MotoGP engines

Why don't teams experiment with a Wankel rotary engines?

I'll admit, until yesterday when I was lamenting the 800cc displacement rule and the number of engine configurations it has elimated or will eliminate, I never stopped to think about a rotary engine in a motorcycle.

After a few hours of research I can't understand why they aren't perfect for motorcycles (racing prototypes and production machines). They have no valves, so no valve speed/loss problems and no ($600) valve adjustments. They have far fewer moving parts and no reciprocating pistons. They make more power for a given displacement size. The are lighter. They have a smaller frontal area. They don't have an empty stroke. They don't vibrate as much.

I know rotary has some huge drawbacks, mainly fuel consumption (caused by poor combustion efficiency) and emissions problems, but Mazda has already solved the emissions trouble. And if 400 hp per liter is attainable a 600cc Wankel will produce 240 hp which should ease a lot of fuel concerns for prototype racing applications.

Furthermore, gas in the U.S. is $3 per gallon and valve adjustments run $600 every 6,000 miles. If you were on a crappy sport bike that only managed 30mpg fuel and valve adjustments would cost the same ($.10 per mile). I would gladly fork over 20% more for gas to miss out on the valve adjustments.

What's the deal? No money to develop? No interest in rotary technology? Am I missing something? Are they banned and I don't know about it?

because the cyclider where the otto cycle takes place (suck ,squeeze, bang, blow ) is an Epitrochoid shape ( fat figure of 8 ) it will always have the cool mixture charge in the same part and the hot exhaust in another part, so the hot part of the engine will never be cooled by the fresh charge like a normal engine. this will cause fatigue problems i think.)
is is a pitty that other types of engines are not used as it is prototype racing, what about a gas turbine bike

Whats wrong with Wankel Rotary engines? The name.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Aug 21 2007, 02:16 PM) [snapback]86089[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Whats wrong with Wankel Rotary engines? The name.

Im pretty sure Suzuki and Norton made rotary powered bikes.
There light weight and simplicity would make them ideal motorcycle engines.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Aug 21 2007, 10:47 AM) [snapback]86053[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
because the cyclider where the otto cycle takes place (suck ,squeeze, bang, blow ) is an Epitrochoid shape ( fat figure of 8 ) it will always have the cool mixture charge in the same part and the hot exhaust in another part, so the hot part of the engine will never be cooled by the fresh charge like a normal engine. this will cause fatigue problems i think.)
is is a pitty that other types of engines are not used as it is prototype racing, what about a gas turbine bike

I heard steam engines were coming back into fashion.......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Aug 21 2007, 01:47 AM) [snapback]86053[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
because the cyclider where the otto cycle takes place (suck ,squeeze, bang, blow ) is an Epitrochoid shape ( fat figure of 8 ) it will always have the cool mixture charge in the same part and the hot exhaust in another part, so the hot part of the engine will never be cooled by the fresh charge like a normal engine. this will cause fatigue problems i think.)
is is a pitty that other types of engines are not used as it is prototype racing, what about a gas turbine bike


Rog's perfect engine AND woman!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alex29 @ Aug 21 2007, 06:17 AM) [snapback]86093[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Im pretty sure Suzuki and Norton made rotary powered bikes.
There light weight and simplicity would make them ideal motorcycle engines.

they did indeed in the late 70s the zook was called the RE5, mazda still use it in there rx range
link
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Aug 21 2007, 10:06 AM) [snapback]86121[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rog's perfect engine AND woman!

Nortons defo had rotarty engines.

My old man used to be a Cop and he had a Norton Police bike with a rotary engine. His party piece was starting the bike up with a 50p balancing on its edge on the tank (he such a party animal my old man ) - it would barely wobble when it fired up.

Sadly - that was about the best thing it did. "Revs for fun but a bit gutless............." were his words.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Aug 21 2007, 04:06 AM) [snapback]86121[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rog's perfect engine AND woman!

spits up coffee!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(baldylocks @ Aug 21 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]86171[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Nortons defo had rotarty engines.

My old man used to be a Cop and he had a Norton Police bike with a rotary engine. His party piece was starting the bike up with a 50p balancing on its edge on the tank (he such a party animal my old man ) - it would barely wobble when it fired up.

Sadly - that was about the best thing it did. "Revs for fun but a bit gutless............." were his words.

ah, you were a coppers kid to then !

didn't rocket ron haslam used to race the rotary norton many moons ago.

[attachmentid=2158]

yes rog, those old nortons were .... hot and won a heap of races. Trevor nation, Terry Rymer, Robert Dunlop, Mark Farmer, Ron Haslam, Steve Hislop and Ian Simpson all rode them. I saw Nation, Dunlop, Haslam and Farmer race them when I was a kid and man they howled.. The FIM ruled them as illegal for GP's. It was a rotary triple. According to Norton the engine was 599cc but the FIM initially concluded it was a 1796cc, insisting that this was it's intake in one turn of the crank. It wasn't permitted to race in GP's but the FIM did relent and declered it as a 999cc motor as a concesion which permitted the JPS team to compete in more races. Interesting history, it's a pity Norton ran out of money.

http://www.jpsnorton.co.uk/theteam.asp

i don't know how they work out the volume of a rotary engine but isn't the Mazda RX8 officially a 1300cc but goes like the Millenium Falcon ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(baldylocks @ Aug 23 2007, 12:42 PM) [snapback]86613[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i don't know how they work out the volume of a rotary engine but isn't the Mazda RX8 officially a 1300cc but goes like the Millenium Falcon ?



WHAT THE HELL IS AN ALUMINUM FALCON ?!??!??!?!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(drumfu @ Aug 23 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]86619[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
WHAT THE HELL IS AN ALUMINUM FALCON ?!??!??!?!

that's millenium & surly your joking?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frosty58 @ Aug 23 2007, 01:28 PM) [snapback]86621[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
that's millenium & surly your joking?


red text = link

the force is weak with this one!

haha

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(baldylocks @ Aug 23 2007, 08:42 PM) [snapback]86613[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i don't know how they work out the volume of a rotary engine but isn't the Mazda RX8 officially a 1300cc but goes like the Millenium Falcon ?
Depemds on who's officiating. I've driven the 220BHP version and it doesn't drive like no 1300cc I've ever driven before and revs like hell too!

I am your father!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsraeliRacer @ Aug 21 2007, 02:16 PM) [snapback]86089[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Whats wrong with Wankel Rotary engines? The name.


No why don’t the Yamaha & Honda put the Morris Minor 1100cc engine of the 1960's and configure it to 800cc's...oh sorry with “fuel injection!!!”...now that would be a winner!!!

The ...... would be to thirsty for the fuel consumption of the 21st century motoGP rules!!!..Just have a look at the Mazda RX8...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(drumfu @ Aug 24 2007, 06:25 AM) [snapback]86619[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
WHAT THE HELL IS AN ALUMINUM FALCON ?!??!??!?!


What the hell is an aluminium falcon????...Don’t Really Know????....Well from an aussie perspective....A Falcon is an Australian legend car...you know the “Falcon GT HO...Phase 1, 2 3, & 4”...or the latest Falcon GT...etc etc....but the aluminium part I don’t know??? As the Falcon hasn’t got one bit of alloy on it!!!...It’s got me stumped!!!