How does tyre performance effect racing?
- Thread starter Mental Anarchist
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Joined Feb 2007
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Tennessee
Not only yes, but hell yes, for the reasons you stated above. It jumbled things up and added another dimension to race day.
Great thread - thanks Mental.
More tires on the grid would certainly help mix things up a bit.
ONS shouldn't be available and ImO also no qualifiers
Quali's are good for 2-3 lap sprints - so you run the risk of putting a sprinter at the start of real race.
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
just my personal opinion : i think the level of performance of both the bikes and tyres in championships such as wsbk ,bsb,idm,ama are the really the root of "the problem" with the gp tyres for the last years.
from what i've come to understand is that there is always this tradeoff between feeling and outright grip and i've got the impression that this forces the gp tyres to be just good regarding performance alone and that already in a time where smooth ,efficient riding is necessary hence killing a bit of the spectacle for the sake of laptimes.
there needs to be more clear lines between production championships and gp bikes. in my opinion if the superbikes would go more in the direction of superstock with maybe even common track day tyres it would still be possible for gp tyres to be the best performance tyres in the world and source of research. but still they could afford to create tyres that give great feeling above everything else,if that makes sense
i don't know if it is sensible to compare the two, but i could very well argue that by slowing down the outright performance per fia regulations , f1 has become better and better compared to what it was in on the pinnalce of the michelin/bridgestone wars. in my opinion really it should only be one supplier that is able to present a couple of different compounds that work
from what i've come to understand is that there is always this tradeoff between feeling and outright grip and i've got the impression that this forces the gp tyres to be just good regarding performance alone and that already in a time where smooth ,efficient riding is necessary hence killing a bit of the spectacle for the sake of laptimes.
there needs to be more clear lines between production championships and gp bikes. in my opinion if the superbikes would go more in the direction of superstock with maybe even common track day tyres it would still be possible for gp tyres to be the best performance tyres in the world and source of research. but still they could afford to create tyres that give great feeling above everything else,if that makes sense
i don't know if it is sensible to compare the two, but i could very well argue that by slowing down the outright performance per fia regulations , f1 has become better and better compared to what it was in on the pinnalce of the michelin/bridgestone wars. in my opinion really it should only be one supplier that is able to present a couple of different compounds that work
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
I wasnt suggesting using q's on race day, i meant it would jumble up qualifying, leading to a more interesting race day. But if somebody like Elias wanted to run them in a race, have at it.At least his sponsor would be happy for 2-3 laps
But then again, a q tire would only bring Elias within a couple of seconds of the field on race tires.
I wasnt suggesting using q's on race day, i meant it would jumble up qualifying, leading to a more interesting race day. But if somebody like Elias wanted to run them in a race, have at it.At least his sponsor would be happy for 2-3 laps
But then again, a q tire would only bring Elias within a couple of seconds of the field on race tires.
If you still restricted the teams to a single manufacture ie Bridgestone yes. However it is fair to assume that other tyre manufacturers would certainly tailor their product to their teams for greater chance of success, and riders like Elias would have a better shot. While BS is the sole supplier, with little or no development of their rubber, the same riders will always be at the front.
One of my major hopes for 2012 was the scrapping of the single tyre rule, sadly it seems this will more than likely not be a reality.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Yea, unfortunately, the deal is done for BS to continue as sole supplier. I ....... hate it. I hated it then, i hate it now, and i will hate it in the future.
I wasnt suggesting using q's on race day, i meant it would jumble up qualifying, leading to a more interesting race day. But if somebody like Elias wanted to run them in a race, have at it.At least his sponsor would be happy for 2-3 laps
But then again, a q tire would only bring Elias within a couple of seconds of the field on race tires.
Neither was I suggesting using Q's on race day - I'm just sceptical about the sense of allowing someone who has qualified on "special" tires to be at the front of the grid. That's the basis of my being against "allowing a sprinter" to start at the front of a race grid.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
I dont have a problem with it all, it adds another dimension to the event. Long distance track and field events have hares that set the tone for the race, alot of the time, they dont even finish the event, their job was to pull the train and hopefully set a pace that will result in a record. As long as everyone gets the same opportunity to use the special tires, why not give the guy a chance who is better at a 2 lap sprint a chance at glory. Who knows, maybe something will happen behind him that gives him a chance at actually winning. The sport is very predictable at the moment, add a little unknown to the mix
I don't think another tire war is possible unless Dorna really step up their game with homologation techniques. Imo, Bridgestone screwed it up for everyone when they made the Rossi-Stoner front tire (as it was called) that had really flexible edges that allowed for a much bigger contact patch. How do you regulate that? If the contact patch can be made significantly larger with flexible side-walls and rubber compounds, how are you supposed to control the contact patch with the tire profile?
Even F1 couldn't keep a controlled tire war. They have all kinds of crazy regulations to control lateral flex, vertical flex, torsional flex, and even the expansion of the tire carcass when the car is moving at top speed; but it still wasn't enough to keep the manufacturers interested or to keep things cost-effective and safe. It doesn't look good for the future of tire wars. If F1 and MotoGP both abandoned tire wars, I'm not sure it's possible ATM. They will have to develop new technologies to police the tires.
The only way you can do a tire war ATM, imo, is if the sanctioning body or commercial rights company commissions control tires. They would create 3 carcass constructions for the front, 3 carcass constructions for the rear, and then a dozen compounds. Wet tires and intermediates would be spec. It would be up to the teams to select (let's say) two front tires and two rear tires from the 36 possible combinations for each tire. The manufacturer is responsible for building them to the highest quality and advising the teams as to which compounds and tire pressures will work best in various conditions. It would definitely be a battle between the tire manufacturers, but it isn't technically a tire war per se. Also, the level of tire technology could be a bit suspect. It is unlikely that Michelin, Bridgestone, or Pirelli would give away it's best prototype kit. It is possible; however, that Dunlop would provide Moto2-level technology. Would Michelin, Bridgestone, or Pirelli bother to build Moto2-caliber technology? Could Dorna even police that many variables?
I think control tires are here to stay unfortunately. They cannot be regulated. Even the basic height, width, and profile dimensions cannot really be regulated anymore.
