Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Apr 10 2007, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://superbikeplanet.com/2007/Apr/070410bw3.htm
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Might it then be only a matter of time before someone replaces the present set up with a single three part championship with Supersport, Superbike and MotoGP races all on one fantastic weekend?
That sounds almost as silly as an april fools day joke,or?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Might it then be only a matter of time before someone replaces the present set up with a single three part championship with Supersport, Superbike and MotoGP races all on one fantastic weekend?
That sounds almost as silly as an april fools day joke,or?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 10 2007, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That sounds almost as silly as an april fools day joke,or?
I agree. Totally 2 different types of racing what a stupid idea.
I agree. Totally 2 different types of racing what a stupid idea.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mbracing @ Apr 11 2007, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree. Totally 2 different types of racing what a stupid idea.
I don't know if that was ironic or not?
Anyway, my opinion is that I can't see that hapening for two reasons:
1. Flammini would have to give up SBK and sell the rights to Dorna in some kind of deal. I can't see why they ever would want to that.
2. Dorna are pretty deep into developing riders from young age. They want more than the Rookie Cup and the gap from detuned 125 to 600cc is to big for 14 years old kids. They want the smaller support classes to produce comming talents.
If FIM chops 2-strokes after 2010 and replace them with small bore 4-stokes I don't think we can expect even the suggestion of the "all into one" mega event for e few decades. And that is to me A Good Thing. I thought we all wanted more road racing not less?
I don't know if that was ironic or not?
Anyway, my opinion is that I can't see that hapening for two reasons:
1. Flammini would have to give up SBK and sell the rights to Dorna in some kind of deal. I can't see why they ever would want to that.
2. Dorna are pretty deep into developing riders from young age. They want more than the Rookie Cup and the gap from detuned 125 to 600cc is to big for 14 years old kids. They want the smaller support classes to produce comming talents.
If FIM chops 2-strokes after 2010 and replace them with small bore 4-stokes I don't think we can expect even the suggestion of the "all into one" mega event for e few decades. And that is to me A Good Thing. I thought we all wanted more road racing not less?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mbracing @ Apr 11 2007, 03:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree. Totally 2 different types of racing what a stupid idea.
Really?
They are totally different? I mean they are all motorcycles, right? Don't pretty much all racing motorcycles get ridden the same basic way?
Why could'nt they run WSS, WSB and MotoGP in one long weekend of racing by all the same riders with class champs and a overall champ? Seems like it would provide some good racing, increase the field sizes and make for a HUGH fan influx and more money in one place at one time. I think it would be a great way to see who's the best of the best on both "street" and "works" bikes.
SS
Really?
They are totally different? I mean they are all motorcycles, right? Don't pretty much all racing motorcycles get ridden the same basic way?
Why could'nt they run WSS, WSB and MotoGP in one long weekend of racing by all the same riders with class champs and a overall champ? Seems like it would provide some good racing, increase the field sizes and make for a HUGH fan influx and more money in one place at one time. I think it would be a great way to see who's the best of the best on both "street" and "works" bikes.
SS
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Apr 11 2007, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really?
They are totally different? I mean they are all motorcycles, right? Don't pretty much all racing motorcycles get ridden the same basic way?
Why could'nt they run WSS, WSB and MotoGP in one long weekend of racing by all the same riders with class champs and a overall champ? Seems like it would provide some good racing, increase the field sizes and make for a HUGH fan influx and more money in one place at one time. I think it would be a great way to see who's the best of the best on both "street" and "works" bikes.
SS
That might be exciting at first, but only for the novelty value I think. After that wore off, it would just be normal. And although it's not a huge number, riders already do move between the two series, so we can already see who can't hack the GP bikes
Plus, combining them would drastically cut the number of race weekends, which is no fun.
They are totally different? I mean they are all motorcycles, right? Don't pretty much all racing motorcycles get ridden the same basic way?
Why could'nt they run WSS, WSB and MotoGP in one long weekend of racing by all the same riders with class champs and a overall champ? Seems like it would provide some good racing, increase the field sizes and make for a HUGH fan influx and more money in one place at one time. I think it would be a great way to see who's the best of the best on both "street" and "works" bikes.
SS
That might be exciting at first, but only for the novelty value I think. After that wore off, it would just be normal. And although it's not a huge number, riders already do move between the two series, so we can already see who can't hack the GP bikes
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bull Goose @ Apr 11 2007, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That might be exciting at first, but only for the novelty value I think. After that wore off, it would just be normal. And although it's not a huge number, riders already do move between the two series, so we can already see who can't hack the GP bikes
Plus, combining them would drastically cut the number of race weekends, which is no fun.
Another thing is, where do the suport series go? There is simply not time to put them in btween. 125/250/Stock.. they all get very good promoting and tv time due to the top classes, without they would loose sponsors and it all would concentrate on one event.
Another thing is, where do the suport series go? There is simply not time to put them in btween. 125/250/Stock.. they all get very good promoting and tv time due to the top classes, without they would loose sponsors and it all would concentrate on one event.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Apr 11 2007, 11:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Another thing is, where do the suport series go? There is simply not time to put them in btween. 125/250/Stock.. they all get very good promoting and tv time due to the top classes, without they would loose sponsors and it all would concentrate on one event.
Could'nt the support series be run the week prior to the "main" event? Kinda keep the circus in town for 2 weeks vrs just one.
As far as less race dates they could increase race weekends, there are plenty of long breaks that could an event or two could be fit in. Maybe run two weeks in a row with one off. Perhaps 20 to 22 events from March through November?
SS
Could'nt the support series be run the week prior to the "main" event? Kinda keep the circus in town for 2 weeks vrs just one.
As far as less race dates they could increase race weekends, there are plenty of long breaks that could an event or two could be fit in. Maybe run two weeks in a row with one off. Perhaps 20 to 22 events from March through November?
SS
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Apr 11 2007, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Could'nt the support series be run the week prior to the "main" event? Kinda keep the circus in town for 2 weeks vrs just one.
As far as less race dates they could increase race weekends, there are plenty of long breaks that could an event or two could be fit in. Maybe run two weeks in a row with one off. Perhaps 20 to 22 events from March through November?
SS
You're really looking to create quite the monstrosity eh? They do need travel/rest/testing time. This would just all be too much.
The strength of the two championships is that they are separate, with their own characteristics. Combine them and you would lose this.
As far as less race dates they could increase race weekends, there are plenty of long breaks that could an event or two could be fit in. Maybe run two weeks in a row with one off. Perhaps 20 to 22 events from March through November?
SS
You're really looking to create quite the monstrosity eh? They do need travel/rest/testing time. This would just all be too much.
The strength of the two championships is that they are separate, with their own characteristics. Combine them and you would lose this.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Really?
They are totally different? I mean they are all motorcycles, right? Don't pretty much all racing motorcycles get ridden the same basic way
I tend to agree,bike racing is bike racing.The 125 and 250 classes that are so popular in Europe and Asia are not popular at all in the states.I go to quite a few AMA events and back when they ran the 2 stroke support classes is when most people fired up the grills or did the obligatory trip to the pits to get their posters and autographs.The 600 support classes are very popular because that is what sells and the factorys have top notch riders in those classes.I dont think there is any reason why a 14 year old cant cut his teeth on a 600.Unless you follow the regional support series very close,you never here of a kid until he makes the jump to the big time over here anyway.There is a kid named Josh Herrin that got a podium in his first race last year and everbody was looking at each other saying, who the .... is this guy.He is a kid that has been ready for a couple of years but couldnt race in the big show till he turned 16.Compare that to Europe where a kid is a rock star at 14 if he shows promise on a 125 or 250.They could stick those same kids on 600's and the factorys could save a fortune.After all,isnt that why Gp bikes went 4 stroke,so the bikes had something in common with what the fan was buying instead of a one off prototype that they couldnt market to the public.
They are totally different? I mean they are all motorcycles, right? Don't pretty much all racing motorcycles get ridden the same basic way
I tend to agree,bike racing is bike racing.The 125 and 250 classes that are so popular in Europe and Asia are not popular at all in the states.I go to quite a few AMA events and back when they ran the 2 stroke support classes is when most people fired up the grills or did the obligatory trip to the pits to get their posters and autographs.The 600 support classes are very popular because that is what sells and the factorys have top notch riders in those classes.I dont think there is any reason why a 14 year old cant cut his teeth on a 600.Unless you follow the regional support series very close,you never here of a kid until he makes the jump to the big time over here anyway.There is a kid named Josh Herrin that got a podium in his first race last year and everbody was looking at each other saying, who the .... is this guy.He is a kid that has been ready for a couple of years but couldnt race in the big show till he turned 16.Compare that to Europe where a kid is a rock star at 14 if he shows promise on a 125 or 250.They could stick those same kids on 600's and the factorys could save a fortune.After all,isnt that why Gp bikes went 4 stroke,so the bikes had something in common with what the fan was buying instead of a one off prototype that they couldnt market to the public.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Apr 11 2007, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>After all,isnt that why Gp bikes went 4 stroke,so the bikes had something in common with what the fan was buying instead of a one off prototype that they couldnt market to the public.
Yes but the Moto GP bikes still are prototypes, and the Superbikes still are (in a way) what you can buy in a store.
I just seems to me that if you combined Moto GP and Superbike then one of them (probably Superbike) would inevitably become a support class. With them separate, you have two series which each have their own premier class, which in my opinion makes for more and better racing.
Yes but the Moto GP bikes still are prototypes, and the Superbikes still are (in a way) what you can buy in a store.
I just seems to me that if you combined Moto GP and Superbike then one of them (probably Superbike) would inevitably become a support class. With them separate, you have two series which each have their own premier class, which in my opinion makes for more and better racing.
Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 197+
Living the dream in Scotland
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bull Goose @ Apr 11 2007, 06:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes but the Moto GP bikes still are prototypes, and the Superbikes still are (in a way) what you can buy in a store.
I just seems to me that if you combined Moto GP and Superbike then one of them (probably Superbike) would inevitably become a support class. With them separate, you have two series which each have their own premier class, which in my opinion makes for more and better racing.
I think the move to diesels was more about environmental and political reasons. 2 strokes with their total loss lubrication are not viewed as environmentally friendly. Sadly, the new developments in clean burn 2 strokes, (the most famous of which was made by Honda) were swept under the carpet.
Ironically, it is the big H who are one of the most fervent anti 2 stroke voices. Look how long they perciveered with uncompetitive diesels in GP before they built the NS and NSRs.
You all know my opinion, its in my sig.
Pete
I just seems to me that if you combined Moto GP and Superbike then one of them (probably Superbike) would inevitably become a support class. With them separate, you have two series which each have their own premier class, which in my opinion makes for more and better racing.
I think the move to diesels was more about environmental and political reasons. 2 strokes with their total loss lubrication are not viewed as environmentally friendly. Sadly, the new developments in clean burn 2 strokes, (the most famous of which was made by Honda) were swept under the carpet.
Ironically, it is the big H who are one of the most fervent anti 2 stroke voices. Look how long they perciveered with uncompetitive diesels in GP before they built the NS and NSRs.
You all know my opinion, its in my sig.
Pete
I don't like this merging idea at all. Racing production bike next to GP machines would just make the superbikes look .....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bull Goose @ Apr 11 2007, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You're really looking to create quite the monstrosity eh? They do need travel/rest/testing time. This would just all be too much.
The strength of the two championships is that they are separate, with their own characteristics. Combine them and you would lose this.
They travel/rest/testing time?
Set the calender up so they make short weekly hops and work around the globe that way to keep travel times min. Short of injuries were not talking about athletes that get punished week in week out like football or rugby so rest would'nt be as important as keeping momentum I would think.
3 weeks off after just 2 rounds seems very excessive to me and I'm willing to bet the teams just wonna get it on.
SS
The strength of the two championships is that they are separate, with their own characteristics. Combine them and you would lose this.
They travel/rest/testing time?
Set the calender up so they make short weekly hops and work around the globe that way to keep travel times min. Short of injuries were not talking about athletes that get punished week in week out like football or rugby so rest would'nt be as important as keeping momentum I would think.
3 weeks off after just 2 rounds seems very excessive to me and I'm willing to bet the teams just wonna get it on.
SS
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Apr 11 2007, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Could'nt the support series be run the week prior to the "main" event?
Sure they could but they could just as well be on the other side of the world. The TV cameras couldn't care less. As long as the main event is the week after thats when the cameras show up, and even then one of the classes, MotoGP, would be the main event. SBK would become a pure support class for the main event weekend, and most TV companies would only show the MotoGP race.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Apr 11 2007, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They travel/rest/testing time?
Set the calender up so they make short weekly hops and work around the globe that way to keep travel times min. Short of injuries were not talking about athletes that get punished week in week out like football or rugby so rest would'nt be as important as keeping momentum I would think.
And every week a 3 to 5 hour jump in time zone. Guess that would create a few "funny" situations after a couple of weeks.
Sure they could but they could just as well be on the other side of the world. The TV cameras couldn't care less. As long as the main event is the week after thats when the cameras show up, and even then one of the classes, MotoGP, would be the main event. SBK would become a pure support class for the main event weekend, and most TV companies would only show the MotoGP race.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssiperko @ Apr 11 2007, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>They travel/rest/testing time?
Set the calender up so they make short weekly hops and work around the globe that way to keep travel times min. Short of injuries were not talking about athletes that get punished week in week out like football or rugby so rest would'nt be as important as keeping momentum I would think.
And every week a 3 to 5 hour jump in time zone. Guess that would create a few "funny" situations after a couple of weeks.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 11 2007, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't like this merging idea at all. Racing production bike next to GP machines would just make the superbikes look .....
Hate to say this but a WSB bike would only be 1.2sec slow than top runner in Motogp BUT when you get down the lower orders the gap is less.
Toseland would have ended up 5th in the race a Donnington. (motogp 2006 times (summer temp) - WSB 2007 (spring temp)).
Hate to say this but a WSB bike would only be 1.2sec slow than top runner in Motogp BUT when you get down the lower orders the gap is less.
Toseland would have ended up 5th in the race a Donnington. (motogp 2006 times (summer temp) - WSB 2007 (spring temp)).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mbracing @ Apr 14 2007, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hate to say this but a WSB bike would only be 1.2sec slow than top runner in Motogp BUT when you get down the lower orders the gap is less.
Toseland would have ended up 5th in the race a Donnington. (motogp 2006 times (summer temp) - WSB 2007 (spring temp)).
But they still would look and sound .....
Toseland would have ended up 5th in the race a Donnington. (motogp 2006 times (summer temp) - WSB 2007 (spring temp)).
But they still would look and sound .....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mbracing @ Apr 13 2007, 11:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hate to say this but a WSB bike would only be 1.2sec slow than top runner in Motogp BUT when you get down the lower orders the gap is less.
Toseland would have ended up 5th in the race a Donnington. (motogp 2006 times (summer temp) - WSB 2007 (spring temp)).
On a weekend when superbikes and gp is both on hop between the channels and realize how pathetic the superbikes look in comparison, it is very disapointing.
Toseland would have ended up 5th in the race a Donnington. (motogp 2006 times (summer temp) - WSB 2007 (spring temp)).
On a weekend when superbikes and gp is both on hop between the channels and realize how pathetic the superbikes look in comparison, it is very disapointing.
