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Moto GP Teruel 2020

B

Bern1

Joined Nov 2015
1K Posts | 980+
On the edge in California
Ok, ahead of tomorrow's race a new thread this week. Of course it's the same track....what's changed in a week? Taking what we can from such a bizarre season, it's interesting to see which teams and riders make the most of these back to back venues.....and who doesn't.

This week it looks like Nakagami and Marquez the younger... Nakagami said a while back that he was consciously imitating what MM was doing, if I'm not mistaken. Seems to be working for him. Credit to Alex Marquez for seemingly methodically advancing his level.

Those who don't really seem to have made any advances so far....Ducati glaringly in the lead here. Why? It's all of them so.....what? Team decisions....less money coming next year?

Fabs, one day up, one day down. It seems to me he betrays his youth by being so frank about following Mir around. I can't see how that helps him. He should shut up and ride faster, with some consistency....
 
Bern1 said:
Ok, ahead of tomorrow's race a new thread this week. Of course it's the same track....what's changed in a week? Taking what we can from such a bizarre season, it's interesting to see which teams and riders make the most of these back to back venues.....and who doesn't.

This week it looks like Nakagami and Marquez the younger... Nakagami said a while back that he was consciously imitating what MM was doing, if I'm not mistaken. Seems to be working for him. Credit to Alex Marquez for seemingly methodically advancing his level.

Those who don't really seem to have made any advances so far....Ducati glaringly in the lead here. Why? It's all of them so.....what? Team decisions....less money coming next year?

Fabs, one day up, one day down. It seems to me he betrays his youth by being so frank about following Mir around. I can't see how that helps him. He should shut up and ride faster, with some consistency....
Click to expand...

Back in the mid '80s the Japanese started building guitars for Fender and Ameri-centric types were rejecting these guitars. I bought my Telecaster in '88 for $380.00. Turned out the Japanese were making Fenders MUCH better than Americans ever made them. I've had offers on my Tele as high as $4,000.00.

If Japanese riders make that leap, copy and improve upon guys like Marquez, the Spaniards are going to be in deep .....
 
Bern1 said:
Ok, ahead of tomorrow's race a new thread this week. Of course it's the same track....what's changed in a week? Taking what we can from such a bizarre season, it's interesting to see which teams and riders make the most of these back to back venues.....and who doesn't.

This week it looks like Nakagami and Marquez the younger... Nakagami said a while back that he was consciously imitating what MM was doing, if I'm not mistaken. Seems to be working for him. Credit to Alex Marquez for seemingly methodically advancing his level.

Those who don't really seem to have made any advances so far....Ducati glaringly in the lead here. Why? It's all of them so.....what? Team decisions....less money coming next year?

Fabs, one day up, one day down. It seems to me he betrays his youth by being so frank about following Mir around. I can't see how that helps him. He should shut up and ride faster, with some consistency....
Click to expand...

As birdman, the poster on here who is closest to being a bike racing sage imo, says, I am sure FQ is trying to be consistent, as is every other rider, it is just very difficult to be so with these current bikes operating under the current bike equalising regulations and on the current tyres, which as misfit has recently said may have intra batch variation, as well as being far from suited to all riders on all bikes on all tracks. Only the greats have managed to be on or close to the podium every week even on bad days and on tracks not suited to them, and many of them had factory bike advantages and probably also not uncommonly had bespoke tyres.

I reckon MM would be top 5 every race on any bike except an Aprilia, but that is a testament to him rather than the other riders being hacks.
 
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This season just keeps on giving. Top ride from morbidelli. Zarco gets a mention. Was shattered for aleix, when his aprilia gave up. He was doing well. Suzuki's are consistently there. Could be a shoot out between rins and mir. I'm backing Joan.
 
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Barbedwirebikerr said:
This season just keeps on giving. Top ride from morbidelli. Zarco gets a mention. Was shattered for aleix, when his aprilia gave up. He was doing well. Suzuki's are consistently there. Could be a shoot out between rins and mir. I'm backing Joan.
Click to expand...

I can just imagine Michelin giggling when they, yet again, make a critical tweak to the tyre compound/construction that reshuffles the balance of power come the last three races.

Only Suzuki seems to have managed a modicum of consistence come race day.

Oh Franco, do keep it up. What a disciplined ride to the win... :spin: 7sec faster than the ride to last weekend's win! I missed the race start thanks to the confusion of the DST switchover. When I didn't see Nakagami on the list I couldn't believe it, but after calming down, easily could. Too much pressure.... he let it get to him.

Dovi and FQ still floundering in the middle pack trying to keep a championship charge going in some sort of a way. FQ says the next tracks are great form him and Yamaha. This may be the usual but this season has been anything else but the usual. It's now a matter of who maximises and not messes up when they have a 'good thing' going on a race weekend.
 
Who can remember the last time the winner was decided at the last race? I mean other than 2006.
 
misfit said:
I can just imagine Michelin giggling when they, yet again, make a critical tweak to the tyre compound/construction that reshuffles the balance of power come the last three races.
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I'm pretty sure (like 95% sure), that the tyre allocation is decided before the season even begins - So the tyres for the next three races (with the exception of Portugal) have been in containers for a number of months now...
 
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Macca said:
I'm pretty sure (like 95% sure), that the tyre allocation is decided before the season even begins - So the tyres for the next three races (with the exception of Portugal) have been in containers for a number of months now...
Click to expand...

You're right. I see that they've instituted this since 2018!
 
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With the "clear favorite" changing from week to week and the sheer number of riders still in the running for the championship, the whole thing starts to feel less than competition and more like a Bingo lottery. Anyone have B11?
 
Keshav said:
With the "clear favorite" changing from week to week and the sheer number of riders still in the running for the championship, the whole thing starts to feel less than competition and more like a Bingo lottery. Anyone have B11?
Click to expand...

Have been on Mir for a while and see no reason to change. Rins is probably faster on the same bike now he is healthy, but just about needs a DNF from Mir, otherwise even if he wins every remaining race he is probably too far behind.
 
Keshav said:
With the "clear favorite" changing from week to week and the sheer number of riders still in the running for the championship, the whole thing starts to feel less than competition and more like a Bingo lottery. Anyone have B11?
Click to expand...

As a purist of sorts, I do much prefer the justice behind success based on the entire package, i.e., the bike, the rider, and the team/engineers around the river working to extract maximum performance come each race weekend. When I see performance swings of the magnitude that we're witnessing this season, I do wonder if the bike/team aspect of the competition is being compromised or 'unjustly' taken out of the equation. Teams seem to find it difficult to build on performance from circuit to circuit.

Yes, the tyres are the same for everyone, but it does seem that there's a way too significant portion of the Michelin tyre performance from track to track and weekend to weekend that's out of the hands of the teams/engineers. They are unable to find their way and are struggling to get results, or suddenly, they 'luck' their way into performance, with the usual wild acclaim of how incredible they were. But then what of them when they're at the back next weekend?? Gone this year, is the usual story of teams improving over the season, with others 'losing' their way during the season as a result of their not improving as much or failing to improve.

What's been saving the entertainment for me is that unlike F1 2012, the riders this year still have to deliver to get their results. Nakagami is a prime example in that last race he had a podium, at the minimum, in the palm of his hand and yet, he threw it away after the first two corners.

I'm seriously enjoying the lottery since it gives riders/teams opportunities they wouldn't normally have and it's been great entertainment watching how they handle it. Some shine and capitalise, while others don't and crumble under the pressure of the opportunity. It's great watching some taking their time and managing their races, while others take off at the front, only to fade a little over half distance.
 
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I’m a purist of sorts myself. Somehow this idea of Michelin tires, as crappy as they seem to be, being the source of teams seesawing up and down in finishing order, seems far fetched to me.

I think it is rather the result of an entire crop of new riders having come to the premier class in a huge group more or less at the same time and having to deal with pressures of all kinds. Without Marquez, Lorenzo or any other former or current champion of the class on the grid, there is a void that demands to be filled. It’s just that nobody really capable has come forward yet.

I think it will take another season to see which of these guys will become challengers and which will be mid pack guys picking up some points here and there, with an occasional outing where things go their way.

Same as it ever was.
 
Bern1 said:
I’m a purist of sorts myself. Somehow this idea of Michelin tires, as crappy as they seem to be, being the source of teams seesawing up and down in finishing order, seems far fetched to me.

I think it is rather the result of an entire crop of new riders having come to the premier class in a huge group more or less at the same time and having to deal with pressures of all kinds. Without Marquez, Lorenzo or any other former or current champion of the class on the grid, there is a void that demands to be filled. It’s just that nobody really capable has come forward yet.

I think it will take another season to see which of these guys will become challengers and which will be mid pack guys picking up some points here and there, with an occasional outing where things go their way.

Same as it ever was.
Click to expand...
I just think there is more competitive bikes than there has ever been before. There’s no longer 4 bikes that are head and shoulders above every other bike on the grid.

We were also very lucky to have Stoner, Rossi, Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Marquez at the same time. How much of their consistency (outside of Marquez and Stoner) was due to being on one of the 4 bikes. Rossi’s and Lorenzo’s results probably point to their bikes (And lack of parity) being a huge factor in their results. You could probably even consider Pedrosa’s results in his final year as further proof.
 
Ok, probably true in the twilight of the internal combustion engine. There is definitely a point at which more pure power is useless. Now it comes down to making the bike more tractable and better handling than the other team’s bike, for your rider. Even there, it seems it’s always kind of been like that: making the characteristics of your bike fit the rider(s) on your team. Perhaps all the suspension parameters have been juggled around already every which way.....or so they think. Kind of reminds me how every once in a while somebody says all the combinations of notes have been used up in music. Then along comes......something new.

Now, after Marquez, who is going to show up with something new? I mean everybody is dragging their shoulders now, aren’t they?
 
Bern1 said:
I’m a purist of sorts myself. Somehow this idea of Michelin tires, as crappy as they seem to be, being the source of teams seesawing up and down in finishing order, seems far fetched to me.

I think it is rather the result of an entire crop of new riders having come to the premier class in a huge group more or less at the same time and having to deal with pressures of all kinds. Without Marquez, Lorenzo or any other former or current champion of the class on the grid, there is a void that demands to be filled. It’s just that nobody really capable has come forward yet.

I think it will take another season to see which of these guys will become challengers and which will be mid pack guys picking up some points here and there, with an occasional outing where things go their way.

Same as it ever was.
Click to expand...

As I said before, I've witnessed the seesaw phenomenon before, i.e., in F1 2012 and after much protest on the lottery effect created by their tyre compounds and construction, Michelin changed the tyres, and although it was the same change for all the teams, a more stable and predictable championship reasserted itself. The thing is that F1 didn't have all the current variables to shift the blame/focus. All the F1 teams and drivers were unchanged. Only the tyres, so it was very clear then.

FQ and Dovi were far more stable and predictable challengers last year. Marc Marquez expressed his surprise that they haven't been more consistent. Yes, Dovi/Ducati will have their bogey weekend here and there, but I knew something was up not at all surprised when Dovi expressed his bewilderment with the current situation, a testimony I had heard before.

I think the riders on the current grid are getting the flack for shoddy and difficult Michelin rubber, while Marc, who lest we forget, crashed twice in the opening race trying to assert his usual dominance, is now enjoying the apparent legend of what the championship would have been like if he were indeed riding without injury. The benchmark is missing so Michelin gets off and the riders are without a leader which they need to lead the way to consistency.... right!!! :disgust: They deserve a lot more credit than that.

I guess we will never know, will we?
 
Yes. I wish there was an objective scientific method to definitively prove Michelin's contribution to all the inconsistency.


I love having my theories confirmed.:)
 
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