Is KTM on the Brink of Withdrawal from MotoGP?

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I've read that the Austrian automotive industry employes 37,000 which would suggest that some of those laid off might find local employment especially if they are in Upper Austria or Styria. Others may have to relocate which isn't practicable for all

Austrian unemployment is 5.1%
 
I've read that the Austrian automotive industry employes 37,000 which would suggest that some of those laid off might find local employment especially if they are in Upper Austria or Styria. Others may have to relocate which isn't practicable for all

Austrian unemployment is 5.1%
How many of those workers are drivers, facility management employees of different ilk, assembly line workers, administrative staff, etc. ?

And how many relevant positions within the industry is there for the KTM workers to apply for?
 
I am in strong agreement that the governments should bail out the workers, after all the governments job is to look after its citizens and tax payers. Unfortunately, on top of being a complex, complicated job with differing opinions on how to best carry out that job, all governments are rife with corruption, manipulation and misconduct, caused by politicians wanting more money, a better lifestyle and better future for their children. The same as we all want really, the only difference is the cost of that is on everyday citizens rather than the ones with self interests.
Actually, most governments in the Nordics and most governments in Western Europe isn't rife with corruption, manipulation and misconduct. Our democracies do have a functioning oversight and system of courts.

We are light-years from the countries in the large parts of the world. Important to see the vast difference and not to devalue ourselves.

The potential help the Austrian state would give the company is based on the self interest of the Austrian economy. Not some scheme hatched in the shadows.

It makes sense to retain the ecosystem surrounding a large entity such as KTM, for the state, both retaining the competent employees and the long chain of interdependents.
 
What I find contradictory and pretty much nonsensical is that, while transitioning to EVs on the grounds this will help global warming, simultaneously in a number of markets huge SUVs or worse still even huger pick up trucks which are of little or no utility where many of the owners of said vehicles reside in cities are dominating the market.

The contretemps in Ukraine probably thwarts efforts to reduce world wide carbon emissions to a considerable degree as well.
I think it's a couple of things. Governments are beginning to mandate collectively, Automakers reduce their emissions. And by collectively, I mean an average across their range. It's the sole reason Aston Martin produce the Cygnet (basically a Smart car), to offset the emissions produced by their mainstream models.

Of course, that EV R&D requires considerable capital which the auto companies need to raise. However, I think they have taken the piss proverbially in using that as an excuse to price gouge customers on ICE cars. Sadly, despite what you see on Reddit, a lot of the paying public, especially in the US, don't want small, economical cars. The market has moved towards SUV's and pickup trucks, at least hear in the states. Kia introduced the Telluride a few years back, and demand for it was far outweighing supply. It was just 'the car' to have for suburban families it seems. Another issue is that again, in the US, pickup trucks have moved from utility vehicles to luxury vehicles and are priced as such. My friend whom I mentioned in a previous post who bought a 2021 F150 has been used purely as a luxury vehicle. He hasn't hauled anything aside from luggage and groceries in it, has never towed anything and he even got it ceramic coated when he bought it. Nothing wrong with that, but that's the market that trucks are now aimed at.

People are buying SUV's and pickups, so that's what the manufacturers are making, selling, and charging huge amounts for. I think at some point the bubble is going to burst though, and we are already seeing it in some cases.


How many of those workers are drivers, facility management employees of different ilk, assembly line workers, administrative staff, etc. ?

And how many relevant positions within the industry is there for the KTM workers to apply for?
Goes back to saturation in the local market like I said. I graduated from university in 2004 right as Rover, the UK car company, went belly up. Over 6,000 jobs were lost which flooded the market. As a result it took me a year to get a job in Engineering.

We are light-years from the countries in the large parts of the world. Important to see the vast difference and not to devalue ourselves.
You make a very good point. Any philosopher or person with knowledge on the history of Greek for example, would consider Western Governments as a streamlined version of the future.
 
Our cars at work are all the smallish SUVs and the l/100kms they get really does shock me. They're getting the same mileage as I was getting on my 600rr (admittedly I used to fang it everywhere), I know that doesn't address the huge pickups and the massive SUV's but they are getting better mileage than some of the smaller cars of yesteryear. I just bought a brand new Kia Picanto, it is a 1.5 litre tiny little box of a thing but these Audi's that are much bigger than my little car are getting better mileage due to more gears than my 4 speed Kia and I suspect a better developed engine.

I agree that cars for the most part are just too big these days. I had a VL commodore which was considered at the time a decent size family car. It was slightly smaller than my nan's Hyundai i40 which is now to be on the smaller side of cars. It is 3-400kgs lighter, which I know is heavily down to safety features, onboard computers etc. Of all my cars I have ever had, my VL was my favourite to drive, it had just enough modern things such as power steering, air con, electric windows to still be comfortable but I could see anywhere on the road, I felt more connected to the road and to driving. It had an RB25 turbo manual in it, so it was a great to drive when I was putting the foot into it but even when not I just found it comfortable..... God I want another first gen commodore......

I guess the argument about something like the Ukraine war, endless middle eastern wars, volcanic eruptions etc. that completely undoes the good that many of the environmental/carbon emission's policies are working towards is that it would be even worse if we didn't make these steps and those things still happen.
Sure of course we should act about something which is within our control as was done in regard to CFCs. I have some doubts about the overall environmental impact of current technology EVs but perhaps they are on the way to something better. I hire cars frequently and some of the small SUVs are remarkably fuel efficient as you say, more so than conventional small cars like Corollas. VL Commodores with that engine which was rather an advance on the previous Holden lump of iron were a great thing particularly at the time I agree.

I just find huge gas guzzling SUVS and pick ups in the city never used for off roading or carrying loads an anomaly in current circumstances, even apart from the fact that many can’t drive them competently and still feel entitled to take short cuts at speed down inner city laneways or park them inappropriately. Fairly recently the Toyota Hi-Lux and Isuzu D-Max were the best selling new vehicles in Australia.

Rant over. I am a revhead myself of course.
 
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Rumor mill says Merc will drop 10,000 jobs, most likely in Germany. Whether correct or not, things are pointing towards a reduction in employment in Germany which won't help re-employment of sacked KTM workers in Austria
 
Rumor mill says Merc will drop 10,000 jobs, most likely in Germany. Whether correct or not, things are pointing towards a reduction in employment in Germany which won't help re-employment of sacked KTM workers in Austria
We're in a deep economic crisis and we ain't seen the worst yet. There will be a massive loss of job, especially in my state where VW is pretty much shutting down their all-electric "pioneer" plant.
 
We're in a deep economic crisis and we ain't seen the worst yet. There will be a massive loss of job, especially in my state where VW is pretty much shutting down their all-electric "pioneer" plant.
So much of this has rested on more than a century of a deserved reputation for great engineering and the prestige associated with the German brands, but who knows how this proceeds in an EV world even if that is the correct way to go. I hire cars frequently for my work and while the Chinese etc ICE vehicles are still crude to drive with substandard ergonomics the EVs are mostly quite refined. They don’t float my boat but it looks difficult to me for the traditional manufacturers to compete with the Chinese and Tesla in the new ballpark.
 
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Hope you are safe employment wise. What state are you in?
Saxony

VW has about 11,000 employees in that state, 9,400 of those are in the Zwickau plant plus many more who work for suppliers.

The Zwickau plant got going in 1990 building on many decades of automotive tradition in the city where August Horch founded Audi in 1909 and where the Trabant was built after WW2.

Around 2017 it was announced Zwickau would become VWs first all-electric plant with the last Golf being produced there in 2020.

The day the transition to EVs was announced my late granddad told me that they chose Zwickau because the plant in the east would be the easiest to dump if things were to go south.

Right now they're building the VW ID.3/Cupra Born, the VW ID.4/ID.5 and the Audi Q4.
Under the agreement reached by VW and the metal workers' union, production of the Golf will move from Wolfsburg to Mexico. To compensate, Wolfsburg will get the ID.3 and the Cupra.
ID.4 production is moved exclusively to Emden leaving only the Audi Q4 in Zwickau, which is the worst-selling of these models.
Wolfsburg and Emden are both in Niedersachsen and that state owns 12 % of VW's shares and 20 % of the voting rights.

Last week it was rumored Zwickau might also lose the Q4, with production possibly being moved to Tennessee.

Thankfully I have nothing to do with the automotive industry. I became a student nurse after dropping out of law school.

Quite a lengthy explanation but I hope it was helpful.
 
I just bought a brand new Kia Picanto, it is a 1.5 litre tiny little box of a thing but these Audi's that are much bigger than my little car are getting better mileage due to more gears than my 4 speed Kia and I suspect a better developed engine.

My car was in the shop last week so I drove my grandma's car for a day. 2016 Opel Karl with a 1.0 liter engine and 75hp.
Love that thing, feels like a driving a go-kart as long as it doesn't go uphill.
With the car weighing literally nothing it consumes just five liters of gas over 100 km.
We still have my grandpa's old six-cylinder diesel 3 series BMW which can do 1,000 km on one tank of gas.
Modern ICEs are extremely efficient and they've only gotten better in recent years.
I think it's a couple of things. Governments are beginning to mandate collectively, Automakers reduce their emissions. And by collectively, I mean an average across their range. It's the sole reason Aston Martin produce the Cygnet (basically a Smart car), to offset the emissions produced by their mainstream models.


People are buying SUV's and pickups, so that's what the manufacturers are making, selling, and charging huge amounts for. I think at some point the bubble is going to burst though, and we are already seeing it in some cases.
Here in Germany it's the small and compact-ish SUVs that are selling in huge quantities.
Imo it's because their easy to get in and out of and offer a higher seating position. That makes them attractive for old people who are a huge demographic.
Large luxury SUV might see a little bit of a decline with stricter emissions regulations leading to higher prices.

So much of this has rested on more than a century of a deserved reputation for great engineering and the prestige associated with the German brands, but who knows how this proceeds in an EV world even if that is the correct way to go. I hire cars frequently for my work and while the Chinese etc ICE vehicles are still crude to drive with substandard ergonomics the EVs are mostly quite refined. They don’t float my boat but it looks difficult to me for the traditional manufacturers to compete with the Chinese and Tesla in the new ballpark.
I'm not generally against EVs, they could be extremely practical, especially in city traffic, if prices were to come down.

What I disagree with is EV mandates and the German manufacturers, VW especially, just doubled down on EVs where the demand simply wasn't there yet.
 
Agree with you on the compact SUV's. We have a Ford Escape (Kuga in Europe) which I bought specifically for the higher seating position making it easier to load kids and luggage in and out of. It has a 4 cylinder turbo it in at gets reasonable fuel mileage. I have a V8 gas guzzler SUV, because I need it to tow my racing trailer. But I do chuckle at the amount of suburban parents with huge SUV's or even pickups, only using them for getting groceries and the school runs.
 
Agree with you on the compact SUV's. We have a Ford Escape (Kuga in Europe) which I bought specifically for the higher seating position making it easier to load kids and luggage in and out of. It has a 4 cylinder turbo it in at gets reasonable fuel mileage. I have a V8 gas guzzler SUV, because I need it to tow my racing trailer. But I do chuckle at the amount of suburban parents with huge SUV's or even pickups, only using them for getting groceries and the school runs.
That stuff really brings out the curmudgeon in me. Suburbanite dimwits who drive house-sized SUVs and ginormous pickup trucks for the sake of consumerist conformity, status or because they'd rather be surrounded by multi-tons of steel than actually learn how to drive defensively.
 
I am finding myself starting to come around a little on EVs. I still think there are drawbacks and I think the mining required for lithium batteries among other things means that EVs are not as green as they first seem. I'm not sure if there are any studies out there on complete lifetime savings, IE emissions from gathering required resources, to manufacture to usage and then finally disposal but that would probably make for an interesting read.
 
I daily an EV, it's wicked quick. And quiet. You can get away with a lot of hooliganism when your car doesn't make any noise.

As for emissions, they are not perfect. But it creates emissions to manufacture ICE vehicles too. If I Remember Correctly the break-even point was around 40-60k miles, after that EVs are essentially paid for in terms of emissions, and you can go to a straight tailpipe comparison, where of course there is no comparison.

I agree that mandates are a bad idea. If anything we should price in the externalities (in the U.S. both our political parties really love to subsidize fossil fuels), and let people figure what's best for them. Mandates just alienate people.

At this point my biggest problem with EVs is how locked down they are. Tesla won't let you use their charging network if they find out that your car was salvaged and rebuilt. It's absurd. Imagine not being able to buy gas because you did an engine swap.
 
@JFM01 that's quite a detailed explanation of the car industry in your area. Certainly looks like a concerned company with that amount of restructuring. If I was working for VW I'd be thinking about my career path. Also if I have similar skills to those who will loose their jobs such as KTM employees.

EV's are reputed to be more expensive in the EU than in other places such as Australia and as stated that pricing is the main reason for the low sales. If I recall correctly for 2025 EV's are required to be 25% of sales, or some sort of emissions calculation that will be similar to 25% and this means that Tesla credits will be costly. Is there any such restriction of the sale of motorbikes in the EU? I'm aware that the UK is banning ICE motorcycles from 2035 but I don't know what's happening in other countries
 
I daily an EV, it's wicked quick. And quiet. You can get away with a lot of hooliganism when your car doesn't make any noise.

As for emissions, they are not perfect. But it creates emissions to manufacture ICE vehicles too. If I Remember Correctly the break-even point was around 40-60k miles, after that EVs are essentially paid for in terms of emissions, and you can go to a straight tailpipe comparison, where of course there is no comparison.

I agree that mandates are a bad idea. If anything we should price in the externalities (in the U.S. both our political parties really love to subsidize fossil fuels), and let people figure what's best for them. Mandates just alienate people.

At this point my biggest problem with EVs is how locked down they are. Tesla won't let you use their charging network if they find out that your car was salvaged and rebuilt. It's absurd. Imagine not being able to buy gas because you did an engine swap.
Tesla is all sorts of problems IMO. Not because of Musks political ........ but things like you have mentioned, or that the company can shut down your car etc.
 
EV's are reputed to be more expensive in the EU than in other places such as Australia and as stated that pricing is the main reason for the low sales. If I recall correctly for 2025 EV's are required to be 25% of sales, or some sort of emissions calculation that will be similar to 25% and this means that Tesla credits will be costly. Is there any such restriction of the sale of motorbikes in the EU? I'm aware that the UK is banning ICE motorcycles from 2035 but I don't know what's happening in other countries

This year all new cars for private customers in Norway are meant to be electric. 100%. As of now 97% is.

You can incentivise EVs by making it more affordable to own, and depending on the country, electricity can be cheaper than fuel.

I daily an EV, it's wicked quick. And quiet. You can get away with a lot of hooliganism when your car doesn't make any noise.

As for emissions, they are not perfect. But it creates emissions to manufacture ICE vehicles too. If I Remember Correctly the break-even point was around 40-60k miles, after that EVs are essentially paid for in terms of emissions, and you can go to a straight tailpipe comparison, where of course there is no comparison.

I agree that mandates are a bad idea. If anything we should price in the externalities (in the U.S. both our political parties really love to subsidize fossil fuels), and let people figure what's best for them. Mandates just alienate people.

At this point my biggest problem with EVs is how locked down they are. Tesla won't let you use their charging network if they find out that your car was salvaged and rebuilt. It's absurd. Imagine not being able to buy gas because you did an engine swap.

I agree, EVs can be so much fun to drive, if you just give it a try.

Emissions for batteries are bound to come down, for several reasons, mainly due to the invention of new materials and new types of batteries. Old batteries are already being used for other purposes then their intended use of getting the Mrs and kids home.

Mandating drives policies, gives industries the upper leg. Porsche made electric cars 100 years ago. Expanding the petro-industry and the service station network was a politically driven choice. EVs need the same push if it wants to compete. I'd love to see hydro being another alternative. So fast charging, so long lasting per tank. Just slightly worried about the safety...

At ours Tesla's Supercharger network is open for business for all, as it should be. You do have some interesting policy regarding competition in the US, if Tesla can ban you from the charger.
 

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