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Lorenzo pay cut ?

Seems reasonable. Maybe it will motivate him to try harder. Or maybe he'll do a Rossi. Lorenzo saying "Ducati will now "go in my direction" sounds like something right out of the ..... playbook. Why would Ducati un-do all (or any) of the great work they've done to make the bike ride as well as it did in '17? Especially given Dovi's performance? They've already lived through the fiasco of trying to create a Yamacati and ended up with uovo on their face. Unless they're letting Dovi go, it's hard to imagine them throwing good money after bad.
 
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Keshav said:
Seems reasonable. Maybe it will motivate him to try harder. Or maybe he'll do a Rossi. Lorenzo saying "Ducati will now "go in my direction" sounds like something right out of the ..... playbook. Why would Ducati un-do all (or any) of the great work they've done to make the bike ride as well as it did in '17? Especially given Dovi's performance? They've already lived through the fiasco of trying to create a Yamacati and ended up with uovo on their face. Unless they're letting Dovi go, it's hard to imagine them throwing good money after bad.
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All builders want a bike that turns mid corner, it’s almost a must if you want to compete with Honda and Yamaha. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to try and climb that last hill of development.
 
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Well I think 2018 Lorenzo will be #1 in the team. In my opinion Dov is way overrated and not an alien like Lorenzo is. He's really good but the results last year belongs first to the Ducati which is the best bike right now in my opinion. Before they will give Dov more money I think they will wait and see how his results are in 2018. If he's still faster than Lorenzo then they will give him a lot more, if not he will get a better contract but not that high donated as he wants.
 
Keshav said:
They've already lived through the fiasco of trying to create a Yamacati and ended up with uovo on their face.
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You can't comparison that to 2011 and 2012. Everyone wants to improve their bike and the Ducati needed a lot of improvement. And so VR and JB wanted it. But Prezioso was too proud for that and so there was some kind of war between them. Many people forgot that Gigi changed immediately many of the things VR wanted be changed in 2011 and 2012. Ducati was a crap bike 5 years ago and now you can see what is possible if you have an engineer who is willing to go the hard way.
 
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mantamani46 said:
Well I think 2018 Lorenzo will be #1 in the team. In my opinion Dov is way overrated and not an alien like Lorenzo is. He's really good but the results last year belongs first to the Ducati which is the best bike right now in my opinion. Before they will give Dov more money I think they will wait and see how his results are in 2018. If he's still faster than Lorenzo then they will give him a lot more, if not he will get a better contract but not that high donated as he wants.
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Dovi was not the only rider on a Ducati, if it really was the bike then you would have seen a lot more Ducati riders on the podium... Dovi had a fantastic season in 2017, but he made it happen, not the bike.
 
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povol said:
All builders want a bike that turns mid corner, it’s almost a must if you want to compete with Honda and Yamaha. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for them to try and climb that last hill of development.
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Well no, of course not. Tho that wasn't what I was implying. Only that Ducati has tried (not always to great effect) to maintain it's identity and not become as generic as the Jap bikes which are increasingly homogeneous. Personally - I've been rooting for them to find a solution to the steering issue; one that is distinctly theirs and not just rubber stamping technology used by the big 4. The engineering puzzle of how to use that great, but unconventional engine and not make the handling suffer - is an intriguing one.
 
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mantamani46 said:
You can't comparison that to 2011 and 2012. Everyone wants to improve their bike and the Ducati needed a lot of improvement. And so VR and JB wanted it. But Prezioso was too proud for that and so there was some kind of war between them. Many people forgot that Gigi changed immediately many of the things VR wanted be changed in 2011 and 2012. Ducati was a crap bike 5 years ago and now you can see what is possible if you have an engineer who is willing to go the hard way.
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What's to stop me?
 
mantamani46 said:
Well I think 2018 Lorenzo will be #1 in the team. In my opinion Dov is way overrated and not an alien like Lorenzo is. He's really good but the results last year belongs first to the Ducati which is the best bike right now in my opinion. Before they will give Dov more money I think they will wait and see how his results are in 2018. If he's still faster than Lorenzo then they will give him a lot more, if not he will get a better contract but not that high donated as he wants.
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If it's all the bike and Dovi is "overrated" - why didn't the "alien" do better? Do the math. Watch those last 5 races and the way he so often had the measure of Marquez - those breath-taking passes in the rain in particular and if you're at all objective - you have to come away knowing, that if anything, Dovi has been underrated.
 
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Keshav said:
If it's all the bike and Dovi is "overrated" - why didn't the "alien" do better? Do the math. Watch those last 5 races and the way he so often had the measure of Marquez - those breath-taking passes in the rain in particular and if you're at all objective - you have to come away knowing, that if anything, Dovi has been underrated.
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Dovi stepped up massively in 2017 too. Let's not forget that.
 
RCV600RR said:
Dovi stepped up massively in 2017 too. Let's not forget that.
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I'm sure it's a combination of that and Gigi's hand in the development of the bike. I think the main factor was Dovi and his accumulated experience with Ducati. An Italian speaking crew chief has to have been advantageous in many ways.
 
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I think looking a how Dovi rode the last half season he's going to be even stronger in 2018, personally I can't see Lorenzo getting there at all, if Dovi wins a couple in the first 5 races then the bike will be developed around him and quite rightly.
 
Keshav said:
I'm sure it's a combination of that and Gigi's hand in the development of the bike. I think the main factor was Dovi and his accumulated experience with Dovi. An Italian speaking crew chief has to have been advantageous in many ways.
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True. The bike was bloody good. It's a bit of a cycle - the rider gets more confident, the bike gets better, the rider's confidence grows further, etc.
 
Keshav said:
Well no, of course not. Tho that wasn't what I was implying. Only that Ducati has tried (not always to great effect) to maintain it's identity and not become as generic as the Jap bikes which are increasingly homogeneous. Personally - I've been rooting for them to find a solution to the steering issue; one that is distinctly theirs and not just rubber stamping technology used by the big 4. The engineering puzzle of how to use that great, but unconventional engine and not make the handling suffer - is an intriguing one.
Click to expand...

I was really rooting for the Duc's to get up, I cant quite work them out, from rider comments its very 'point and shoot' to an extent but seeing how the Duc's couldn't make the tyres work (or get heat into them or whatever) at PI where the 'point and shoot' Honda's seemed to (MM & JM).... I'm a bit miffed... maybe some major design philosophy differences in how they go about getting there.

This is just my opinion but seeing how Dovi won each race either side of PI I don't think its a stretch to think he could of put it on the podium there if the tyres had worked, may have been a different championship if that happened. Im really looking forward to seeing how Miller takes to the Pramac in race conditions.
 
Keshav said:
If it's all the bike and Dovi is "overrated" - why didn't the "alien" do better? Do the math. Watch those last 5 races and the way he so often had the measure of Marquez - those breath-taking passes in the rain in particular and if you're at all objective - you have to come away knowing, that if anything, Dovi has been underrated.
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The alien JL didn't do that because since he arrives in MotoGP he had only ridden the Yamaha. Yeah I've done my maths, but what about yours? In theast races you can see the performance on JL was improving and he was getting closer to Dov, who is riding the Ducati for years. And yes there were other Ducatis in the field, but be a little objective please. There were 3 factory riders, one of that was Petrucci who surely had to test things for the factory during the race weekends, like Cal, and so he can't focus just on his own performance. So, Petrucci is done. Only left is JL, as I said, completely new on this bike and it took some time to adapt. So, one weekend tester and one Ducati newbie, anyone left who had a factory Ducati? No. Dov is a good rider yes, but for me it was 70% Ducati and 30% Dov. We have to wait the season 2018, then we have a fair comparison to JL and then we will see truly see if it was Dov in 2017 or the Ducati.
 
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AJV80 said:
I was really rooting for the Duc's to get up, I cant quite work them out, from rider comments its very 'point and shoot' to an extent but seeing how the Duc's couldn't make the tyres work (or get heat into them or whatever) at PI where the 'point and shoot' Honda's seemed to (MM & JM).... I'm a bit miffed... maybe some major design philosophy differences in how they go about getting there.

This is just my opinion but seeing how Dovi won each race either side of PI I don't think its a stretch to think he could of put it on the podium there if the tyres had worked, may have been a different championship if that happened. Im really looking forward to seeing how Miller takes to the Pramac in race conditions.
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Marquez took that title moreso than Dovi and Ducati let it slip away. Misano. Marquez would not settle and Dovi did, that was a 9 point swing. Aragon was very costly to Dovi as that was a race a Ducati ran at the front the entire race but he finished way back in 7 th or 8th. Leading in to that race they were tied and MM got enough of a lead to race how he wanted to control the title. PI was not a good race for Ducati but once again Marquez didn’t settle for anything less than a win when it would have been perfectly understandable had he gotten out of that hornets nest at the front where you had Zarco and Ianonne throwing haymakers without consequence. The reality is, the entire drama of the season would have been non existent had it not been for the highly unusual Honda engine blow up at Silverstone. In my opinion, without that mechanical, he wins that race and runs away with the title as he was dominant from the German Grand Prix till the end of the season. In the last 10 races, he either won or could have all but 1, Motegi. He won 5 of those, finished 2nd at the wire in 2 more, blew up in a race he was more than likely going to win and flat out threw away a certain win at Valencia. Dovi most certainly deserves his 2nd place finish, but he was very fortunate that it was close.
 

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