Hayden's performance

We all know how Nicky Hayden' performance this year. And how he loose his title(with no fighting at all). For me it's all because he actually didn't have "champ skill" - even he is the champ. Last year if Rossi did not fall in Valencia or blown engine in Laguna (or Brno?), in 2007 he won't get a chance to have #1 plate in his bike. What about you guys?And next year?

I can't agree with you there.
Nicky may not have dominated last years season, but in the end he did enough and deserved to be champ, he also had a fair bit of bad luck himself, remember Estoril, and the crappy development parts Honda had him testing, instead of helping him to win, at times they seemed to be making it more difficult.
Yes, he had a terrible season this year, but I don't think it's down to a lack of 'champ skill', but rather a combination of a failure to really get to grips with the 800 early enough in the season, poor performance from his Michelins and a well below par bike, not to mention one that size wise he never felt comfortable on.
It may be wishful thinking, but I believe that without the new tyre rules and the change to 800 Nicky would have defended his WC well.
I hope that next year he shows the world how much he deserved to be champ and silences the critics for good.

Hayden's deserving (or otherwise) the title was discussed to death at the end of the 2006 season. He had most points at the end of the season and he therefore deserved the championship. He kept his butt (and of course I am obliged to remind everyone just what a gorgeous butt it is.. ) in the saddle when it mattered, and so his championship cannot be questioned. However yes, there was a lot of talk about him not having champ quality. He won a championship through winning 2 races, which left a lot of people feeling a little odd. We have been spoilt throughout the past years by having a reigning champion who totally dominates a season, not by being consistently 'good enough' but by being regularly on the top spot of the podium. Yet this is a points championship, and therefore, if you're consistent enough, with the right conditions, it can earn you a championship. That cannot be argued with. Nicky's bloody hard working and I was sad to see him get nowhere this year. But then again this was a transition year and even some brighter stars than him have suffered. You could say a lot of things about how the number 1 plate ended up on Nicky's honda. Personally, I think if Sete hadn't screwed up so badly in Catalunya, Loris or even Marco might have been challenging for the 06 crown. Nicky really was consistent, but his competiton was out of action, some through no fault of their own (loris and marco) and rossi through breaking his wrist at Assen (for which nobody could concievably blame anyone else). But that at the end of the day is racing. Nicky had some luck, or the others had bad luck, but I think overall he made his luck by working hard and using his head and not taking unnecessary risks, and so, even if I believe it was just for one season and I don't realistically ever see him getting the title back, for that one season it was well deserved.

Agree with BikerGirl.

A championship is not about who wins the most races, but is about who gains the most points throughout the year and by that virtue NH was the deserving champion.






Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gaz @ Dec 7 2007, 10:02 PM) [snapback]103677[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Agree with BikerGirl.

A championship is not about who wins the most races, but is about who gains the most points throughout the year and by that virtue NH was the deserving champion.
Garry


A possible reasoning as to why this is so:

Years ago the first races to find out " who is the best in the world" were mamoth long distance races held in a tour format over many and varied a terrain.
So to win you had to race the Grand Prix over a huge distance and get there in the best time.

But this was pretty useless because ....

1. it ignored folk who could not "get there" ( to where the race was held ), and they may have been far better riders than those who could ...

2. The numbers seeing it was minimal .. so not much money in it.

Many riders were better than others over specific sections but the best rider would allways catch up somewhere .... and win at the end.

To make it fairer to include riders from all parts of the world the one big distance was then broken up into several at first ( then many ) singular races, in different locations, and the outcomes added to give an accumulative best performance over a now virtual "single big race".
(Its a simillar situation to the original Indy race .... now it is Indy car championship and is raced all over the world.)


Each smaller part event also allows many more spectators and hence is very profotable too... ( but in terms of the "fairness" aspect this doesn't matter ) just provides the funds to do it the "fair" way.

So "points wins" emulates that one big race over a huge distance by breaking it into more definite sections. It is also fair in another way too .... those that break down in a section ... never actually finished the entire race .... however understanding that usually this was no fault of the rider .... giving points for sections started and finished is fairer.

Imagine if somehow in 07 it was still "one big race", then look at who would have been both the winner ... and also the only one to finish. It would also have been impossible to work out who came 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. etc.

Some think 07 was boring ...... just be glad that the original "one big race dissapeared


So in 06 ... yes Rossi won the most sections ..... but he didn't get to the finish line in Lyon before Hayden .. .... or was it Paris ..... I think it was Paris ?? Lyon to Paris I think the first races were??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mochrifqi @ Dec 7 2007, 01:14 AM) [snapback]103659[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
We all know how Nicky Hayden' performance this year. And how he loose his title(with no fighting at all). For me it's all because he actually didn't have "champ skill" - even he is the champ. Last year if Rossi did not fall in Valencia or blown engine in Laguna (or Brno?), in 2007 he won't get a chance to have #1 plate in his bike. What about you guys?And next year?


[attachmentid=2583]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mochrifqi @ Dec 7 2007, 02:14 AM) [snapback]103659[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
We all know how Nicky Hayden' performance this year. And how he loose his title(with no fighting at all). For me it's all because he actually didn't have "champ skill" - even he is the champ. Last year if Rossi did not fall in Valencia or blown engine in Laguna (or Brno?), in 2007 he won't get a chance to have #1 plate in his bike. What about you guys?And next year?


BLAH BLAH BLAH,IF,IF,IF.If my Aunt had a .... she would be my Uncle.

I was thinking about that the other day, at Laguna Nicky surely would have been on for a solid 2nd without the Hopper. He took a pole, by the end of the year was putting in some consistant performances. He has a well proven tenacity, however Melandri whipped him in the championship. & we all remember how much Marco disliked the Honda, about as much as Trick Daddy.

I dunno shrug, I'm leaning more towards "Honda were ...." than "Nicky was ...."

Jerez test day 3
1. Dani Pedrosa 1' 38.562
2. Nicky Hayden 1' 38.848
3. Jorge Lorenzo 1' 39.464


by no means an undeserving or unskilled rider

Nicky was made to ride a 500. He's they right size, he has the right style, etc. etc. etc.

Since coming into Motogp in the 4 stroke era, he has had to change everything about his style while learning to race against the world's best. In 2006 he was best of all regardless of what anyone says.

In 2006 you could tell Nicky was finally comfortable on the bike, and he had adapted his style enough to allow him to ride without fighting the electronics.

His poor performance in 2007was nearly as much from the mental blow he took as well as the poor performance of the bike.

Think about it. He's world champ for the first time ever. He's probably excited as all hell because he finally got #1 status at Repsol after 4 years of riding for them, and then he sits on the 212V and it feels like a children's toy.

I don't know if I could have survived somebody screwin with me like that.

i think nicky deserves more credit then what you give him. like it has been stated a billion times before, its a points championship. and like he said numbers dont lie. he had a terrible season but its over now. he can easily come back and be in the top 4 if he works (and im sure he will) hard enough. honda screwed him up big time and he took it like a pro, i know if i were in that situation i would not have been as nice. for you to say he didnt fight, i guess you didnt watch his race at the island. that was a fight, and he was not the one who gave out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mochrifqi @ Dec 7 2007, 06:14 PM) [snapback]103659[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
We all know how Nicky Hayden' performance this year. And how he loose his title(with no fighting at all). For me it's all because he actually didn't have "champ skill" - even he is the champ. <span style="color:#000000<span style="color:#000000Last year if Rossi did not fall in Valencia or blown engine in Laguna (or Brno?), in 2007 he won't get a chance to have #1 plate in his bike. What about you guys?And next year?



There are no IF'S Hayden was 2006 World Champ end of story.

Last year if Rossi did not fall in Valencia or blown engine in Laguna (or Brno?), in 2007 he won't get a chance to have #1 plate in his bike.

and i guess if casey had not had the best package he would not have won this year. catch my drift? thats racing.

I have to feel sorry for Nicky after the bad luck he got this season. Some members of Orange Army forum have found it quite difficult to talk about this season. I hope things will be better for Nicky next season and I got a feeling that he will.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bikergirl @ Dec 7 2007, 09:47 AM) [snapback]103671[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
....overall he made his luck by working hard and using his head and not taking unnecessary risks, and so, even if I believe it was just for one season and I don't realistically ever see him getting the title back, for that one season it was well deserved.

I couldn´t agree more Bikergirl (also agree with the cute ...! ). Hayden is a great rider and was 2006 champ, no one can take that away from him, ever.

well nicky impressed me in 2007, anything i said about him being a safe rider went out the window.

He was obviously riding a very intelligent season.

This season he had nothing to lose and i enjoyed watching him ride the way i always wanted him to.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Fizz @ Dec 7 2007, 10:21 PM) [snapback]103737[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I have to feel sorry for Nicky after the bad luck he got this season. Some members of Orange Army forum have found it quite difficult to talk about this season. I hope things will be better for Nicky next season and I got a feeling that he will.


+1

Nicky is a good rider than isnt afraid to fight. he worked bloody hard this year even though he knew he wasnt going to really get anywhere, that takes someone special. im just sorry that he didnt win a race with no.1 on his bike...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mochrifqi @ Dec 7 2007, 07:14 AM) [snapback]103659[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
We all know how Nicky Hayden' performance this year. And how he loose his title(with no fighting at all). For me it's all because he actually didn't have "champ skill" - even he is the champ. Last year if Rossi did not fall in Valencia or blown engine in Laguna (or Brno?), in 2007 he won't get a chance to have #1 plate in his bike. What about you guys?And next year?

You plank of wood.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stop_killing_dead_things @ Dec 8 2007, 02:06 PM) [snapback]103782[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Nicky is a good rider than isnt afraid to fight. he worked bloody hard this year even though he knew he wasnt going to really get anywhere, that takes someone special. im just sorry that he didnt win a race with no.1 on his bike...


That number 1 means he got the most points the previous year and so won the title, but it means nothing else. Unfortunately, he did not have what was necessary to be a repeat title winner or even win a race in 2007. We can argue until the end of time that it was the bike, the tyres, his skill or the whole package was at fault. The fact of the matter is he did came 8th in 2007, and that was as good as got for him.

Stoner going into 2008 could run with 1 or any number, but he still has to deliver to keep the title of champion. And who knows, he might have the bike, tyres, and the skill, but lack that little extra something.

That something is the most important part of any title winner...that something is what we saw in Doohan, Ago, King Kenny, Rainey, Sheene, Mike the Bike, Biaggi, Nieto, and most of see in Rossi, and some of us see in Pedrosa and Lorenzo....

The question becomes not about performance, but about that something....does Nicky have it? does Stoner?

Nicky did not have it in 2007. Stoner may have it 2008, since it certainly seemed to be there in 2007 IMO. We shall have to wait and see

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DRILL666 @ Dec 8 2007, 03:20 PM) [snapback]103793[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
You plank of wood.

thanks for that laugh drill!!!