Japanese Riders

I was just looking at some Gp stats and it was amazing the lack of success that Japanese riders have had in Gp cosidering the overwhelming success the Japanes Manufacturers have had.Since going to the 500cc bike till now,the Japanese bikes have won 66% of the races ran,yet not 1 Japanese rider has won a title and as a country they have 12 wins combined.You would think a country like Japan with their win at all cost mentality,would have riders groomed from birth to ride the Mother Country machinery to glory.Is it cultural,Is racing something they actually care about as a society,because come to think of it,they have some wicked ... race car history with not many drivers that have made a name for themselves.Seems strange to me

Ukawa is probably the rare to have had the right equipment but I don't think he had the talent to be a champion.

Too sad we lost Katoh, I think he may have been the greatest Japanese rider

Everybody knows Asians can't drive.

I think all Japanese riders/ drivers just have the parts to be a reat rider. All are fast, but they all are missing one part, Patients. They are abusive riders/drivers, and push the equipment past the limits. They do not have the patients to stop when the equipment reaches the edge of it's ability. Makota Tamada is a favorite rider of mine, and he has shown he has the skills, but he is just too damn fast for his abilities. Tora Takagi in F1 and later CART/IRL, was fast, but was so fast that he could not keep himself out of the wall.

I think maybe it's like the Japanese golf conundrum? I bet you have to come from a wealthy family to take motorcycling up in Japan. In the U.S. or Australia all you need is a couple grand, a mechanically inclined father, and a patch of land.

Please don't wish well on any other country. The big four are engaged in an epic power struggle. Italy has 18 premier titles, Britain has 17 premier titles, the U.S. has 15, and Australia will have 7 at the end of this season.

Italy is putting an Italian on the GP8 next year and Stoner is making me nervous. Hayden, Spies, and Hopper need to mount a charge to capture second place or maybe even first, lest Stoner reduce the gap, or Melandri make first place out of reach. Plus you never know what Toseland might do on the right equipment!

We don't have time to lament that the Japanese and Spaniards suck. It's go time!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Sep 21 2007, 07:03 AM) [snapback]91914[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think maybe it's like the Japanese golf conundrum? I bet you have to come from a wealthy family to take motorcycling up in Japan. In the U.S. or Australia all you need is a couple grand, a mechanically inclined father, and a patch of land.

Please don't wish well on any other country. The big four are engaged in an epic power struggle. Italy has 18 premier titles, Britain has 17 premier titles, the U.S. has 15, and Australia will have 7 at the end of this season.

Italy is putting an Italian on the GP8 next year and Stoner is making me nervous. Hayden, Spies, and Hopper need to mount a charge to capture second place or maybe even first, lest Stoner reduce the gap, or Melandri make first place out of reach. Plus you never know what Toseland might do on the right equipment!

We don't have time to lament that the Japanese and Spaniards suck. It's go time!


Little ol' Australia is on the move!

This post gave me a good chuckle!

Riders are usually selecting with the sponsor's nod -- whose main intention is to use the rider's success to sell more of their products..

Now, lets which companies sponsor the work's teams:

Team -- Sponsor -- Product -- Main Market -- Main Rider -- Rider Nationality

Honda -- Repsol -- Oil -- Spain -- Pedrosa -- Spain
Yamaha -- Fiat -- Cars -- Italy -- Rossi -- Italy
Ducati -- Marlboro -- Tobacco -- Global -- Stoner -- Australian
Suzuki -- Rizla -- Tobacco -- John Hopkins -- Anglo American

Assuming that the rider's nationality matches the sponsor's main market out of coincidence would be naive.

Not many sponsors target Japan as main market. Hence, its difficult for Japanese riders to get riders on works machines.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Sep 21 2007, 07:03 AM) [snapback]91914[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
In the U.S. or Australia all you need is a couple grand, a mechanically inclined father, and a patch of land.


A couple of grand? Ouch.
Let me race in that Australia.
I've seen a lot more than 'a couple of grand' fly out of the wallet on more than one occasion during the season!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Corr @ Sep 20 2007, 04:12 PM) [snapback]91935[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
A couple of grand? Ouch.
Let me race in that Australia.
I've seen a lot more than 'a couple of grand' fly out of the wallet on more than one occasion during the season!



How much is a used dirt bike over there. Here a small displacement model suitable for a kid is only a couple of grand. According to ebay Oz appears to be the same?

Of course, you need tons more cash to get into the big classes, but you can start riding without legal limitation for cheap. right?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Sep 20 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]91929[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

Suzuki -- Rizla -- Tobacco -- John Hopkins -- Anglo American


rizla is not tobacco thier rolling papers & people ain't rollin tobacco in em either...

[quote name='crvlvr' date='Sep 20 2007, 06:41 PM' post='91929']
Riders are usually selecting with the sponsor's nod -- whose main intention is to use the rider's success to sell more of their products..

Now, lets which companies sponsor the work's teams:

Team -- Sponsor -- Product -- Main Market -- Main Rider -- Rider Nationality

Honda -- Repsol -- Oil -- Spain -- Pedrosa -- Spain
Yamaha -- Fiat -- Cars -- Italy -- Rossi -- Italy
Ducati -- Marlboro -- Tobacco -- Global -- Stoner -- Australian
Suzuki -- Rizla -- Tobacco -- John Hopkins -- Anglo American

Assuming that the rider's nationality matches the sponsor's main market out of coincidence would be naive.

Not many sponsors target Japan as main market. Hence, its difficult for Japanese riders to get riders on works machines.

It has to be more than a nationality or money thing.Honda and KHI have more money than those sponsors combined.Honda could run a factory team without a cent of sponsor money if they decided to,as could KHI.We are talking about a country that takes national pride to a suicidal level.There are plenty of rich kids in Japan that could have anything they wanted.Instead of the 100k drifter car,daddy could get the kid into racing if thats what he wanted.Im guessing its just a lack of intrest in the sport itself.Does their Gp draw huge crowds?.Bike racing here [US] is not huge by any means but we have a pretty storied history in Gp and the only bike made here is the fooking Harley.On the other hand,what spurs the Italians to be such bike fanatics and why do they turn out riders by the dozens that excel in Gp.

It is also true that if Japanese manufacturers have always helped national riders in 125 and 250, they've never been very keen in helping them to do the last step, except for Ukawa.

Akiyoshi :up: Doin a good job so far this weekend, even though hes nearly 40 or something.. Makes you wonder about CV? Weird..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Sep 21 2007, 07:03 AM) [snapback]91914[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
In the U.S. or Australia all you need is a couple grand, a mechanically inclined father, and a patch of land.

Lets just say the amount money ive spent riding/racing dirt bikes would of been enough for a deposit on a home.....
Bloody hell my knee reco cost more than a couple of grand

japan culture/society is nothing like any of you described also I very much doubt a honda/yamaha/suzuki/kawasaki costs less in america

Motorcycling is a very popular form of transportation who knows why not many take the next step to a higher level, there is alot of circuits and they arent to exspensive to ride at tsukuba circuit (about 30 mins from me) you pay around 350 for 1 year and you can just go on their site with a schedule and you can go up to 3 times a weekday and 1 day a weekend maxium for each week so if you didnt work you could be riding 4 days a week each week for the whole year

and its normally quite busy

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frosty58 @ Sep 21 2007, 12:52 AM) [snapback]91944[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
rizla is not tobacco thier rolling papers & people ain't rollin tobacco in em either...
and it's a global pastime, rizlas are sold all over the world. I never use anything else.

what about a jamaican rider?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skidmark @ Sep 21 2007, 07:20 AM) [snapback]92033[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
and it's a global pastime, rizlas are sold all over the world. I never use anything else.

what about a jamaican rider?


I was trawling through this thread and waiting to see if anyone said the obvious. And I do like the obvious some times. The right man for Rizla would be Stoner.

...... As to why the Japanese never seem to produce a champion rider, it's probably the same reason the Chinese rarely produce a superstar concert musician. Watch the films of Chinese musicians being trained to play violin. The Chinese teach music the same way they teach martial arts. It's all about mechanical reproduction of a foreign art form. Same thing is applicable to racing. They're good at uninspired imitation - whereas the other countries for reasons of culture, produce "Originals" or natural geniuses of racing. As much as you can point to all the amazing new things the Japanese do on a technical level - there is an undeniable element in Asian culture that rejects auto-diadactic thinking, or breaking away from old standards, and as hard as they try, that element always seems to hold them back in the field of sports.

Having lived there for a while and checked out a little bit of the racing scene, I have a few guesses.

Basically I think that bike racing is a severely limited career option in Japan. Japanese society is extremely rigid for the most part, and going against the prescribed order of things is sometimes difficult or impossible to do. For instance, in Japan schoolchildren take entrance exams for highschool, college, and for jobs. These determine to a large extenet how far one can go. And, missing out on taking them at certain age levels can really set one back. I think a lot of potential riders are forced to worry about school and jobs rather than racing. If you want to make bike racing a career you really have to make it your career and go all out. Nakano for instance chose to go pro instead of finish college for engineering. Had he not done well with racing he'd be in a bit of a spot trying to go back and finish college/find a job. Companies would be asking why he's doing it so late. It wouldn't be accepted.

Also, the Japanese national superbike series is pretty weak overall. It doesn't have the following that US or European series' do. As such, there isn't much money being thrown around. So again, not a very attractive career choice. You'd have to hope to be scouted and "adopted" by one of the big factories in order to make a go of it.

It's kind of surprising really. Pocket bike racing for little kids is really popular. They seem to get started at an even earlier age roadracing than kids in other countries. I think societal/educational pressure pushes lots of kids out of racing, or just makes it into a hobby for a lot of kids.

As krazy said, it seems to be kind of a weekend warrior thing. Lots of trackdays and amateur series stuff, but not many pros out there.

Thats my take (guess) on it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skidmark @ Sep 21 2007, 06:20 AM) [snapback]92033[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>


what about a jamaican rider?

yuah man

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol)<div class='quotemain'>It has to be more than a nationality or money thing.Honda and KHI have more money than those sponsors combined.Honda could run a factory team without a cent of sponsor money if they decided to..

True if a factory really wanted a rider, they could pay out of their pocket for it. Yamaha did with Rossi BEFORE they had any sponsors. But, factories would be irresponsible to their shareholders if they turn down sponsorship money.

HRC has been winning championships for ever and is not desperate enough to fork out money from their own pocket, if they can get sponsors to.