Laguna 2011.....that pass!

Mr Squiggle · Jul 28, 2011

The move Stoner made on Pedro going through the corkscrew was pretty impressive but the move going into turn 1 to take the lead from Lorenzo was one of the most incredible overtaking moves I reckon I have seen. That took balls and skill to pull it off and I was amazed Casey was able to reel it in and stay ahead of JLo exiting the corner....I cant find a link to the aired TV footage but below is a link from a trackside spectator....BTW If anyone has got a link to the aired footage please post it....TIA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0eke9wc4_8

Check out the acceleration of these bikes once they exit turn 1...........FAAAAAARRRRRRRRKKKKKKK! These things are missiles.

Here is what Kevin Schwantz had to say about the move post race.....

"That was a big balls move, it took my breath away, I haven't seen anything better than that," Schwantz said. "When I saw Casey going for that move I thought, 'no fing way.' "That corner is wide open at 300kph, flat in sixth gear over the top of a blind crest and Casey came down the outside of Jorge and just sucked the paint off his bike."

And here is an article where Revin Kevin talks more about "the pass" and the race in general....

http://m.sportrider.com/news/146_11...eca_race_results_stoner_comes_back/index.html

Apparently Lorenzo thought that pass was a bit too much.....To him I'd say "thats racing"

akeizm · Jul 28, 2011

Only too much to Jorge because it was pulled on him and showed him up.

Tom · Jul 28, 2011

akeizm said:
Only too much to Jorge because it was pulled on him and showed him up.

........, it didn't show him up he just got passed. It isn't like Jorge is slow through that turn and Casey made a fool of him, Casey just nailed it on a lap where Jorge didn't. Incredible pass, massive credit to Stoner for having the balls to try it and then making it work but that doesn't imply any discredit to the guy being passed.

BarryMachine · Jul 28, 2011

As Stoner himself said, he only took it because Lorenzo wheelied at the start of the straight. You could see Lorenzoreact to the wheelie by backing off and then Stoner decided to go outside him.

Was Certainly an amazing pass and one that was pretty much the result of the duel that was going on. ie. Lorenzo was covering all bases real well so I guess Stoner was ready for any mistake.

J4rn0 · Jul 28, 2011

The pass was possible because Lorenzo made a small mistake, -- his bike was wheeling a bit too much coming into the straight and that was enough to give the advantage to Stoner who came out cleaner and faster. But even like that, it took the proverbial balls and tons of skill to actually pull off such a close overtake at that speed. Kudos to Stoner!

What puzzled me was the news that later Stoner went to Lorenzo and "apologized" for overtaking him in that way. That's funny, since what they both do as a profession is called racing... And that was a brave and masterful example of motorcycle racing, nothing to apologize about it.

Lebowski · Jul 28, 2011

Thanks for the video Squiggle. What a great track to watch racing at!

Agree with your comments Jrno and I suspect if given the same opportunity in the future he would do the same again (despite the protestations of his good wife).

Anders · Jul 28, 2011

J4rn0 said:
The pass was possible because Lorenzo made a small mistake, -- his bike was wheeling a bit too much coming into the straight and that was enough to give the advantage to Stoner who came out cleaner and faster. But even like that, it took the proverbial balls and tons of skill to actually pull off such a close overtake at that speed. Kudos to Stoner!

What puzzled me was the news that later Stoner went to Lorenzo and "apologized" for overtaking him in that way. That's funny, since what they both do as a profession is called racing... And that was a brave and masterful example of motorcycle racing, nothing to apologize about it.

I agree.

Tom · Jul 28, 2011

J4rn0 said:
The pass was possible because Lorenzo made a small mistake, -- his bike was wheeling a bit too much coming into the straight and that was enough to give the advantage to Stoner who came out cleaner and faster. But even like that, it took the proverbial balls and tons of skill to actually pull off such a close overtake at that speed. Kudos to Stoner!

What puzzled me was the news that later Stoner went to Lorenzo and "apologized" for overtaking him in that way. That's funny, since what they both do as a profession is called racing... And that was a brave and masterful example of motorcycle racing, nothing to apologize about it.

It is simply respect and good manners. Casey was on the outside of Jorge and came accross his line forcing Jorge to back off or crash, all at one of the fastest corners possible. It was totally clean but clearly a very tough move.

povol · Jul 28, 2011

Tom said:
It is simply respect and good manners. Casey was on the outside of Jorge and came accross his line forcing Jorge to back off or crash, all at one of the fastest corners possible. It was totally clean but clearly a very tough move.

Agree, they both know and respect how horribly wrong things could have gone had it not been for the precision of both riders. Not many crashes come at those speeds. I have read numerous accounts of the pass and you can tell who knows what with the responses. Some are like, i dont see what the big deal is, he passed him on the front straight. That is one tricky ... corner, if you want to call it a corner. Blind rise, negative camber and wide ....... open. If they come together at the crest of the hill and Stoner gets knocked over just a hair, he is more than likely off track at 170 mph. It took huge balls to attempt. I would say after Jorge cleaned out his pants, he appreciated the move.

SackWack · Jul 28, 2011

Payback

Jumkie · Jul 28, 2011

SackWack said:
Payback

Payback for what? Btw, how do you go mysteriously absent every time we are driving up to Laguna?

This pass was good, no doubt, but it started way before , I'd say coming out of turn 11. I think the pass Rossi made on Lorenzo at Catalunya was more ballsy in terms of both movies being something like spacewalkers relying on a rope. Not sure if you guys can detect this on TV, but the straight ENDs right at the bridge. That turn 1 is completely blind, but if you guys recall, Casey tried that move on Rossi Laguna 08 and wasn't able to execute it several times. The man has become a better racer for sure.

spooky · Jul 28, 2011

povol said:
Agree, they both know and respect how horribly wrong things could have gone had it not been for the precision of both riders. Not many crashes come at those speeds. I have read numerous accounts of the pass and you can tell who knows what with the responses. Some are like, i dont see what the big deal is, he passed him on the front straight. That is one tricky ... corner, if you want to call it a corner. Blind rise, negative camber and wide ....... open. If they come together at the crest of the hill and Stoner gets knocked over just a hair, he is more than likely off track at 170 mph. It took huge balls to attempt. I would say after Jorge cleaned out his pants, he appreciated the move.

Agree. he also pulled the same move on Rossi in 2008 twice, once on he start finish 'straight' then again a couple of turns before the cork screw . . . this is the kind of racing i and many other want to see more of!

mylexicon · Jul 28, 2011

Would it have been better to make an ugly block pass in turn 2?

That is the question, imo. Turn 1 is not for passing. It was a big deal when Tamada went up the inside of Hopper back in the 990 days, though they weren't at the front so no one really paid that much attention. Turn 1 overtakes are still a big deal.

I don't fault Casey at all, it's just one of those situations in racing where things get to a certain point, and you don't really have a choice. Same happened at Jerez this year, imo. Casey was riding in control. Rossi was pushing way over the limit. Rossi braked late, the door was open, and he had no where to go but up the inside. Rossi was, of course, completely at fault for maniacal misjudgment, but the circumstances are kind of similar to Laguna. Lorenzo bobbled a bit. Casey tried to drive around the outside, but he didn't make it before turn 1. Shutting the throttle over a blind crest was not really an option so he just went for it. Avoiding a crazy pass in turn 1 starts all the way back at the exit of turn 11. Imo, the riders do not ride at Laguna often enough, nor do they have enough experience in close quarters (thanks 21L 800cc formula) to have that kind of foresight.

ScottP · Jul 28, 2011

Mr Squiggle said:
The move Stoner made on Pedro going through the corkscrew was pretty impressive but the move going into turn 1 to take the lead from Lorenzo was one of the most incredible overtaking moves I reckon I have seen. That took balls and skill to pull it off and I was amazed Casey was able to reel it in and stay ahead of JLo exiting the corner....I cant find a link to the aired TV footage but below is a link from a trackside spectator....BTW If anyone has got a link to the aired footage please post it....TIA

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=I0eke9wc4_8

Check out the acceleration of these bikes once they exit turn 1...........FAAAAAARRRRRRRRKKKKKKK! These things are missiles.

Here is what Kevin Schwantz had to say about the move post race.....

"That was a big balls move, it took my breath away, I haven't seen anything better than that," Schwantz said. "When I saw Casey going for that move I thought, 'no fing way.' "That corner is wide open at 300kph, flat in sixth gear over the top of a blind crest and Casey came down the outside of Jorge and just sucked the paint off his bike."

And here is an article where Revin Kevin talks more about "the pass" and the race in general....

http://m.sportrider....back/index.html

Apparently Lorenzo thought that pass was a bit too much.....To him I'd say "thats racing"

Here 'Mr Squiggle' teh classic PASS but Stoner is going to win the W?C's of 2011 hes just too good and the reason why he didnt do so well in the last 2 motogp races is because of his BAD NECK INJURY...so lets see what happens next!!! Stoner is and will be a LEGEND of motogp!!!

povol · Jul 28, 2011

Scotty said:
Here 'Mr Squiggle' teh classic PASS but Stoner is going to win the W?C's of 2011 hes just too good and the reason why he didnt do so well in the last 2 motogp races is because of his BAD NECK INJURY...so lets see what happens next!!! Stoner is and will be a LEGEND of motogp!!!

Stoner is already a legend in Moto Gp. He is 6th in alltime wins at this point in his career. Everyone ahead of him is a legend, and a few behind him as well.

ScottP · Jul 28, 2011

The timing the patience and the control that Stonershowed at Laguna is what I thing and will differentiate him from the rest fromNOW ON …he now knows his tyre problems and hes going to preserve and ride likeat Laguna from now on in every GP!!! There will not be any for pars like he made at Sachsenringor Assen…From Now On He Will Ride The KaaaaKaaaHonda Like No Other Race Did andthat includes VR and Doohan Gardner Spenser (who was a ......)!!!

viva la differance!!!

SuperShinya56 · Jul 28, 2011

Being that it is a tight double apex into turns 1 and 2, the line of choice going into turn 1 would of been on the outside anyway, carrying more momentum and giving you more angle to attack turn 2 hitting the standard apex on corner 2 on the inside.

If you defended on the inside, such as what Lorenzo did...... you are force to brake a bit earlier cuz it's a swooping corner.

michaelm · Jul 29, 2011

mylexicon said:
Would it have been better to make an ugly block pass in turn 2?

That is the question, imo. Turn 1 is not for passing. It was a big deal when Tamada went up the inside of Hopper back in the 990 days, though they weren't at the front so no one really paid that much attention. Turn 1 overtakes are still a big deal.

I don't fault Casey at all, it's just one of those situations in racing where things get to a certain point, and you don't really have a choice. Same happened at Jerez this year, imo. Casey was riding in control. Rossi was pushing way over the limit. Rossi braked late, the door was open, and he had no where to go but up the inside. Rossi was, of course, completely at fault for maniacal misjudgment, but the circumstances are kind of similar to Laguna. Lorenzo bobbled a bit. Casey tried to drive around the outside, but he didn't make it before turn 1. Shutting the throttle over a blind crest was not really an option so he just went for it. Avoiding a crazy pass in turn 1 starts all the way back at the exit of turn 11. Imo, the riders do not ride at Laguna often enough, nor do they have enough experience in close quarters (thanks 21L 800cc formula) to have that kind of foresight.

All indications are that the topology of laguna seca is quite complex and cannot be appreciated in 2 dimensions on TV or computer screens so it would seem a good idea to look to people who have at least been there as I presume you have, or even better ridden there.

What you say explains why casey felt it necessary to speak to george post race, and I have not seen any triumphalism from him about it, which may be what irritated him from rossi post the laguna seca 2008 thing, where in the end rossi did not have a wide range of choice about further action after the semi-lose either. The minor error before the pass may have been george's only mistake for the race as well, as he is not heavily into mistakes these days

THE_FREAKY · Aug 2, 2011

povol said:
Stoner is already a legend in Moto Gp. He is 6th in alltime wins at this point in his career. Everyone ahead of him is a legend, and a few behind him as well.

LMFAO!!! stoner already a legend? looong way to go before he can be considered a legend of motogp. 1 title in 5 years does not make a legend. give the guy a few more years as he has now the tools to go along with his skill to dominate year after year. but it's entirely laughable to suggest that he already is a legend. embarrassing to even think about it. LMFAO!!!

povol · Aug 2, 2011

THE_FREAKY said:
LMFAO!!! stoner already a legend? looong way to go before he can be considered a legend of motogp. 1 title in 5 years does not make a legend. give the guy a few more years as he has now the tools to go along with his skill to dominate year after year. but it's entirely laughable to suggest that he already is a legend. embarrassing to even think about it. LMFAO!!!

Guys with less wins in twice the time and the same number of titles are legends. What makes Casey any less of a legend than say Schwantz.. They both had a win or bin attitude. They both rode .... equipment for a portion of their career.Tell me why

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