Marquez' troubled season start

J4rn0 · Apr 25, 2015

Problems are heaping up for MM93, now he even broke a finger in dirt track training:

https://motomatters.com/news/2015/04/25/marc_marquez_breaks_little_finger_in_tra.html

While we all wish him a prompt recovery for Jerez, it's impossible not to consider the implications of this troubled start for the World Champ. Could this be the golden occasion for some of his rivals?

And what about Honda? Pedrosa is also out, Aoyama is hopelessly slow, if really Stoner is available what are they waiting for?

HEISMAN · Apr 25, 2015

Damnit...this sucks. I want MM93 at his best when he's racing.

xx CURVE xx · Apr 25, 2015

It's just a finger he will be fine..

Keshav · Apr 25, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Problems are heaping up for MM93, now he even broke a finger in dirt track training:

https://motomatters.com/news/2015/04/25/marc_marquez_breaks_little_finger_in_tra.html

While we all wish him a prompt recovery for Jerez, it's impossible not to consider the implications of this troubled start for the World Champ. Could this be the golden occasion for some of his rivals?

And what about Honda? Pedrosa is also out, Aoyama is hopelessly slow, if really Stoner is available what are they waiting for?

Beats me. They've got nothing to lose. Having Aoyama riding around collecting date is a huge waste of money.

MigsAngel · Apr 26, 2015

xx CURVE xx said:
It's just a finger he will be fine..

I agree, this is nothing compared to what others have suffered and battled on....

Gaz · Apr 26, 2015

MigsAngel said:
I agree, this is nothing compared to what others have suffered and battled on....

Unless broken is just the descriptor and things are far worse (ie. Lorenzo PI 2012 like)

If the reports are correct I doubt that a broken little finger would be an issue as these guys will be two finger brakers and not full ham fisted so the finger is not really used at all. If however it is another finger or the damage is greater, then who knows

jyo · Apr 26, 2015

Personally, I think Marc is gonna race and do well---he's young and strong---it's gonna be good...

J4rn0 · Apr 26, 2015

Luckily for him it's not the right hand.
But the stress of riding a MotoGP machine is great, riding with pain would be difficult. He'll have to use pain killers. Then adrenaline will do the rest.
He'll be fast.
But the pont is -- this is not a good season start for him. Stronger competition, and more mistakes. Maybe he's feeling the pressure?

HEISMAN · Apr 26, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Luckily for him it's not the right hand.
But the stress of riding a MotoGP machine is great, riding with pain would be difficult. He'll have to use pain killers. Then adrenaline will do the rest.
He'll be fast.
But the pont is -- this is not a good season start for him. Stronger competition, and more mistakes. Maybe he's feeling the pressure?

The injury come from training too hard. That's pressure in my book

DavidSim · Apr 26, 2015

Gosh I'd like to see Stoner on a Honda again, just for the heck of it, I couldn't care less if he won or not.

Go Casey Go !!!

#22 · Apr 26, 2015

Stoner traditionally never went well at Jerez, so I doubt Honda would bring him in for this round, even if I'd like to see it.

RCV600RR · Apr 27, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Problems are heaping up for MM93, now he even broke a finger in dirt track training:

https://motomatters.com/news/2015/04/25/marc_marquez_breaks_little_finger_in_tra.html

While we all wish him a prompt recovery for Jerez, it's impossible not to consider the implications of this troubled start for the World Champ. Could this be the golden occasion for some of his rivals?

And what about Honda? Pedrosa is also out, Aoyama is hopelessly slow, if really Stoner is available what are they waiting for?

I assume that Honda is concerned that the reintroduction of Stoner will create an unnecessary distraction for Marquez, who must be the focus of their efforts.

J4rn0 · Apr 27, 2015

Maybe the possibility of Stoner as teammate (even if occasional) is part of the pressure Marc is facing this season...

Keshav · Apr 27, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Maybe the possibility of Stoner as teammate (even if occasional) is part of the pressure Marc is facing this season...

Sharks are eating machines. They don't get easily unmanned or discouraged. I always view MM as being the racing equivalent. I expect he's slightly irritated by the way the season has started, but he's so narrowly focused and confident that IMHO - he would find the presence of Stoner on the grid as something of a distraction and nothing more... and that's coming from a big Stoner fan. When he's back on the bike it'll be like there's blood in the water. Tho, I don't think he'll underestimate Rossi again. Would I like to see the three of them mixing it up? Hell yeah! But I'm not holding my breath.

J4rn0 · Apr 28, 2015

Keshav said:
Sharks are eating machines. They don't get easily unmanned or discouraged. I always view MM as being the racing equivalent. I expect he's slightly irritated by the way the season has started, but he's so narrowly focused and confident that IMHO - he would find the presence of Stoner on the grid as something of a distraction and nothing more... and that's coming from a big Stoner fan. When he's back on the bike it'll be like there's blood in the water. Tho, I don't think he'll underestimate Rossi again. Would I like to see the three of them mixing it up? Hell yeah! But I'm not holding my breath.

Right, but pressure is not only related to performance. Marc may be supremely confident and sure of his superior skills, but what about popularity and public attention? That's another form of pressure these famous riders feel, and it may even influence their $ income -- not as as much as performance but a good second. See how Marc always tries to praise Vale saying he's still learning from him -- the reason is that he wants to inherit his huge fan base.

Regarding Stoner, Marquez could be be less than happy that there is so much attention to his possible comeback, even if he's not so worried about having to face him on the track. Diverted media and public attention can build jealousy...

Keshav · Apr 28, 2015

J4rn0 said:
Right, but pressure is not only related to performance. Marc may be supremely confident and sure of his superior skills, but what about popularity and public attention? That's another form of pressure these famous riders feel, and it may even influence their $ income -- not as as much as performance but a good second. See how Marc always tries to praise Vale saying he's still learning from him -- the reason is that he wants to inherit his huge fan base.

Regarding Stoner, Marquez could be be less than happy that there is so much attention to his possible comeback, even if he's not so worried about having to face him on the track. Diverted media and public attention can build jealousy...

Interesting observation.

J4rn0 · Apr 29, 2015

A young phenomenal top rider unusually out of luck,
an older second rider out of it as usual,
a grumpy ex-top rider kind of willing to try his luck again
but not unconditionally welcomed,
a privateer given a full factory machine under private flag
to make up for second rider's absence,
an ex-champ now demoted to test rider given second rider's factory bike
apparently only to run test jobs during races...

That's not a script by Dorna Productions, it's Honda early 2015.

J4rn0 · Jun 1, 2015

So definitely this is more than some random bad luck for Honda and Marquez.

It seems that the Honda engine is too aggressive; but they cannot really intervene on it, since of course engines are sealed (ironically, a rule imposed by Honda themselves). They can only intervene through electronics, and that is hardly the best solution. Marquez is trying to ride over the problem, but we see that he's struggling.

Which means that neither the factory riders at Sepang, nor Stoner during his tests, realized that the 2015 Honda engine was too aggressive. Now, that Stoner doesn't mind an aggressive engine, we know; that's the risk in using Stoner as reference when developing a bike...

The others may have been induced in error because the tests take place at Sepang, where the problem would be easier to manage. But on other tracks, the problem shows its true dimension.

So now Hondas are stuck with 5 sealed engines per rider, that don't have optimal specs. Will try to tune them down with electronics workarounds and other tricks, and no doubt they'll come up with some kind of solution... Meanwhile the Yamahas (especially Lorenzo it seems) could well take off and disappear in the distance.

Jumkie · Jun 1, 2015

J4rn0 said:
So definitely this is more than some random bad luck for Honda and Marquez.

It seems that the Honda engine is too aggressive; but they cannot really intervene on it, since of course engines are sealed (ironically, a rule imposed by Honda themselves). They can only intervene through electronics, and that is hardly the best solution. Marquez is trying to ride over the problem, but we see that he's struggling.

Which means that neither the factory riders at Sepang, nor Stoner during his tests, realized that the 2015 Honda engine was too aggressive. Now, that Stoner doesn't mind an aggressive engine, we know; that's the risk in using Stoner as reference when developing a bike...

The others may have been induced in error because the tests take place at Sepang, where the problem would be easier to manage. But on other tracks, the problem shows its true dimension.

So now Hondas are stuck with 5 sealed engines per rider, that don't have optimal specs. Will try to tune them down with electronics workarounds and other tricks, and no doubt they'll come up with some kind of solution... Meanwhile the Yamahas (especially Lorenzo it seems) could well take off and disappear in the distance.

Jrno, you remind me of the pundits that talk about the sky falling when in the rare occasion Real Madrid or Barcelona lose or tie a game, that the world is in crisis. Yeah, I guess the RCV needs an entire work up, eh? Its not enough to have a fantasy league type component for component machine. Maybe they need another better striker/engine to compliment the other three world class ones they got? Or maybe another elite defender/electronics, to compliment the 8 world's best they already have, right? So, wait wait, MurderMac wouldn't be riding circles around everyone on a satellite bike (you know, because updates come so slow and all)? That's a bummer, I had already been convinced by Kropo this was the case.

Personally I don't think its all the 150 problems on the bike Marc has now cited nor Honda's supposed sloth to react with upgrades as it is this: the new tire "options" have presented a problem. Pedros was able to ride pretty good on that 'piece of ....' RCV with a healing "arm-pump" weakness. Marc should have easily been 2nd this weekend, behind Lorenzo who got the set up and tire choice to perfection. That wouldn't have been exactly crisis at HRC would it?

#22 · Jun 2, 2015

J4rn0 said:
So definitely this is more than some random bad luck for Honda and Marquez.

It seems that the Honda engine is too aggressive; but they cannot really intervene on it, since of course engines are sealed (ironically, a rule imposed by Honda themselves). They can only intervene through electronics, and that is hardly the best solution. Marquez is trying to ride over the problem, but we see that he's struggling.

The problem is Honda's belief that that could build the most powerful engine and then tame it down to be rideable through the electronics. Their excessive faith in their electronics is/was such that they were sure any engine rideability issues could be overcome with them, so sealing the engines was fine. Looks like it's coming to bite them in the arse.

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Marquez' troubled season start

J4rn0

HEISMAN

xx CURVE xx

Keshav

MigsAngel

Gaz

jyo

J4rn0

HEISMAN

DavidSim

#22

RCV600RR

J4rn0

Keshav

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Keshav

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Jumkie

#22

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