Mick Doohan talks about Stoner's chances with Honda

BarryMachine · Apr 10, 2011

chopperman said:
he did not as he was in front before "cutting the corner" !

whilst out of control and totally missing the braking point for the track

Rossi was just plain lucky Stoner saved his arse from hitting the outside wall .......

Gaz · Apr 10, 2011

chopperman said:
It is against the rules but only if you gained an advantage in possition, whiuch he did not as he was in front before "cutting the corner" !

Actually Rog, if I remember it correctly the rules do not state that an advantage gained is identified as a position gained (ie. an overtake), just that a rider should not gain an 'unfair advantage' as the result of an offtrack excursion etc (paraphrasing a bit admittedly). The reason for this wording (as explained to me) is that you must have a rule that stops a leading rider gaining time by short cutting a circuit and is particularly relevant at chicanes.

The intent of the rule is clear, no advantage should or must be gained by a rider as the result of an off track excursion.

I have not seen it written anywhere (not to say it isn't as I do not have access to the FIM book) that an advantage is adjudged to be a position change.

Gaz

Talpa · Apr 10, 2011

Gaz said:
Actually Rog, if I remember it correctly the rules do not state that an advantage gained is identified as a position gained (ie. an overtake), just that a rider should not gain an 'unfair advantage' as the result of an offtrack excursion etc (paraphrasing a bit admittedly). The reason for this wording (as explained to me) is that you must have a rule that stops a leading rider gaining time by short cutting a circuit and is particularly relevant at chicanes.

The intent of the rule is clear, no advantage should or must be gained by a rider as the result of an off track excursion.

I have not seen it written anywhere (not to say it isn't as I do not have access to the FIM book) that an advantage is adjudged to be a position change.

Gaz

Of course in light of the circumstances on that day, the officials saw it differently. Somehow I don't think Rossi thought he'd gain an advantage so consequently planned to hit the dirt at the corkscrew. The rules are in place for circuits that have unique TARMAC run-off characteristics which can short-cut the intended racetrack-ie Monza, San Marino, Catalunya, when a rider takes the run-off-they are expected to re-join the racing circuit with no place advantage gained.

A meter on to the dirt at the apex certainly doesn't constitute a short cut in Road racing, and Rossi had already made the pass, not gained a place or advantage from the excursion- if anything he certainly lost ground, so no action was taken.

If Rossi were to be Punished for leaving the circuit then not relinquishing a place on that day, then Stoner should have been too.......

Mental Anarchist · Apr 11, 2011

michaelm said:
It seems likely that if valentino shot casey you would post about your concern that he might have risked lead poisoning when he loaded the gun.

No, it would be suggested that Stoner should be punished for stealing the bullet.

Keshav · Apr 11, 2011

Talpa said:
Of course in light of the circumstances on that day, the officials saw it differently. Somehow I don't think Rossi thought he'd gain an advantage so consequently planned to hit the dirt at the corkscrew. The rules are in place for circuits that have unique TARMAC run-off characteristics which can short-cut the intended racetrack-ie Monza, San Marino, Catalunya, when a rider takes the run-off-they are expected to re-join the racing circuit with no place advantage gained.

A meter on to the dirt at the apex certainly doesn't constitute a short cut in Road racing, and Rossi had already made the pass, not gained a place or advantage from the excursion- if anything he certainly lost ground, so no action was taken.

If Rossi were to be Punished for leaving the circuit then not relinquishing a place on that day, then Stoner should have been too.......

Not an advantage in terms of inches, or feet per se. But the fact remains - he was only able to contemplate making that desperate pass stick

- by leaving the designated course. Had Rossi not done so - he'd have crashed and burned. He's a great rider etc etc... but even he

is not beyond the laws of physics.

stiefel · Apr 11, 2011

Keshav said:
Rossi ... is not beyond the laws of physics.

You hater!

LittleEgg · Apr 11, 2011

All this laguna talk is moot.....

That 5 inches off the track crap happened very early in the battle. Subsequently the race as a whole was a masterclass from rossi, and stoner dropped his bike at 2 mph after losing his cool, due to the racing line constantly and intelligently being cut off for many laps by rossi.

The "shortcut" is just something that the haters use to try and take away from what was an amazing ride.

And in vein.

Dont argue with rossi fans about rules, take it up with the governing body who never saw an issue, or live TV commentators(who are most certainly not all rossi fans) who never once mentioned or referred to the "shortcut" the whole time the race was taking place.

Funny if its that big a deal that nobody, including casey himself, really took issue with it.....casey instead whined about the close racing and complained that "i was nearly in the gravel more than once".

Funny that.

Its just boner bitterness pure and simple.

Look here for a little class:

http://www.caseystoner.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1226&start=45

djm · Apr 11, 2011

stiefel said:
You hater!

Keshav · Apr 11, 2011

Rob said:
All this laguna talk is moot.....

That 5 inches off the track crap happened very early in the battle. Subsequently the race as a whole was a masterclass from rossi, and stoner dropped his bike at 2 mph after losing his cool, due to the racing line constantly and intelligently being cut off for many laps by rossi.

Another perfectly nonsensical distinction. How early Rossi went out of control and

used a diversion from the designated course to permit him to take an otherwise impossible line - is wholly irrelevant.

That's like saying it's okay to rob a bank as long as he does so before the lunch-hour rush.

michaelm · Apr 11, 2011

My opinion remains the same.

Rossi rode a brilliant overall tactical race and deserved victory.

The corkscrew off -track excursion would in no way constitute a legitimate line/move if it was deliberate, but it seems highly unlikely it was deliberate, particularly since the usual result on a bike would be the bike going down, which still may have happened if stoner hadn't reacted.

dwoodhouse · Apr 11, 2011

michaelm said:
My opinion remains the same.

Rossi rode a brilliant overall tactical race and deesrved victory.

The corkscrew off -track excursion would in no way constitute a legitimate line/move if it was deliberate, but it seems highly unlikely it was deliberate, particularly since the usual result on a bike would be the bike going down, which still may have happened if stoner hadn't reacted.

That's a fair assessment Michael, you must be cooling down. Good to see.

LittleEgg · Apr 12, 2011

michaelm said:
My opinion remains the same.

Rossi rode a brilliant overall tactical race and deserved victory.

The corkscrew off -track excursion would in no way constitute a legitimate line/move if it was deliberate, but it seems highly unlikely it was deliberate, particularly since the usual result on a bike would be the bike going down, which still may have happened if stoner hadn't reacted.

Exactly this.

Suggesting it was deliberate would be absolutely crazy.

Keshav said:
Another perfectly nonsensical distinction. How early Rossi went out of control and

used a diversion from the designated course to permit him to take an otherwise impossible line - is wholly irrelevant.

That's like saying it's okay to rob a bank as long as he does so before the lunch-hour rush.

Like the perfectly nonsensical assumtion that it was a deliberate move at that speed to put your bike on gravel to get ahead....

Keshav · Apr 12, 2011

Rob said:
Exactly this.

Suggesting it was deliberate would be absolutely crazy.

Like the perfectly nonsensical assumtion that it was a deliberate move at that speed to put your bike on gravel to get ahead....

I say, "Out of control" and you twist that to mean "deliberate". This is what the yellow horde do.

They take a reasonable statement and say it's absurd in hopes that if enough Rossi-fans chime in

to agree - the nature of reality will be transformed. You must have like Orwell's 1984; the whole

facist mind-set that believes if enough people deny the nature of reality - it will be changed.

Your constant attempts to revise reality don't fool anyone.

Jumkie · Apr 12, 2011

Keshav said:
I say, "Out of control" and you twist that to mean "deliberate". This is what the yellow horde do.

The take a reasonable statement and say it's absurd in hopes that if enough Rossi-fans chime in

to agree - the nature of reality will be transformed. You must have like Orwell's 1984; the whole

facist mind-set that believes if enough people deny the nature of reality - it will be changed.

Your constant attempts to revise reality don't fool anyone.

I'd like to reply using somebody else's words:

Geonerd said:
Kesh, you have to realize that "You can't process Rob with a normal brain."

Keshav · Apr 12, 2011

Rob said:
Exactly this.

Suggesting it was deliberate would be absolutely crazy.

Like the perfectly nonsensical assumtion that it was a deliberate move at that speed to put your bike on gravel to get ahead....

As always when you have no point to make - you pretend to make one by putting words in the mouths of people who've never

said them. I can do the same. Here... watch.

Hey Rob stop telling us that liking Stoner gives you AIDs!

See - I can just make up ........ distractions like you and J4 all day. But it doesn't win any debates.

BTW the image below is available in Hi-Def file size suitable for framing or use as a screensaver.

LittleEgg · Apr 13, 2011

So by claiming it was only "out of control" and not "deliberate", you are basically aknowledging that the pass was fair.....and fair(although i cant be arsed to check) doesnt seem a likely argument from you, the other haters, and especially not chunkie at that time.

If all the boners were agruing that the 2008 laguna pass wasnt fair(which is what i am assuming from people still harping on about it), then this must surely mean because you considered it a deliberate shortcut?

If you have always considered it a fair, non deliberate move...then you have my apology, and we agree.

.......

Rossi deserved the win.

Jumkie · Apr 13, 2011

Thanks Kesh. Check out my new screen saver. Click on the pic to zoom.

11824:Screen saver.png]

LittleEgg · Apr 13, 2011

Jumkie said:
Thanks Kesh. Check out my new screen saver. Click on the pic to zoom.

11824:Screen saver.png]

No reply? kthxbai!

Jumkie · Apr 13, 2011

Rob said:
No reply? kthxbai!

Did you click on my screen saver? I think you'll find it interesting.

Goatboy · Apr 13, 2011

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Ahhh Pinky

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