Lets just be honest now.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 3 2009, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>gee it only took you two years to realise that! I remember arguing the same in 2007 ...... but even when Stoner was insurmountably in front .... the Rossifans still insisted Rossi was the best
Some people are such sheep. LOL

My list is probably the most accurate, because I'm the best.

Valentino ROSSI
Casey STONER
Jorge LORENZO
Dani PEDROSA
Nicky HAYDEN
Andrea DOVIZIOSO
Marco MELANDRI
Colin EDWARDS
Chris VERMEULEN
Loris CAPIROSSI
Toni ELIAS
Randy DE PUNIET
James TOSELAND
Alex DE ANGELIS
Mika KALLIO
Sete GIBERNAU
Niccolo CANEPA

If the moment is such an absolute then it's easy to argue that a championship position is by default a historical position an by no means represent the riders ability at that moment. After all, when the championship is decided it's usually with races going on for about 10 months time. The only truth remaining is "You are never better than the last race" witch of course are total .........
Snapshots like to day's point list are absolutely meaningless. Single victories hold their own importance and value but certainly doesn't represent a relevant "who's the best". To further put this into a frame: Even though less valid in motorbike racing championships are often built on a form curve where favorites can be far down in points in the start and are no less favorites for the championship and deserve their ranking no less despite a low position in points.
Then we start talking about the relvance of the equipment......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 3 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>gee it only took you two years to realise that! I remember arguing the same in 2007 ...... but even when Stoner was insurmountably in front .... the Rossifans still insisted Rossi was the best
What I remember best were you guessing rossi fith for '08 and after the first/second race talking about who's the best NOW. That sure was worth a lot

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 5 2009, 05:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What I remember best were you guessing rossi fith for '08 and after the first/second race talking about who's the best NOW. That sure was worth a lot

you can't deny statistics made it look that way

but to Rossi's credit he came out nd got his act together again after two years of lapse.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 5 2009, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you can't deny statistics made it look that way

but to Rossi's credit he came out nd got his act together again after two years of lapse.


And don't forget you still think you can use gyros to find an accurate position on a track

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 5 2009, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you can't deny statistics made it look that way

but to Rossi's credit he came out nd got his act together again after two years of lapse.

BM, you wouldn't know statistics if they hit your face under the sand. Numbers != Statistics
The statistics showed quite the opposite an overwhelming probability for Rossi to be fighting for the lead.
Just like all other meaningful comparisons statistics must use historical data over a significant period of time to even be called statistics.

And as for gyros, don't shoot me, you shod rather go at those that actually experimented with maping changes based on accelerometers and gyro. Impossible? think not. But then again this must be very confusing for you, statistics, numbers same same right?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rickyduck @ Jul 3 2009, 09:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This his how good each rider really is.

1 Valentino ROSSI
2 Jorge LORENZO
3 Casey STONER
4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO
5 Dani PEDROSA
6 Colin EDWARDS
7 Loris CAPIROSSI
8 Marco MELANDRI
9 Chris VERMEULEN
10 Randy DE PUNIET
11 James TOSELAND
12 Alex DE ANGELIS
13 Nicky HAYDEN
14 Toni ELIAS
15 Mika KALLIO
16 Niccolo CANEPA
17 Sete GIBERNAU
18 Yuki TAKAHASHI


I'm sick of all these people asking who's better than who. This is who's better than who. No questions asked. No arguments, no competition, no moaning.

Rossi is the best.

Lorenzo is the second best. What I like to see

Yes Stoner Suck-ups, he's 3rd best. No good, he's lost his touch.

4th is Dovizioso, above his team mate.

5th is good old short arse.

6th is Edwards,

7th is capirossi, so all the ones that call him "crapirossi" [what the .... anyways] shut your ....... hole.

8th - Melandri. But probably the mosest ballsiest on the grid.

9th - Vermulen. Still in the top ten people. Only 2 positions behind his team mate. Not really "under-performing"

10th - Randy De Puniet - Imagine where he'd be with crashes! I love the fella, and I'm glad his in the top 10.

11th - JT - yes, I like JT, but 11th isnt satisfactory at the moment.

12th - De Angelis. Can't say much really, sattelite honda, but could be doing better.

13th - Hayden. Sorry, it's still 13th, no matter what bike

14th - Elias - Poor results from the guy who pipped rossi to the win at portugal.

15th - Kallio. Good performance at assen at least. But still, 4th from last.

16th - Canepa. Should of stuck to testing, but at least he's not always last.

17th - Gibernau. Another rider on a sat duke. Silly people. Noway near a reflection on how he used to be.

18th - Takahashi - No good.

19th - Gabor - Not fair to judge from this result, only been in two rounds.


So come on people, instead of making up points as to why they are so crap, just face it, Rossi is best.


U can always argue about that but u have to see the POTENTIAL of the riders....i have to smile when i see where U put hayden hehe....just not true...

U judge about all riders but not all riders are on FACTORYbikes!!! kallio, hayden, de puniet....are all better than u post! Kallio just came and is best rookie on a satelitebike! 15.? dont think so! he has more potential....and so on...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rickyduck @ Jul 5 2009, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>PASSI - I think you misunderstood.

Thats the championship table, not my opinion. Sure riders have potential, but thats now.
You make a fair point, but I whilst I mostly agree with your argument if it is applied to the points table at the end of the season, particularly early in the season the the tally can be affected by aberrant events. To extrapolate the other way deciding the best rider by who leads at the end of the first lap of the first race would probably not be regarded as a good method by most.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rickyduck @ Jul 5 2009, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>PASSI - I think you misunderstood.

Thats the championship table, not my opinion. Sure riders have potential, but thats now.

IMHO, regarding the table, I always regard Marco Melandri is one of the best riders out there, he is better than Pedrosa IMO. Just unlucky guy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rickyduck @ Jul 5 2009, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>PASSI - I think you misunderstood.

Thats the championship table, not my opinion. Sure riders have potential, but thats now.

well you wrote "This his how good each rider really is."

so i thought U meant this is sth. like the "strenghtlist" of the riders!

sry if I got U wrong bro!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 5 2009, 04:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>BM, you wouldn't know statistics if they hit your face under the sand. Numbers != Statistics
The statistics showed quite the opposite an overwhelming probability for Rossi to be fighting for the lead.
Just like all other meaningful comparisons statistics must use historical data over a significant period of time to even be called statistics.

And as for gyros, don't shoot me, you shod rather go at those that actually experimented with maping changes based on accelerometers and gyro. Impossible? think not. But then again this must be very confusing for you, statistics, numbers same same right?

As I mention in another thread, Rossi´s got 100th wins out of 217th appearances, which turns out to be 46.08% in his whole carrier.

Focusing on 500/MotoGP alone (2000 – 2009) and looking at Stats Rossi has a better average of 47.13%. With that average Rossi's projection until the end of 2012 would tie up Agostini's record of 122, but needs one up to break it!

Year Races Wins Average
2000 16 2 12.50%
2001 16 11 68.75%
2002 16 11 68.75%
2003 16 9 56.25%
2004 16 9 56.25%
2005 17 11 64.71%
2006 17 5 29.41%
2007 18 4 22.22%
2008 18 9 50.00%
2009 7 3 42.86%

Actual 157 74 47.13%

2010 11 5.18 47.13%
2011 18 8.48 47.13%
2012 18 8.48 47.13%

Projection 47 22.15 47.13%

Anyway, argument most be based on a 2006-07 hiccop. In his Rookie year was great, but still a Rookie. 2001-2002 was his best average so far in top class (68.75%). 2003 is great too, just not best. 2004 with changing of Bike Constructor managed to sustain a great average for the conditions he was at, proved to be the best ever at that moment I think, only rider in History to achieve consecutive wins with different bikes. 2005 recovered a great deal from 2004 on that average, lifting it up over 64% again. So here come a decline in 2006 that kept going to 2007, oh well, Rossi had a hiccup with all this changing rules and formulas. 2008 was his raise again, so if he manages 2008's average until 2012 he would get the 23 wins.

Answering the Author's question… that would make Rossi the Best 'Today' (as Standings are right now, which says not much to me really) and in History!

Silliest thread for ages..........

As a deeply religious person, I take great pride in FAITH. Faith is honourable, faith is good, faith is the way. And faith is a belief that requires no evidence.

Soooooooo......... I have faith that Gabor Talmasci is the best rider today or ever. Sure, no evidence , but I have faith that its true. Must be....I,ve got an old book somewhere, translated by a few blokes I don,t know and left hidden in a cave somewhere.........well anyway these blokes reckon Gabor is the man and who am I to disagree. These old blokes ; motorcycling experts from yore, reckon Gabors the one and their message is holy, so I will be really offended if anyone dares disagree, because the word is holy, the word is Gabor, and any criticism , any discussion is a criticism of my faith and I WILL NOT COUNTENANCE THAT. I will start a fatwah or begin a jihad on anyone that disagrees because faith is beyond analysis, beyond criticism, You have been warned!
Even if your name is Roger...........especially if your name is Roger..............

.......but seriously, how do you determine the best rider? It can only be done by race results when everything else is equal and that doesn,t happen very often . Rossi and Lorenzo are on the same bike with the same tyres, and assuming that Jorges team are as competent as Rossis, then you must assume that Rossi is better than Lorenzo (but not by much), Equally Stoner is better than Hayden, Capirossi than Vermeulin, Edwards than Toseland. Beyond that it gets difficult and gets subjective. If there were a series of races where the whole field raced on Yamahas and then hondas and then ducatis etc , and all the results tallied, then we would get a pretty good indication. But until then its all speculation. I would like to think the best rider is one who would jump on any bike, even maybe a road bike with standard suspension settings and be faster than the other guys(R6 cup/ superstock race on one bike only) . That would do it for me. Until then its speculation- wild speculation, obsessive fan speculation or educated, evidence based speculation. Thats why I suppose we have a forum and keep arguing. I suppose if the answer were certain there wouldn,t be as much to say and we ( meaning forum addicts like Jumkie and Roger) wouldnt spend half our lives at the computer.

My speculation is that Stoner ( when fit) is the fastest. But I cant prove it!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Jul 8 2009, 02:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Silliest thread for ages..........

As a deeply religious person, I take great pride in FAITH. Faith is honourable, faith is good, faith is the way. And faith is a belief that requires no evidence.

Soooooooo......... I have faith that Gabor Talmasci is the best rider today or ever. Sure, no evidence , but I have faith that its true. Must be....I,ve got an old book somewhere, translated by a few blokes I don,t know and left hidden in a cave somewhere.........well anyway these blokes reckon Gabor is the man and who am I to disagree. These old blokes ; motorcycling experts from yore, reckon Gabors the one and their message is holy, so I will be really offended if anyone dares disagree, because the word is holy, the word is Gabor, and any criticism , any discussion is a criticism of my faith and I WILL NOT COUNTENANCE THAT. I will start a fatwah or begin a jihad on anyone that disagrees because faith is beyond analysis, beyond criticism, You have been warned!
Even if your name is Roger...........especially if your name is Roger..............
.... me, bunny has got a sense of humour after all