Is it true there are bridgestone tracks and michelin tracks?

I think that there are definately tracks that suit one tyre brand over another. Last year, Casey dominated at certain tracks such as Laguna or Turkey, which the michelin riders definately had problems. Likewise at Germany the bridgestone riders had problems, Casey still put in good rides but was not able to fight for the win.

So to say that there are BS tracks and Michelin tracks is true but it is more complicated than that eg tire compounds, bike and rider styles etc all affect tire performance.

Yeah. Over the course of the seasons a given tire manufacturer may dominate at some tracks, be marginally better or worse at others, be equivalent at some, and be dominated at some. In the end some forms of "domination" might end up being as related to the charactics of the machines wearing the rubber as anything else. There's no doubt there are real advatages in both directions though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rossi_fan @ Apr 16 2008, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It seems that since rossi has yet to win a race, there is talk of "oh these were michelin tracks".


Is that true? If memory serves me correct, casey won pretty much everywhere last year.
Well, in fact...yes there is...
Michelin is best in cool track, while Bridgestone is superior in hot/warm track and -funny- in wet/rain. Note that Bridgestone tyres generating heat faster than Michelin (I mean the tyres) so the Bridgstone riders get grips faster than Michelin riders.
Casey won -all of them- in the hot track (Approx above 40`). While in the cool track, he was struggling. In fact in Sachsenring he was screwed enough (he did not get in the podium ).

There are a few tracks which clearly favoured one of the tyre brands last year, but i don't believe Bridgestone were as superior as they may have appeared due to Stoners performance. Furthermore last years patterns may not be repeated this year, a lot can and has changed.

I think alot of the tire advantage or disadvantage has gone out the window with the new tire rules.Bridgestone,who is supposed to be better on hot tracks,won the Qatar race on the coolest track they will race on this year.The other 2 races have also been on cool tracks and Michelin has won both.It's way to early to say there is a pattern.Ducati's problem is with the chassis,not the tires.The old overnight fly ins was what made the difference in years past on certain tracks with Michelin dominating the European tracks and Bridgestone doing well in other parts of the world.We will have to get into the dead of summer before we can claim one has the advantge over the other.This year in particular,i think the bike is going to be the commom denominator as to who does well on which track.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Apr 16 2008, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think alot of the tire advantage or disadvantage has gone out the window with the new tire rules.Bridgestone,who is supposed to be better on hot tracks,won the Qatar race on the coolest track they will race on this year.The other 2 races have also been on cool tracks and Michelin has won both.It's way to early to say there is a pattern.Ducati's problem is with the chassis,not the tires.The old overnight fly ins was what made the difference in years past on certain tracks with Michelin dominating the European tracks and Bridgestone doing well in other parts of the world.We will have to get into the dead of summer before we can claim one has the advantge over the other.This year in particular,i think the bike is going to be the commom denominator as to who does well on which track.
Well..that did slip in my mind..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Apr 16 2008, 07:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think alot of the tire advantage or disadvantage has gone out the window with the new tire rules.Bridgestone,who is supposed to be better on hot tracks,won the Qatar race on the coolest track they will race on this year.The other 2 races have also been on cool tracks and Michelin has won both.It's way to early to say there is a pattern.Ducati's problem is with the chassis,not the tires.The old overnight fly ins was what made the difference in years past on certain tracks with Michelin dominating the European tracks and Bridgestone doing well in other parts of the world.We will have to get into the dead of summer before we can claim one has the advantge over the other.This year in particular,i think the bike is going to be the commom denominator as to who does well on which track.
Great post Pov,

I don't think there are "tire tracks" but rather circumstance in a host of factors that sometimes-precipitate one brand which we speculated on and make conclusions. (...., I've read people here make sweeping conclusions over two races). But over a season, and in hindsight, it is tempting to make conclusions. But I don't buy into the idea because for each race I feel there are too many factors from year to year, from race to race to isolate just one brand and say, this one works at this track!

I believe the sample is WAY TOO SMALL to make a discernable conclusion. We have Michelin guys and Bridgestone guys that never get a whiff of the podium, no matter what tire. How do these guys get factored in? The reality is we make conclusion over about 4 consistent guys, two Michelin riders (Lorenzo, this year, Peders, & Rossi, last year vs. Bridgestone riders (Stoner and Rossi this year) and maybe the other occasional podium finishers. That it! So we don’t really factor in a quarter of an already small field. Does it really ever matter where: Nakano, West, Guintoli, Elias, and Depuniet place? The only real swing riders are Hayden, Edwards, Hopkins and Capirossi.

My point is, to judge and make a definitive conclusion as to where certain tracks “favor a tire” is not a leap I’m willing to make.

they should ALL run Dunlop...end of story

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 16 2008, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Great post Pov,

I don't think there are "tire tracks" but rather circumstance in a host of factors that sometimes-precipitate one brand which we speculated on and make conclusions. (...., I've read people here make sweeping conclusions over two races). But over a season, and in hindsight, it is tempting to make conclusions. But I don't buy into the idea because for each race I feel there are too many factors from year to year, from race to race to isolate just one brand and say, this one works at this track!

I believe the sample is WAY TOO SMALL to make a discernable conclusion. We have Michelin guys and Bridgestone guys that never get a whiff of the podium, no matter what tire. How do these guys get factored in? The reality is we make conclusion over about 4 consistent guys, two Michelin riders (Lorenzo, this year, Peders, & Rossi, last year vs. Bridgestone riders (Stoner and Rossi this year) and maybe the other occasional podium finishers. That it! So we don’t really factor in a quarter of an already small field. Does it really ever matter where: Nakano, West, Guintoli, Elias, and Depuniet place? The only real swing riders are Hayden, Edwards, Hopkins and Capirossi.

My point is, to judge and make a definitive conclusion as to where certain tracks “favor a tire” is not a leap I’m willing to make.
--you make some good points, ive never really bought into this "its a michilin,its a bridgstone track" thing either. the only time i can see that may have had a degree of truth was whether over nighters could be utilized due to distance from the factory.

I think last year was an abberration that made it look like the Stones were so much better when in probability,it was Michelin simply getting caught having to change their method of operation MO{Modus Operendi].They had done business one way for so long,im not sure they even realized how big a deal it was to have the fly ins.

This is my take:

<u>Michelin tracks</u>
Jerez
Estoril
LeMans
Mugello
Donny
Assen
Sachsenring

<u>Bridgestone tracks</u>
Laguna (resurfaced)
Brno
Misano (resurfaced)
Indy (probably, a big part is resurfaced)
Motegi

<u>neutral tracks</u>
Qatar
China
Catalunya
Sepang

<u>Who knows?</u>
Valencia
PI


In reality there is no way of knowing. The only championship caliber packages Bridgestone have are Stoner's Ducati and Rossi's Yamaha. Everyone else is midpack or backmarking.

Michelin consistently work with championship winning bikes and riders.

If Kawasaki have so many dollars to chuck around why don't they chuck some money at Michelin and see if that makes a difference? The team has always seemed to love Frechies.

Suzuki on the other hand are hopeless. They are always trying to run Rizla with spare change they find in the couch. Everyone on the squad pitches money into a jar to fund the tires anyway. No chance for them.

Stop trying to figure this out, just ask Babel (our resident tire designer/engineer/technician AKA Tire Eagle Eyes), he knows ALL ABOUT TIRES and how they perform. Thing is, he only knows if they are on Rossi with the condition that he is behind.... then we can conclude after the empirical evidence he provides about tire "shredding" and "catastrophic failure" that the track he is on is certainly NOT suited for his tire brand.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 17 2008, 03:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stop trying to figure this out, just ask Babel (our resident tire designer/engineer/technician AKA Tire Eagle Eyes), he knows ALL ABOUT TIRES and how they perform. Thing is, he only knows if they are on Rossi with the condition that he is behind.... then we can conclude after the empirical evidence he provides about tire "shredding" and "catastrophic failure" that the track he is on is certainly NOT suited for his tire brand.

Gotten your ... kicked lately? You sound a bit sore.