Last Lap Overtaking Stats

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Dec 15 2008, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This confused the hell out of me povol.

CE = Colin Edwards.

The man you are taking about is named Ezy.


Yes,and Ezy's last name starts with an E and his first name starts with a C.

The quote was from an interview that was copied and pasted.The interviewer used the intials CE for Carmelo's responses.I hope it didnt confuse you to much.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wander @ Dec 15 2008, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Umm... CE stands for Carmelo Ezpeleta actually.

Thanks,and they think im ...... up

The last I read in my new road racer x is that Rossi thinks the tire rule is going to suck. I think I would tend to believe a guy that has the ability to dev any bike and be sucessful. Most of the people in the paddock as well as othes think also the tires that are made will not work that well for every bike since they are going to use most info from Vale anyway. HE seems to say that in a way as well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Dec 16 2008, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The last I read in my new road racer x is that Rossi thinks the tire rule is going to suck. I think I would tend to believe a guy that has the ability to dev any bike and be sucessful. Most of the people in the paddock as well as othes think also the tires that are made will not work that well for every bike since they are going to use most info from Vale anyway. HE seems to say that in a way as well.

you're making .... up...NON of the riders have said it's gonna suck...let alone Rossi

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Dec 16 2008, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>you're making .... up...NON of the riders have said it's gonna suck...let alone Rossi
OK then why on page 34 of the newest roadracer x in the bottom left of the page Rossi says quote" I don't think the mono-tire rule is the solution for this problem... The electronics are very sophisticated, the technical evolution is incredible, and next year will be even worse." SO that is right from Vale's mouth dude and I made none of it up. GO to the mag and look or maybe even the website if you can look at that page.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Dec 16 2008, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>OK then why on page 34 of the newest roadracer x in the bottom left of the page Rossi says quote" I don't think the mono-tire rule is the solution for this problem... The electronics are very sophisticated, the technical evolution is incredible, and next year will be even worse." SO that is right from Vale's mouth dude and I made none of it up. GO to the mag and look or maybe even the website if you can look at that page.

he's not saying it's gonna suck though...he's saying it's not the ONLY thing that needs to be regulated.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Dec 16 2008, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>he's not saying it's gonna suck though...he's saying it's not the ONLY thing that needs to be regulated.
I will look for where he said something very close without actually saying the word suck. Plus he isn't the only one and it is going to suck dude. Even Burgess thinks it is a stupid idea and is going to change nothing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Dec 16 2008, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I will look for where he said something very close without actually saying the word suck. Plus he isn't the only one and it is going to suck dude. Even Burgess thinks it is a stupid idea and is going to change nothing.

How is it gonna suck??...JB said it's gonna suck for the OTHER riders cause they're not gonna have an advantage over Rossi...he's gonna whip there ... cause they're on the same tire..thats what JB said.

I honestly don’t think much will change with the spec tires, be them faster or slower. As Jeremy Burgess eloquently put it “The cream will always rise to the top”.
-that is from motorcyledaily.com

I hope it makes for better racing but I don't think we will see so much close racing like people think will happen. It won't look like a 125 or a 250 race by any means.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Dec 16 2008, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How is it gonna suck??...JB said it's gonna suck for the OTHER riders cause they're not gonna have an advantage over Rossi...he's gonna whip there ... cause they're on the same tire..thats what JB said.
so how is the racing going to be closer then if rossi is going to "whip there<sic> ..."?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Dec 16 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>so how is the racing going to be closer then if rossi is going to "whip there<sic> ..."?



who cares long as he does right

Curvey, you are a .... disturber aren't you?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Dec 17 2008, 06:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Curvey, you are a .... disturber aren't you?
+1

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Dec 15 2008, 01:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How do you force close racing? I don't think anybody really knows to be honest. The most obvious answers............

Control more things: Make stuff the same and hope that lots of similar machines will then race close to each other.

Encourage variation: Overtaking happens when two vehicles go a significantly different speed, not when they are all the same.

Did you notice a bit of a contradiction on the .... I highlighted?

Here Tom, perhaps this link will help you answers the issue in question.
OVER-RATED

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Dec 21 2008, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did you notice a bit of a contradiction on the .... I highlighted?

Here Tom, perhaps this link will help you answers the issue in question.
OVER-RATED

Well noticed! They are supposed to contradict each other. Although the FIA seem to think they can do both with F1

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Dec 21 2008, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> Well noticed! They are supposed to contradict each other. Although the FIA seem to think they can do both with F1
I have come to the reluctant conclusion that they do need to reduce the cost of both F1 and motogp, epecially F1, or neither will survive long term. However, most things tried by those running the sports (and I don't mean FIA and FIM) have neither reduced costs nor improved the racing. I don't have great hopes for the future if the current people continue to direct both sports, although some of what ezpeleta said in his recent interview was not unreasonable.

I think your point about controlling things more not necessarily producing closer racing is valid , and is what burgess was referring to; presumably if rossi is as far superior as many think, on a control bike he wins more easily with close racing only resulting if stoner or someone else is as good or nearly as good as him. I think someone with the ability to dominate as much as rossi or doohan in motogp has hitherto been unlikely to be in wsbk in the first place or to stay there for a long time, and the closer racing is partly due to this as well as the bike equalisation policy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Dec 15 2008, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They didn't force close racing, they forced racing with little overtaking by making fundamental changes to the sport without considering the impact on the spectacle or the heritage of the sport.

I think the change to 4 strokes was necessary for the sport, but DORNA/FIM/MSMA have gone out of their way to ignore the warnings issued by people who were passionately invested in MotoGP.

The spectacle of 990cc racing was enough to allow fans, promoters, and participants to casually gloss over some of the sport's glaring new flaws. Now that the 990s are gone, fuel has been overly restricted, and electronics have taken over much of the rider's duties; the flaws characterize MotoGP and the competitive environment.

In a nutshell, the sport as become a joke. The 800s are faster, more expensive, and more dangerous in some regards. The first 5 years of 990cc were an overwhelming success with one dark spot that was caused mainly by poor circuit safety not engine capacity.

Everything that has happened since Kato's death, has been to the injury of MotoGP.


Well put. +1

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Dec 21 2008, 01:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They are supposed to contradict each other.
........ as usual. You presented them (3 points) in conjunction NOT as either/or. Now you try as usual to weasel out of contradictory points. Same old MO Tom. BULLSHITTER.


Anyway, the last time we had a good show was the last year of the 990s. They made significant changes and killed the close racing aspect. They wanted to slow them down as the ........ reason they gave us, the opposite happened. Now Ezy can't make up his mind why they changed to a spec tire "Safety/Costs". He is already launching a PR campaign aimed at defending the racing aspect if the show suffers by saying he doesn't think the control tire will encourage overtaking. Their proposals for the 600 is basically a standard bike passed off as prototype. The man and the series are lost.


Well at least ONE THING hasn't changed...(NOT that you would care Tom):

LINK

LINK2

The presented statistics are irrelevant because they do not include Time as a factor.

The strokers ran for decades. They were at their development limit. Hence, close racing because everybody was pretty even after decades of development.

The 990s ran for a handful of years.

The 800s are only 2 years old.

Calculating a percentage against a backdrop of 20+years vs. 2 years is totally misleading.

As Burgess was quoted, you won't see parity until you stop changing the rules and let things settle down for a while; it doesn't matter if they're racing 800s, 1000s, or 1500s, you have to let everybody catch up to each other (development-wise) and then there will be close racing.

My 2 cents:

I think it is less about the bikes and more about the style of the riders.

Before Stoner and Padrosa, Rossi always had the meassure of his oponents both mentally and skillfully. Because of this he would hang back and play with them through the race before completely mind ....... them by blowing by 2,3 or 4 of them in the last lap or two.

Stoner and Pedrosa don't race this way. They clear of first lap if they can and just laydown lap after lap of blistering speed.

Rossi has recently taken to this same tactic because his opponents are less predictable then his previous opponents.

I don't care what changes are made to the machinery you will never change the race tactics of the rider.