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Noyes Notebook: Shuhei Nakamoto Interview

A few thoughts. One, Nakamoto wields iron control in that interview. Two, Nakamoto is still pissed with the single tire supplier (gifted for the benefit of Rossi). However, I still don't like the reason given to go back to a tire war. He recalls satellite rider Tamada wining in Rio, and as he mentioned it I was reminded of Elias wining in Estoril. I don't think this makes a good case to go with a tire war when some riders are going to get some advantage of tires that other riders will not get given the propensity of the sport to favor only the darlings. Less I remind everybody, the only reason Elias was competitive that fateful race was because Pedrobot discarded his SNS (once this was revealed, people should have realized the outrageousness of the level playing field). Third, Nakamoto reminded us that Dorna changes rules at will for its own devices, most of the time for obvious favoritism, despite many observers with head in the sand when it comes to this (including "experts"). When he mentions that Dorna changed the testing limits, he says for obvious affect "we don't know why", (we got the message thank you, but we sane people already knew) It was obviously done to help Rossi figure out the Ducati (despite this favoritism, it was to no avail). Though the trend continues, as the rookie rule was changed with the same level of explanation, that is, none. Fourth, Honda got checkmated with Dornas custodianship of Wsbk. Now they have no leverage. Honda have left the AMA, Wsbk, and now are stuck to compete in MotoGP (I laugh at his suggestion he would only compete in an "all-Japan" series). The shifty nature of the rules was fine up until they lost Rossi, Dorna had a very sympathetic ear, now they find themselves having to compete in a situation where they are no longer writing the rules in chalk. That is, now they complain about the rules changes, but when they ran the table, the rules were just fine in that same white limestone material. He got ...... by Dornas maneuver on the tire change and weight increase, but that was all done under the "rules".



He also says Pedro’s was the king of the Hondas, but sweeps the fact it was by design, that is detrimental to others trying to ride the Pedrocycle. When that failed strategy didn't work (and make no mistake, it was a complete failure), they decided a more 'all' rider friendly bike might be the ticket (since the development was going to complete ....). Enter Casey and he spanks Pedro. So much for the "king", more like a 'queen' (and I'll add, a little ..... to boot). I found myself laughing several times in during this article, first, by poor Noyes being stomped on repeatedly, but also by the hypocrisy of it all. Best moment, Nakamoto says journalists are scum of the earth, then says, oh, I didn't mean you Noyes. Hahaha. MF.
 
However, I still don't like the reason given to go back to a tire war. He recalls satellite rider Tamada wining in Rio, and as he mentioned it I was reminded of Elias wining in Estoril. I don't think this makes a good case to go with a tire war when some riders are going to get some advantage of tires that other riders will not get given the propensity of the sport to favor only the darlings.



If they bring back a tire war, it won't function like 2006 when Michelin could only afford to fly in ONS for the rich teams and preferred riders. The GPC will use homologation to control the number of carcass and compound variants, which will suppress the cost of tires. Homologation also allows the governing body to specify the permissible materials, dimensions, and production techniques. I'm quite certain they already headed down this road in 2007 and 2008. The only way to ban ONS, imo, is to have some kind of homologated list. Specially built overnight tires cannot be added the day before the race. Then in 2008 after cornering speeds exploded, they tried to regulate the profile of the front carcass to decrease the size of the contact patch (speculative guess). When Bridgestone created the squishy front compound to increase the size of the front contact patch, they threw a spanner in the works. Dorna has hired Yasukawa to figure the tire situation out, and I think a tire war may be imminent in the not to distant future.



The shifty nature of the rules was fine up until they lost Rossi, Dorna had a very sympathetic ear, now they find themselves having to compete in a situation where they are no longer writing the rules in chalk.



You put too much emphasis on Rossi. Dorna went to war with the MSMA when the organization started falling apart in 2009. The quarrel became public after Suuzki withdrew.
 
Conspiracy is the term used to discredit and smokescreen the real problem.



Favoritism towards certain riders.



Lex, your post is spot on, but I don't think Jum places enough focus on Rossi. Losing teams is simply a side effect of a set of rules that changes every time Rossi wants them changed and drives the development costs through the roof for the less financial teams.



They have to change directions every time the Dorna/Rossi marriage wants them changed and thus cannot maintain continuity of development. Every change to accommodate the new and improved regulatory environment and real changes to hardware and software causes spending that the others cannot absorb.



They fall behind financially, their development and engineering suffers and the results show on the track. It reinforces the Rossi dominance in the sport.



This is why I think three of the best riders in history are Hayden, Stoner and Lorenzo. They beat the system, fought the man and won.



Rossi behaves like a clown, sponsors give him more money, Dorna see's his stand alone standover tactics as a business model for a whole sport rather than being the non altruistic ranting of a spoiled brat and they further support him exacerbating the problem. He looks good, the others look bad and the management then link their success to his. A vicious idiotic circle.
 
It sounds like Honda is barely cognizant that there are people sitting in the stands. There is no show to them. The fans only serve as an end to their means which is to inspire the riders to give 100% so they can get maximum feedback. Sounds pretty ...... clinical



Ive heard that when Honda hires an engineer they make them work on the race teams first. They want them to learn in a fast paced ever changing enviornment that breeds maximum innovation. He seemed to allude to that by saying they originally went racing for the engineering aspect of it.

I do think it a bit ........ how he minimizes Hondas attitude toward the passion of racing. A big part of why they race is to prove their the biggest .... on the block
 
This is why I think three of the best riders in history are Hayden, Stoner and Lorenzo. They beat the system, fought the man and won. .
Did they play & beat the system when Hayden was brought in purely because of his passport to capture the US market? Or when Stoner was given favouritism, & attempted myth building at Ducati? Or was it when Lorenzo was given a test rider in Spies?



Jive ... turkey.

 
Losing teams is simply a side effect of a set of rules that changes every time Rossi wants them changed and drives the development costs through the roof for the less financial teams.



The only trouble with that theory is that Dorna did not gain control over the rulebook until this season, and as Nakamoto is keen to point out, Dorna's grip on the technical regulations is quite loose b/c they have contractual obligations with the manufacturers regarding certain aspects of the formula.



The control tire was certainly a disruptive change that Dorna and Rossi pushed; however, I think it was necessary. Cliff's Notes version: In F1, Michelin developed a tire compound technology and a suspension system under the code name optimum contact patch. When F1 outlawed tire changes, Michelin and Renault were the big benefactors b/c they co-developed optimum contact patch. Fast forward to 2008. The tire profile has been regulated (speculative guess) to control the size of the contact patch (same as WSBK before the Pirelli control tire) to control the grip of the tire compounds to control the cornering speed. Bridgestone assumed that Michelin would adapt optimum contact patch to MotoGP, but it turns out that Michelin had neither the funding nor the willpower. At mid-season 2008, only Bridgestone had adapted F1 tire tech to MotoGP, and Michelin decided to withdraw despite pleas from the MSMA. Ezpeleta quickly moved to a control tire b/c the tire profile regs only made performance and cost matters worse by introducing F1 tire tech to GP. Since 2008, Dorna have hired Yasukawa, ex-Bridgestone racing director (including F1).



Besides the flagrant disregard for the MSMA's proposed testing schedule, I can't think of any other unilateral changes that were designed entirely to help Rossi. Yeah, the switch to Bridgstones in 2008 was complete BS, but if Bridgestone were getting ready to sacrifice a technological advantage, they probably weren't too terribly opposed to acquiring Rossi.
 
Bridgestone assumed that Michelin would adapt optimum contact patch to MotoGP, but it turns out that Michelin had neither the funding nor the willpower. At mid-season 2008, only Bridgestone had adapted F1 tire tech to MotoGP, and Michelin decided to withdraw despite pleas from the MSMA. Ezpeleta quickly moved to a control tire.

That is the whole point of having a tire war. It is exactly what Nakamoto is refering to. Ducati, Suzuki, and Kawasaki had patiently waited the years of Honda and Yamaha dominance. Finally it was their turn. They had the Bridgestones. Honda and Yamaha understood the system. They would have given the others their due time in the sun, and run out their Michelin contracts. ....... Ezy did not understand the system and rammed the sun god back down our throats. I am confident Suzuki had the bike to win a title as well given a rider like Spies, but it wasnt to be. So Kawasaki immediately gave the big .... you. Ezy goes so far as to state he doesnt care about Suzuki, having done them so many 'favours'. What a total ........, he ...... Suzuki out of millions of wasted development dollars. Suzuki should wait for him to piss off and retire. Really there is no point being there.
 
Did they play & beat the system when Hayden was brought in purely because of his passport to capture the US market? Or when Stoner was given favouritism, & attempted myth building at Ducati? Or was it when Lorenzo was given a test rider in Spies?



Jive ... turkey.



I've heard this ignorant claim before. Lets see how much sense it makes. There were already three Americans in GP (two American world champs), so signing a fourth one was going to now capture the American market? Haha. Oops, u didnt give ur lost too much thought, eh? Do ur homework son. Nicky had, as one of the youngest ever, pretty much won everything there was to win in the AMA, Superbike and Supersport titles, runner-up in Formula Extreme, with wins run simultaneous in superstock to boot. He was promoted rightly on talent. Given the fact he finished his first year in GP as the top American and Rookie of the Year honors, in a time where we had more than 4 bikes destined to win, i'd say he confirmed his promotion was based all on his potential.



Stoner, haha, u really want to bark up that tree? Lets just agree he was promoted on talent.



Spies, multiple AMA champ in multiple categories, WSBK his rookie year, GP rookie of year. Promoted on talent.



Click [yes] if you would like to continue this debate.



Click [no] if you concede to being a jive ... turkey.



Hint: NO is the correct answer.
 
That is the whole point of having a tire war. It is exactly what Nakamoto is refering to. Ducati, Suzuki, and Kawasaki had patiently waited the years of Honda and Yamaha dominance. Finally it was their turn. They had the Bridgestones. Honda and Yamaha understood the system. They would have given the others their due time in the sun, and run out their Michelin contracts. ....... Ezy did not understand the system and rammed the sun god back down our throats. I am confident Suzuki had the bike to win a title as well given a rider like Spies, but it wasnt to be. So Kawasaki immediately gave the big .... you. Ezy goes so far as to state he doesnt care about Suzuki, having done them so many 'favours'. What a total ........, he ...... Suzuki out of millions of wasted development dollars. Suzuki should wait for him to piss off and retire. Really there is no point being there.



Michelin withdrew at the end of 2008, and they rejected the Michelin coup in which Ducati and Kawasaki were going to switch suppliers. We were always going to have a singe tire supplier in 2009. The control tire simply reduced costs and stopped everyone from crying about unfair tire treatment.



Furthermore, the original MotoGP agreement was for the manufacturers to run 2 factory bikes and 2 satellite bikes to keep the grid numbers up. Unfortunately, Suzuki never honored the agreement, and since the MSMA negotiated as a group, Ezpeleta could not hold individual manufacturers in breach of contract. I'm sure the collective MSMA contracts were at least part of the reason that Kawasaki were able to leave with impunity.



In 2009 and 2010, Ezpeleta finally let the public know how GP worked and that he was not the problem, nor the source of the 800cc regulations. Don't try rewrite the past. The MSMA got MotoGP into this mess. If they want to get GP out of this mess, more power to them. Unfortunately, the MSMA have done nothing but make the problem worse.
 
Did they play & beat the system when Hayden was brought in purely because of his passport to capture the US market? Or when Stoner was given favouritism, & attempted myth building at Ducati? Or was it when Lorenzo was given a test rider in Spies?



Jive ... turkey.

I am somewhat of a subscriber to lex's 2008 tyre conspiracy theory, that the high tech bridgestone tyre particularly suited to and developed for the ducati was taken away; whatever the reasons for this I don't think helping stoner was among them. Still rossi rode superlatively that year and stoner probably still had good enough equipment to have a shot at the title if he had ridden better and rossi less well. Even if true it is a somewhat moot point whether rossi was aided by the authorities. I don't believe he required or was given any help for his many other achievements; like most others involved in the sport dorna were likely happy to see him win though.



You doubtless exaggerate for effect, but I don't think stoner being signed to a 1 year contract as ducati's 4th choice with the fairly clear intention of replacing him with marco melandri for 2008 constitutes outrageous favouritism. Listening to ducati's early season comments they also seemed to only regard him as the number one rider after he outperformed capirossi in the early races and looked a championship contender.
 
It was the vilification. The demand for tyre changes (succeeded) but also the talk of RPM ceilings and various other what were described then (and they are in the archives here) as "anti stoner" rules.



It was a case of Casey being the bad guy and every time VR opened his mouth and bemoaned the problems with motogp (which in my opinion are his creation) it was aimed at limiting stoner and he had a willing audience with the press and especially Carmen.



One only had to see how Michelin were tossed out to realise the power that a few riders had. I only complain because if Stoner wasn't one of them (nor was Jorge - still riding on the Michelins with a wall). Jive arse Turkeys love an underdog
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I think that at the point Stoner had enough influence to call a rule change or anything he was leaving anyway. He came and left with clean hands.



....... Jive arse Turkey ...
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I am so gonna get you
<
 
It was the vilification. The demand for tyre changes (succeeded) but also the talk of RPM ceilings and various other what were described then (and they are in the archives here) as "anti stoner" rules.



It was a case of Casey being the bad guy and every time VR opened his mouth and bemoaned the problems with motogp (which in my opinion are his creation) it was aimed at limiting stoner and he had a willing audience with the press and especially Carmen.



One only had to see how Michelin were tossed out to realise the power that a few riders had. I only complain because if Stoner wasn't one of them (nor was Jorge - still riding on the Michelins with a wall). Jive arse Turkeys love an underdog
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I think that at the point Stoner had enough influence to call a rule change or anything he was leaving anyway. He came and left with clean hands.



....... Jive arse Turkey ...
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I am so gonna get you
<

Reacting to denigration of rossi is perhaps different to stoner, lorenzo or hayden bashing de novo.



i do agree that it looks as though stoner winning a championship does seem to be followed by calls to change rules or actual changes to rules, coincidentally or otherwise, unlike when valentino wins, or when mick doohan won for that matter, as nakomoto actually says. It would certainly seem it looks that way to stoner, whether or not he is paranoid . I recall honda (in the days when they weren't so ultimately evil) and yamaha calling for a rev limit in 2007 because of a perceived advantage from the desmo valve system, to which suppo replied that desmo valves were on fairly basic ducati street bikes, and perhaps they were going to follow a rev limit by calling for a ban on australian riders; many would perhaps consider the latter a good idea.
 
Is Noyes middle name Alfred? or Alan? or Arthur? ........ cos all his write ups are so Denis "ANoyes"!!



seriously the guy rights stuff that has been done and dusted 6 months ago.
 
I've gotta be quick, gotta go for an aids blood test.



Getting the AMA champion isn't an attempt to interest the US market?



I never said Spies wasn't promoted on talent, I said his talent was abused.



Michelin were dumped because they were not up to the job.



If Duc wanted to replace Stoner it is another sign that they didn't listen to him & ultimately believed in the bike.
 
I've gotta be quick, gotta go for an aids blood test.



Getting the AMA champion isn't an attempt to interest the US market?



I never said Spies wasn't promoted on talent, I said his talent was abused.



Michelin were dumped because they were not up to the job.



If Duc wanted to replace Stoner it is another sign that they didn't listen to him & ultimately believed in the bike.

No doubt strong backing from american honda played a role with hayden. Winning a championship rather justified him as I

am sure you don't disagree.



I don't know what gives with spies. He is perhaps somebody who whilst very talented is also sensitive and needs things in the right alignment, like stoner to an extent as well. His team this year just seems to be grossly incompetent though as I guess you are saying.
 
If Duc wanted to replace Stoner it is another sign that they didn't listen to him & ultimately believed in the bike.



But they didn't want toget rid of Stoner, they knew where their bread was buttered but even giving Stoner the royal treatment for years could not hold him with a bike that is essentially flawed by design, ie.the VSG's.
 
But they didn't want toget rid of Stoner, they knew where their bread was buttered but even giving Stoner the royal treatment for years could not hold him with a bike that is essentially flawed by design, ie.the VSG's.

Stoner himself would seem to disagree, he has said outright that lack of support (at a level above ducati corse itself) during his 2009 travails was a major contributor to his disillusionment with gp racing, and he presumably wasn't impressed by them pursuing jorge and offering him double the money.



The bike being flawed was perhaps the point being made, and i am sure riding the thing on the edge of crashing for years wore him down as you imply.
 
Did they play & beat the system when Hayden was brought in purely because of his passport to capture the US market? Or when Stoner was given favouritism, & attempted myth building at Ducati? Or was it when Lorenzo was given a test rider in Spies?



Jive ... turkey.



Dude, it is strange and cosmic here tonight, distant fireworks ring the celebration of the sheep shaggers cup, the air feels like is has a clarity beyond real, an unearthly pall hangs, not as hell and the baying of Cerebus is muted, lo, but the tingling path to redemption.



And three wise men, Stoner Hayden and Lorenzo.



A fourth choice rider, an appeal to far flung reaches of the empire and a young serf. Yet the courtiers in their palaces of gold surrounded by willing handmaidens (and Uccio) didn't see this, the seers comfortable in the dominance of the status quo only told of future glory to the King and his ilk.



But they came from afar (except Jorge)



And brought us gifts.



Forget Herod's herald and the tomes of Roman Emperors.



Their travels were not expected to amount to anything, and yet they gave us 5 unexpected world championships and revealed the stench of Romes depravity.



Rejoice in these gifts, for in their teachings is the truth



(Jive arse Turkey
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