth season with Repsol Honda, not his fifth; counting that up would have been easier if I was a hillbilly!
That's a good point about self-imposed pressure, but I think you overestimate Lorenzo's obssession with beating Rossi specifically. It's not a head to head championship. I mean, Lorenzo's primary motivation is to win, right? Just like all the riders. And if Lorenzo wins, by default, it means he's beaten Rossi. If Lorenzo focuses too much on Rossi, there's always the chance that one of the Repsol guys, or his own new team mate will waltz off with the title. I think Lorenzo is smarter than that.
Of course, if you want to make it all about Rossi, you can turn it around the other way around, too. Rossi's never lost consecutive championships to another rider in his MotoGP career. Should Lorenzo repeat his feat it in 2011, that would be back to back title wins against Rossi, something unprecedented. Rossi badly wants that not to happen. But he goes into 2011 at a disadvantage compared with Lorenzo. Thats' a lot of (partly self-applied) pressure.
Dani is not bothered about winning? I think it probably bothers him quite a lot!
Although Pedrosa has a two year contract, if Stoner starts winning early on the Honda development will inevitably centre on him and it could be quite a miserable time for #26 in 2011.
There has been a lot of talk about Stoner on Honda and what he might do, but I don't think his situation is all that different to Rossi's. If Stoner makes it through the warm-up lap and manages not to crash during the race, nobody will be surprised if he wins next weekend at Valencia. Four wins for the Duc will match the four for Honda in 2010. Rossi does know a thing or two about sorting out a bike, as well. But I understand that you were talking more about fan expectations.
To be fair, I worded the question 'Who will be under the most pressure to produce results in 2011?' All seven of the riders I picked won't be championship contenders for the whole season (unless we have a season for the ages!), but they will be under pressure to produce results. And if he's not closer to the sharp end, Hayden will also have a tougher time in 2011 always finishing ahead of the Pramac Ducati's of Capirossi and de Puniet.
It's interesting, isn't it, because as Povol (and J4rno) pointed out there are different kinds of pressure. For the riders, in terms of pressure from their employers, Dovi, Hayden and Spies will be under the microscope the most, since they are all out of contract at the end of the season. But the media drives the pressure talk for the general public, in terms of championship contention--and whoever gets off to a slow start next season you can be sure will cop it. In a forum like this, you'd expect the pressure to reflect the tone of the community--and I thought that would mean Stoner and Lorenzo would be the prime candidates; but that hasn't been reflected in the voting so far!
Kropotkin, if you're lurking in this thread, I'd love to hear your take, and what the feeling is in the GP paddock itself.
Early 2011 silly season prediction: Dovi to Gresini Honda, taking the quasi-factory ride that team always has; Simoncelli to partner Rossi at Ducati; and Hayden to head up Suzuki/BMW/someone's new 1000cc effort!
Lorenzo's ambition adds some stress to his situation. NO rider has won more than one single premier class title in the last 11 years, racing against Rossi (who won 7 out of 11 so far). Should Lorenzo repeat his feat it in 2011, that would be back to back title wins against Rossi, something unprecedented. Hmmm. He badly wants that. Anything less than that would amount to defeat for him. Thats' a lot of (partly self-applied) pressure.
That's a good point about self-imposed pressure, but I think you overestimate Lorenzo's obssession with beating Rossi specifically. It's not a head to head championship. I mean, Lorenzo's primary motivation is to win, right? Just like all the riders. And if Lorenzo wins, by default, it means he's beaten Rossi. If Lorenzo focuses too much on Rossi, there's always the chance that one of the Repsol guys, or his own new team mate will waltz off with the title. I think Lorenzo is smarter than that.
Of course, if you want to make it all about Rossi, you can turn it around the other way around, too. Rossi's never lost consecutive championships to another rider in his MotoGP career. Should Lorenzo repeat his feat it in 2011, that would be back to back title wins against Rossi, something unprecedented. Rossi badly wants that not to happen. But he goes into 2011 at a disadvantage compared with Lorenzo. Thats' a lot of (partly self-applied) pressure.
Dani is not bothered about winning? I think it probably bothers him quite a lot!
There has been a lot of talk about Stoner on Honda and what he might do, but I don't think his situation is all that different to Rossi's. If Stoner makes it through the warm-up lap and manages not to crash during the race, nobody will be surprised if he wins next weekend at Valencia. Four wins for the Duc will match the four for Honda in 2010. Rossi does know a thing or two about sorting out a bike, as well. But I understand that you were talking more about fan expectations.
Haydenim sure he will find his way back to the sharp end with the help of rossi's crew, although his fans will cry he is just testing for rossi even if he podiums every race but behind rossi.
To be fair, I worded the question 'Who will be under the most pressure to produce results in 2011?' All seven of the riders I picked won't be championship contenders for the whole season (unless we have a season for the ages!), but they will be under pressure to produce results. And if he's not closer to the sharp end, Hayden will also have a tougher time in 2011 always finishing ahead of the Pramac Ducati's of Capirossi and de Puniet.
It's interesting, isn't it, because as Povol (and J4rno) pointed out there are different kinds of pressure. For the riders, in terms of pressure from their employers, Dovi, Hayden and Spies will be under the microscope the most, since they are all out of contract at the end of the season. But the media drives the pressure talk for the general public, in terms of championship contention--and whoever gets off to a slow start next season you can be sure will cop it. In a forum like this, you'd expect the pressure to reflect the tone of the community--and I thought that would mean Stoner and Lorenzo would be the prime candidates; but that hasn't been reflected in the voting so far!
Kropotkin, if you're lurking in this thread, I'd love to hear your take, and what the feeling is in the GP paddock itself.
Early 2011 silly season prediction: Dovi to Gresini Honda, taking the quasi-factory ride that team always has; Simoncelli to partner Rossi at Ducati; and Hayden to head up Suzuki/BMW/someone's new 1000cc effort!
I would have to say pedrosa, with all the time and money put into him and the team and with it being the last 800 season and with them signing stoner as well thats like a little kick in the nuts or a prod with the motivation stick!
I dont think by there nature Rossi and maybe less so Lorenzo (as he will have spies as a team mateJ feel the pressure as much just my opinion.
I dont think by there nature Rossi and maybe less so Lorenzo (as he will have spies as a team mateJ feel the pressure as much just my opinion.
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For me the most pressure is on Ducati. If they do not deliver a championship winning bike for Rossi then the wrath of the Rossifumi will rain down like fire from Haidies. It will also prove once and for all that it was all Stoner and in reality Ducati have never delivered a championship winning bike. If Rossi does not win a Championship for Ducati in the next 2 years the pressure will see them out of MotoGP.
Second in the pressure stakes is Yamaha for much the same reason. If they do not win again in the next 2 years then it will be proven that it was all Rossi.
So I think that in 2011 & 2012 the Ducati and the Yamaha Engineers have the most pressure.
Second in the pressure stakes is Yamaha for much the same reason. If they do not win again in the next 2 years then it will be proven that it was all Rossi.
So I think that in 2011 & 2012 the Ducati and the Yamaha Engineers have the most pressure.
No it will be speculated that it was all Rossi. But that speculation will be wrong
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Lorenzo. Spies. Pedrosa.
Lorenzo WILL be competitive, and noone puts more pressure on Jorge than Jorge. He races to win. Also, he'll be racing to stay number one (in the team) because Spies will be competitive and he's focussed and in it to win it completely. Even though he shouldnt, because he's new to the team and should be bedding himself in with the odd shout at a win, Spies will have a lot of pressure from outside, he wont let it get to him (where i think Lorenzo does) but people will be expecting a lot because of how good he's been.
Also Pedrosa, he needs results. this year has been his best in motogp up until injury (which ALWAYS plagues him when he's doing well! :/ ) He needs to be getting better results than Stoner (and if Casey's on form thats easier said than done) and should be fighting for the championship. As much as i love the guy he should have a top title by now...
As for Rossi, well the pressure's off completely (for this year at least). If he's competitive/winning right off the mark he'll be hailed a hero (if he can be any more so..) and if he doesnt well he's settling in, getting used to the bike/team/setting etc etc. He's got his excuses already so he doesnt need to feel the pressure.
Lorenzo WILL be competitive, and noone puts more pressure on Jorge than Jorge. He races to win. Also, he'll be racing to stay number one (in the team) because Spies will be competitive and he's focussed and in it to win it completely. Even though he shouldnt, because he's new to the team and should be bedding himself in with the odd shout at a win, Spies will have a lot of pressure from outside, he wont let it get to him (where i think Lorenzo does) but people will be expecting a lot because of how good he's been.
Also Pedrosa, he needs results. this year has been his best in motogp up until injury (which ALWAYS plagues him when he's doing well! :/ ) He needs to be getting better results than Stoner (and if Casey's on form thats easier said than done) and should be fighting for the championship. As much as i love the guy he should have a top title by now...
As for Rossi, well the pressure's off completely (for this year at least). If he's competitive/winning right off the mark he'll be hailed a hero (if he can be any more so..) and if he doesnt well he's settling in, getting used to the bike/team/setting etc etc. He's got his excuses already so he doesnt need to feel the pressure.
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In this "mudialito of pressure" I'd say Spies would be the least affected. He's got the WSBK championship
only just behind him and he's not especially expected to dethrone Lorenzo in his 2nd year in MGP. He's
a relatively fresh face and has demonstrated his potential, his reliability and maturity and will not be
searching around anxiously for a ride in 2012.
Whereas however... Dovi is something of a 3rd wheel and Hayden is languishing in a hell of mediocre results
whether from bad luck or bad machinery. Ducati's patience can only last for so long, unless they are seeing
Hayden in the role of top test rider.
Should Yamaha turn fickle re: a 2012 renewal for Spies - I'd be interested to see what he could manage on
the 1000cc Duc. Tho - at some level - Preziosi must be thinking the same about Hayden.
Is there a chance after all his demoralizing results that Hayden can shine again on a big
bike - or is he damaged goods?
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Great thread again Sun. BTW, I thought Nicky had signed a 2 year contract. That would put him safe until the introduction of the 1000s. At which point his stock may or may not go up.
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...............................
That's a good point about self-imposed pressure, but I think you overestimate Lorenzo's obssession with beating Rossi specifically. It's not a head to head championship. I mean, Lorenzo's primary motivation is to win, right? Just like all the riders. And if Lorenzo wins, by default, it means he's beaten Rossi. If Lorenzo focuses too much on Rossi, there's always the chance that one of the Repsol guys, or his own new team mate will waltz off with the title. I think Lorenzo is smarter than that.
Of course, if you want to make it all about Rossi, you can turn it around the other way around, too. Rossi's never lost consecutive championships to another rider in his MotoGP career. Should Lorenzo repeat his feat it in 2011, that would be back to back title wins against Rossi, something unprecedented. Rossi badly wants that not to happen. But he goes into 2011 at a disadvantage compared with Lorenzo. Thats' a lot of (partly self-applied) pressure.
............................
Yes, it does work both ways. Absolutely! But it's not really the same.
I know Lorenzo says he does not care too much about Rossi, that he just concentrates on winning; I wonder if he is aware that he's repeating what Stoner used to say at the beginning of 2008. Same psychological pattern there... I think all these younger champions are actually very much obsessed with beating Rossi, whatever they may say. And that gives Rossi his motivation to go on
