<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Sep 2 2006, 03:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>250s are a dying breed, and I`ve heard they were going to replace them with 600cc 4 strokes, the main reason being that so many domestic series organisers are dropping thier 250 championships in favour of Supersport championships, but 125GP bikes still have a strong base in domestic championships, so I think they`ve still got some life in them. And I heard they would replace 125s with 400cc four strokes... That`s a lot of grunt considering how young and unexperienced some of those riders are, how much power could the squeeze out of a 400 prototype? must be in the vicinity of 100-120. That`s a lot of grunt for a 15 year old with limited experience. If they gotta change the smaller classes to 4 strokes I think it should be 200cc bikes instead of 125s and 400cc bikes instead of 250s. Just because a lot of 125 and 250 riders dont have the experience that MotoGP riders do, and they could really hurt themselves on big-power four strokes.You are joking Richo, hurt themselves? The days of 250's are numbered. The support classes will go 4stroke eventually but as to what capacity nobody really knows and it's a long way away. Big problem is that 250's and 125's are cheap. !25 racing is here to stay for a while yet but as to what 250's will be replaced with I haven't a clue. I reckon a 400 could put out 140+bhp, considering a 250 puts out 105+
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Sep 2 2006, 02:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This whole "ride it like a 250 theory" I'm thinking is turning into a load of BS. Was there BIG advancements that happened from the 05 to 06 season that would have had Max at the top in points if he found a ride this year! That was what always held Max back was his "250 style" everyone has always said.Ride it like a 250, that will never work cos its not a 250, so that theory would be BS in my book. Carry more corner speed, much more than you're used to, changing your whole idea about now the bike shoud behave, that can be very difficult for a racer. For all of these guys its just like changing class, because thats pretty much what it is. That's why the 250 and 500 guys will have an edge over the superbikers. Biaggi has nothing to do with it.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Sep 1 2006, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
I don`t think Edwards is about to go and join the NASCAR circuit though
He could do, at one point there were rumours that Rossi said he had had enough of MotoGP and wanted a move to NASCAR.
He could do, at one point there were rumours that Rossi said he had had enough of MotoGP and wanted a move to NASCAR.
Some big HQ images from the 800cc bikes tested at brno. 10 megabytes in a zip file. Before extracting rename it to "brno.zip".
http://ultrashare.net/hosting/fl/33c9fe9d28/
http://ultrashare.net/hosting/fl/33c9fe9d28/
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Sep 2 2006, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are joking Richo, hurt themselves? The days of 250's are numbered. The support classes will go 4stroke eventually but as to what capacity nobody really knows and it's a long way away. Big problem is that 250's and 125's are cheap. !25 racing is here to stay for a while yet but as to what 250's will be replaced with I haven't a clue. I reckon a 400 could put out 140+bhp, considering a 250 puts out 105+
How about going straight from Supersport to MotoGP as an alternative for Superbikers. I was reading an article about the AMA FX-spec American Honda CBR600s that Duhamel and Zemke rode in the Daytona 200 this year and Zemke was talking about how it really only made power up the top, and there wasnt enough ower to slide the back wheel like the superbikes, so it meant they had to carry higher corner speed, and avoid backing it in. Sounded like a GP-style to me. It`s just a theory, but what do you think? Supersport riders going straight to MotoGP?
How about going straight from Supersport to MotoGP as an alternative for Superbikers. I was reading an article about the AMA FX-spec American Honda CBR600s that Duhamel and Zemke rode in the Daytona 200 this year and Zemke was talking about how it really only made power up the top, and there wasnt enough ower to slide the back wheel like the superbikes, so it meant they had to carry higher corner speed, and avoid backing it in. Sounded like a GP-style to me. It`s just a theory, but what do you think? Supersport riders going straight to MotoGP?
Richo, supersport has always been like that, you have to rev the .... out of a 600 all the time. Tuning a 600 is a balancing act, you can only squeeze so much torque out of them but you want to keep every ounce of power up top. I definitely wouldn't say that the corner speed is or even can be higher than superbikes, both the bikes weigh pretty much the same, a supersport bike has to run treaded tyres which have less grip than slicks, and you can't just bolt on whatever suspension bits you like. With the tuning allowed under FIM supersport regs, ( AMA rules may be different ) a good 600 can have over 150BHP, that'll slide all you want it to, so maybe Zemke was referring to the banking at Daytona and that's why they couldn't slide. I don't Know.
It's an interesting idea about guys going straight from supersport to gp racing but I can't see it working for the simple reason that the level of racing in supersport isn't as high. I'd bet you'd find it difficult to find riders at the same level as Pedrosa or Stoner in a supersport championship. I'm not saying for one second that there aren't guys just as talented racing in supersport, what I am saying is they won't be fast enough yet.
It's an interesting idea about guys going straight from supersport to gp racing but I can't see it working for the simple reason that the level of racing in supersport isn't as high. I'd bet you'd find it difficult to find riders at the same level as Pedrosa or Stoner in a supersport championship. I'm not saying for one second that there aren't guys just as talented racing in supersport, what I am saying is they won't be fast enough yet.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Sep 4 2006, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Richo, supersport has always been like that, you have to rev the .... out of a 600 all the time. Tuning a 600 is a balancing act, you can only squeeze so much torque out of them but you want to keep every ounce of power up top. I definitely wouldn't say that the corner speed is or even can be higher than superbikes, both the bikes weigh pretty much the same, a supersport bike has to run treaded tyres which have less grip than slicks, and you can't just bolt on whatever suspension bits you like. With the tuning allowed under FIM supersport regs, ( AMA rules may be different ) a good 600 can have over 150BHP, that'll slide all you want it to, so maybe Zemke was referring to the banking at Daytona and that's why they couldn't slide. I don't Know.
It's an interesting idea about guys going straight from supersport to gp racing but I can't see it working for the simple reason that the level of racing in supersport isn't as high. I'd bet you'd find it difficult to find riders at the same level as Pedrosa or Stoner in a supersport championship. I'm not saying for one second that there aren't guys just as talented racing in supersport, what I am saying is they won't be fast enough yet.
What if they were to ditch superbikes, increase the HP of the supersports bike and have it replace superbikes? I've heard alot about supersports bikes being very similar to GP bikes in terms of cornering and it would also help the young talents progress into motogp aswell.
It's an interesting idea about guys going straight from supersport to gp racing but I can't see it working for the simple reason that the level of racing in supersport isn't as high. I'd bet you'd find it difficult to find riders at the same level as Pedrosa or Stoner in a supersport championship. I'm not saying for one second that there aren't guys just as talented racing in supersport, what I am saying is they won't be fast enough yet.
What if they were to ditch superbikes, increase the HP of the supersports bike and have it replace superbikes? I've heard alot about supersports bikes being very similar to GP bikes in terms of cornering and it would also help the young talents progress into motogp aswell.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capirex @ Sep 3 2006, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Some big HQ images from the 800cc bikes tested at brno. 10 megabytes in a zip file. Before extracting rename it to "brno.zip".
http://ultrashare.net/hosting/fl/33c9fe9d28/Man those are great pics, thanks.
http://ultrashare.net/hosting/fl/33c9fe9d28/Man those are great pics, thanks.
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If you all goover to www.superbikeplanet.com and listen to their "soupkast" their own podcast show they have an interview with Rich Oliver.
Oliver is a very talented racer "back in the day" that raced every bike imaginable and was very good at it. he made his name here in the AMA as a 250 rider that was top-notch.
In the interview he talked about 250 style making a resurgence in MotoGP. He explains the details of it and blah blah blah all the stuff we have been talking about. Go check it out.
Now, time for my opinion. With the bikes being lighter and traction control and all that stuff coming in has brought out the emphasis of the 250style craft coming into play. It does not mean a TALENTED superbike rider can't make the leap to the big leagues.
Here I come to save the day for the Americans. If 500's were so much more nimble than Superbikes and lighter and all that. Then how did the American Superbike riders kick so much ... back in the day?? Because they were TALENTED damnit!!
I thought Barros was going to win at least a few races this year because he had a very SBK style with the late breaking and such. But he hasn't (I think its machinery and inexperience).
Let the 250 class be the feeder class! All the talents will show themselves no matter what bike they are on. hayden has ridden 250 bikes in the past but he was mostly a SBK guy, and he is winning the championship! Although his style has changed he still backs it in.
The only style that matters is the kickass style, and that my friends only the true talents have.
Off the podium (done rambling)
Have a nice day.
Hector
Oliver is a very talented racer "back in the day" that raced every bike imaginable and was very good at it. he made his name here in the AMA as a 250 rider that was top-notch.
In the interview he talked about 250 style making a resurgence in MotoGP. He explains the details of it and blah blah blah all the stuff we have been talking about. Go check it out.
Now, time for my opinion. With the bikes being lighter and traction control and all that stuff coming in has brought out the emphasis of the 250style craft coming into play. It does not mean a TALENTED superbike rider can't make the leap to the big leagues.
Here I come to save the day for the Americans. If 500's were so much more nimble than Superbikes and lighter and all that. Then how did the American Superbike riders kick so much ... back in the day?? Because they were TALENTED damnit!!
I thought Barros was going to win at least a few races this year because he had a very SBK style with the late breaking and such. But he hasn't (I think its machinery and inexperience).
Let the 250 class be the feeder class! All the talents will show themselves no matter what bike they are on. hayden has ridden 250 bikes in the past but he was mostly a SBK guy, and he is winning the championship! Although his style has changed he still backs it in.
The only style that matters is the kickass style, and that my friends only the true talents have.
Off the podium (done rambling)
Have a nice day.
Hector
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Sep 4 2006, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here I come to save the day for the Americans. If 500's were so much more nimble than Superbikes and lighter and all that. Then how did the American Superbike riders kick so much ... back in the day?? Because they were TALENTED damnit!!
I allways thought they were dirt track riders and that they brought with them a unique riding style that fited the 500's of that time.
I allways thought they were dirt track riders and that they brought with them a unique riding style that fited the 500's of that time.
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You are right. The way they rode the bike fit the bike in a better way. But the fact that i was making is that pepole always say the MotoGP bikes are lighter and nimbler than Superbikes and I was pointing out the fact that Superbike riders can make the transition to lighter nimbler bikes.
Although, the dirt tracker style fit very well indeed.
Also, look at the age that these riders came in to racing. They were younger then this recent batch of failed SBK transfer attempts. Bayliss, Hodgson, Edwards, they are all veterans of racing compared to the younger guys like Chris the V, Hopkins, Hayden, who had Superbike experience and are adapting while the older ones couldn't.
Although, the dirt tracker style fit very well indeed.
Also, look at the age that these riders came in to racing. They were younger then this recent batch of failed SBK transfer attempts. Bayliss, Hodgson, Edwards, they are all veterans of racing compared to the younger guys like Chris the V, Hopkins, Hayden, who had Superbike experience and are adapting while the older ones couldn't.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Sep 5 2006, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's an interesting idea about guys going straight from supersport to gp racing but I can't see it working for the simple reason that the level of racing in supersport isn't as high. I'd bet you'd find it difficult to find riders at the same level as Pedrosa or Stoner in a supersport championship. I'm not saying for one second that there aren't guys just as talented racing in supersport, what I am saying is they won't be fast enough yet.
Good point, skid, I agree Supersport isn`t as competitive, and that`s probably a big reason riders can`t make the jump. Even if they`re top notch guys like Charpentier, you don`t know what they`re gonna be like on a grid full of experienced, talented riders riding competitive, and really really fast bikes. I was just wondering about the whole supersport thing, as usual, appreciate your input.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 5 2006, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I allways thought they were dirt track riders and that they brought with them a unique riding style that fited the 500's of that time.
No denying guys like Lawson, Schwantz and Rainey had talent coming outta their ... as well though.
Good point, skid, I agree Supersport isn`t as competitive, and that`s probably a big reason riders can`t make the jump. Even if they`re top notch guys like Charpentier, you don`t know what they`re gonna be like on a grid full of experienced, talented riders riding competitive, and really really fast bikes. I was just wondering about the whole supersport thing, as usual, appreciate your input.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Sep 5 2006, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I allways thought they were dirt track riders and that they brought with them a unique riding style that fited the 500's of that time.
No denying guys like Lawson, Schwantz and Rainey had talent coming outta their ... as well though.
Austin
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One thing that helped the American dirt trackers in the 70s, 80s and early 90s was tire development was ..... The rubbers back then offered very little in the way of traction so having a rear wheel steering style really aided riders. As the tires improved, traction did as well so spinning up the rear and sliding was a major hindrance to going fast, thus we see a more controlled style like those of Max Biaggi and Dani Pedrosa. Just my two cents.
Yeah, tyres were ...., suspension was .... and gp bikes were nasty, peaky, spit you off in a second, animals witha useable power band of about 1000 rpm. Once you Yankess realised that you could hang the tail out and square off a lot of turns like in dirt trackin, the smooth 80-125-250-350 style of the europeans didn't cut it. Oh and the fact that Roberts, Lawson & Co we're talented kinda helped. Good points guys.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Sep 5 2006, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As the tires improved, traction did as well so spinning up the rear and sliding was a major hindrance to going fast, thus we see a more controlled style like those of Max Biaggi and Dani Pedrosa.Funny too that, at first that was the general way of thinking, keep the bike in line to conserve the rear tyre, now a certain amount of spin will preserve the tyre even more. Remember McCoy always on the soft rubber, but hangin it out he'd still have a tyre at the end of a race. A spinning tyre doesn't get as hot as one gripping the ashphalt. Current traction control systems let the tyre spin just a little.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ooost @ Sep 5 2006, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As the tires improved, traction did as well so spinning up the rear and sliding was a major hindrance to going fast, thus we see a more controlled style like those of Max Biaggi and Dani Pedrosa.Funny too that, at first that was the general way of thinking, keep the bike in line to conserve the rear tyre, now a certain amount of spin will preserve the tyre even more. Remember McCoy always on the soft rubber, but hangin it out he'd still have a tyre at the end of a race. A spinning tyre doesn't get as hot as one gripping the ashphalt. Current traction control systems let the tyre spin just a little.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Sep 5 2006, 08:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good point, skid, I agree Supersport isn`t as competitive, and that`s probably a big reason riders can`t make the jump. It's not that supersport ain't competetive Richo, it's fiercely competetive. If you miss a gear in a supersport race, you'll have 10 guys crawling all over you. That's one of the reasons it's a great apprenticeship for younger riders. 250 is just more refined in that you have to even more precise on a 250 than on a 600.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Sep 4 2006, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The only style that matters is the kickass style, and that my friends only the true talents have.
Have a nice day.
HectorHector, whats up? talkin about contracts and stuff, you seem to got an ear to the ground, right. On the subject of new bikes for '07, we know that Yamaha have another straight 4, Ducati have the V4, probably safe to say that kawasaki and Suzuki will stay with what they've got, any news or talk of what Honda have got? does anybody know what the big H are up to?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Sep 4 2006, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The only style that matters is the kickass style, and that my friends only the true talents have.
Have a nice day.
HectorHector, whats up? talkin about contracts and stuff, you seem to got an ear to the ground, right. On the subject of new bikes for '07, we know that Yamaha have another straight 4, Ducati have the V4, probably safe to say that kawasaki and Suzuki will stay with what they've got, any news or talk of what Honda have got? does anybody know what the big H are up to?
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Ask yourself these questions:
What is the hardest to engineer? Hardest to work? Weirdest configuration allowed? Most unconventional engine design? Which one will show off Honda's engineering prowess??
That's the one Honda will use.
To be honest with you no one knows what it will be. It is highly rumored to be a 3 cylinder though.
What is the hardest to engineer? Hardest to work? Weirdest configuration allowed? Most unconventional engine design? Which one will show off Honda's engineering prowess??
That's the one Honda will use.
To be honest with you no one knows what it will be. It is highly rumored to be a 3 cylinder though.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Sep 6 2006, 06:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ask yourself these questions:
What is the hardest to engineer? Hardest to work? Weirdest configuration allowed? Most unconventional engine design? Which one will show off Honda's engineering prowess??
That's the one Honda will use.
In a nutshell, xB. If you`ve got it, flaunt it.... .......s are just rubbing it in
What is the hardest to engineer? Hardest to work? Weirdest configuration allowed? Most unconventional engine design? Which one will show off Honda's engineering prowess??
That's the one Honda will use.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Sep 4 2006, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's an interesting idea about guys going straight from supersport to gp racing but I can't see it working for the simple reason that the level of racing in supersport isn't as high. I'd bet you'd find it difficult to find riders at the same level as Pedrosa or Stoner in a supersport championship.
andrew pitt went strait from wss champ to gp's. he was'nt to impressive. 1 example. maybe not the best, but 1 non the less.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Sep 4 2006, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hayden has ridden 250 bikes in the past
i'm doubting this statement. i don't ever remember hayden on a 250. edwards your thinkin of maybe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Sep 4 2006, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thought Barros was going to win at least a few races this year because he had a very SBK style with the late breaking and such. But he hasn't (I think its machinery and inexperience).
i don't think" inexperience" fit's alex barros resume.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Sep 5 2006, 02:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No denying guys like Lawson, Schwantz and Rainey had talent coming outta their ... as well though.
i would love to see what these guy's, in their prime, could do on today's machinery. do u think kev s could make a winner outa the gsvr?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Sep 5 2006, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is highly rumored to be a 3 cylinder though.
i've also heard another v5. but that seems doubtful.
andrew pitt went strait from wss champ to gp's. he was'nt to impressive. 1 example. maybe not the best, but 1 non the less.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Sep 4 2006, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hayden has ridden 250 bikes in the past
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Sep 4 2006, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thought Barros was going to win at least a few races this year because he had a very SBK style with the late breaking and such. But he hasn't (I think its machinery and inexperience).
i don't think" inexperience" fit's alex barros resume.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Sep 5 2006, 02:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No denying guys like Lawson, Schwantz and Rainey had talent coming outta their ... as well though.
i would love to see what these guy's, in their prime, could do on today's machinery. do u think kev s could make a winner outa the gsvr?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xB Rida @ Sep 5 2006, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is highly rumored to be a 3 cylinder though.
i've also heard another v5. but that seems doubtful.
