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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Nov 4 2009, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He mentions Ducati being clever with the electronics on the bike he rode two years ago, I wonder how that compares to the GP9 of today?
but that would be 07, you know the year stoner didnt use electronics
but that would be 07, you know the year stoner didnt use electronics
Take special note of page 4 :
On the subject of why only Stoner is incredibly fast and the dominant race winner on the often wayward Ducati, Gardner said, "Casey is scary fast, scarily good, and if you put him on a bike that really works, with the right people around him he would be even better.
"He's an exceptional talent and he has made Ducati look good. If anyone can beat Valentino it is Casey and that is why I would love top see him on a bike that offers more feel than the Ducati. The Ducati is a good bike but if he was on something better with more feel then you would not see the back of Casey; he would be gone.
"Being fast on the Ducati is an exclusive club, Casey has shown that. I think even Rossi and Lorenzo would
struggle on the Ducati because Casey comes from dirt track racing since he was five years old. Riding difficult bikes in difficult conditions is why he is elevated to another level on the Ducati.
"Two years ago I rode Casey's Ducati in a brief test and it is a very strange bike to ride. Anyone who has ridden it says the same thing -- there is a lack of feel and mechanical grip so it takes a very special talent to ride that bike fast and Casey is an exceptional talent.
"So that's why I would love to see him on a bike with more feel and feedback to the rider. Ducati are very clever with the electronics and that covers a lot of the problems with that bike, I could see that even after four laps on it."
This is similar to what I have been saying for a while. Right now, a healthy Casey is at least Rossis equal and is most likely faster.
I know you reckon Gardner has Aussie bias, but it still all makes sense . To me anyway.
On the subject of why only Stoner is incredibly fast and the dominant race winner on the often wayward Ducati, Gardner said, "Casey is scary fast, scarily good, and if you put him on a bike that really works, with the right people around him he would be even better.
"He's an exceptional talent and he has made Ducati look good. If anyone can beat Valentino it is Casey and that is why I would love top see him on a bike that offers more feel than the Ducati. The Ducati is a good bike but if he was on something better with more feel then you would not see the back of Casey; he would be gone.
"Being fast on the Ducati is an exclusive club, Casey has shown that. I think even Rossi and Lorenzo would
struggle on the Ducati because Casey comes from dirt track racing since he was five years old. Riding difficult bikes in difficult conditions is why he is elevated to another level on the Ducati.
"Two years ago I rode Casey's Ducati in a brief test and it is a very strange bike to ride. Anyone who has ridden it says the same thing -- there is a lack of feel and mechanical grip so it takes a very special talent to ride that bike fast and Casey is an exceptional talent.
"So that's why I would love to see him on a bike with more feel and feedback to the rider. Ducati are very clever with the electronics and that covers a lot of the problems with that bike, I could see that even after four laps on it."
This is similar to what I have been saying for a while. Right now, a healthy Casey is at least Rossis equal and is most likely faster.
I know you reckon Gardner has Aussie bias, but it still all makes sense . To me anyway.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Nov 5 2009, 03:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but that would be 07, you know the year stoner didnt use electronics
I imagine its still the same Rog. You said it correctly though it took 2 years of riders and teams saying it ..... yes the Ducati has "electronics", but Stoner does not use it much. How many times do you need to have other guys saying this
Classic Bopper post
I imagine its still the same Rog. You said it correctly though it took 2 years of riders and teams saying it ..... yes the Ducati has "electronics", but Stoner does not use it much. How many times do you need to have other guys saying this
Classic Bopper post
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 4 2009, 03:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is similar to what I have been saying for a while. Right now, a healthy Casey is at least Rossis equal and is most likely faster.
I know you reckon Gardner has Aussie bias, but it still all makes sense . To me anyway.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Nov 4 2009, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Classic Bopper post
(Nothing Personal, just a silly joke!).
I know you reckon Gardner has Aussie bias, but it still all makes sense . To me anyway.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Nov 4 2009, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Classic Bopper post
(Nothing Personal, just a silly joke!).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 5 2009, 07:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Take special note of page 4 :
On the subject of why only Stoner is incredibly fast and the dominant race winner on the often wayward Ducati, Gardner said, "Casey is scary fast, scarily good, and if you put him on a bike that really works, with the right people around him he would be even better.
"He's an exceptional talent and he has made Ducati look good. If anyone can beat Valentino it is Casey and that is why I would love top see him on a bike that offers more feel than the Ducati. The Ducati is a good bike but if he was on something better with more feel then you would not see the back of Casey; he would be gone.
"Being fast on the Ducati is an exclusive club, Casey has shown that. I think even Rossi and Lorenzo would
struggle on the Ducati because Casey comes from dirt track racing since he was five years old. Riding difficult bikes in difficult conditions is why he is elevated to another level on the Ducati.
"Two years ago I rode Casey's Ducati in a brief test and it is a very strange bike to ride. Anyone who has ridden it says the same thing -- there is a lack of feel and mechanical grip so it takes a very special talent to ride that bike fast and Casey is an exceptional talent.
"So that's why I would love to see him on a bike with more feel and feedback to the rider. Ducati are very clever with the electronics and that covers a lot of the problems with that bike, I could see that even after four laps on it."
This is similar to what I have been saying for a while. Right now, a healthy Casey is at least Rossis equal and is most likely faster.
I know you reckon Gardner has Aussie bias, but it still all makes sense . To me anyway.
c'mon Talps.... where are you.
Surely you have statistics on something to prove Gardner knows nothing, and Stoner really is nowhere.
On the subject of why only Stoner is incredibly fast and the dominant race winner on the often wayward Ducati, Gardner said, "Casey is scary fast, scarily good, and if you put him on a bike that really works, with the right people around him he would be even better.
"He's an exceptional talent and he has made Ducati look good. If anyone can beat Valentino it is Casey and that is why I would love top see him on a bike that offers more feel than the Ducati. The Ducati is a good bike but if he was on something better with more feel then you would not see the back of Casey; he would be gone.
"Being fast on the Ducati is an exclusive club, Casey has shown that. I think even Rossi and Lorenzo would
struggle on the Ducati because Casey comes from dirt track racing since he was five years old. Riding difficult bikes in difficult conditions is why he is elevated to another level on the Ducati.
"Two years ago I rode Casey's Ducati in a brief test and it is a very strange bike to ride. Anyone who has ridden it says the same thing -- there is a lack of feel and mechanical grip so it takes a very special talent to ride that bike fast and Casey is an exceptional talent.
"So that's why I would love to see him on a bike with more feel and feedback to the rider. Ducati are very clever with the electronics and that covers a lot of the problems with that bike, I could see that even after four laps on it."
This is similar to what I have been saying for a while. Right now, a healthy Casey is at least Rossis equal and is most likely faster.
I know you reckon Gardner has Aussie bias, but it still all makes sense . To me anyway.
c'mon Talps.... where are you.
Surely you have statistics on something to prove Gardner knows nothing, and Stoner really is nowhere.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Nov 5 2009, 06:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>c'mon Talps.... where are you.
Surely you have statistics on something to prove Gardner knows nothing, and Stoner really is nowhere.
I wouldnt say nowhere....but as for him saying rossi would struggle on the duc, i disagree. Rossi can ride anything, and develop a bike like no other. He would make the duc rideable just like he did w/ the yamaha
Surely you have statistics on something to prove Gardner knows nothing, and Stoner really is nowhere.
I wouldnt say nowhere....but as for him saying rossi would struggle on the duc, i disagree. Rossi can ride anything, and develop a bike like no other. He would make the duc rideable just like he did w/ the yamaha
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ngads @ Nov 5 2009, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wouldnt say nowhere....but as for him saying rossi would struggle on the duc, i disagree. Rossi can ride anything, and develop a bike like no other. He would make the duc rideable just like he did w/ the yamaha
You disagree, but there is really no proof that this is the case. Because Rossi is such a great rider all you Rossi-boppers have this blind assumption that he can always do whatever any other rider could do. I think it would really shatter your perfect world if it could be shown not to be the case.
Just as I think Gardner is as big an idiot as Schwantz in trying to determine the basis of Caseys health issues( because he is no medical expert) , he is however an expert on racing motorcycles, and I thought his comment on the Ducatis problems was one of the rare clear insights. Rossi does not have Caseys dirtbike background and nothing can change that. He would not get as good a handle of the Ducati as you obviously believe or hope. If Rossi were to go to Ducati, I believe his reputation or aura would be severely diminished. It could be a career -killer for even him unless the bike could be completely transformed and I doubt that that could be done in quick enough time.
"Rossi can ride anything" Where does this come from? He won on the Honda, he wins on the Yamaha. I don,t think two very similar japanese racing motorcycles quite constitute "everything" but in Rossi-bopper land who knows?
The only real proof would be to put them both on flat track and motorcross bikes and see. That would be surprisingly easy to arrange. But Rossi is smart enough to never do it, even though many of his fans are not.
You disagree, but there is really no proof that this is the case. Because Rossi is such a great rider all you Rossi-boppers have this blind assumption that he can always do whatever any other rider could do. I think it would really shatter your perfect world if it could be shown not to be the case.
Just as I think Gardner is as big an idiot as Schwantz in trying to determine the basis of Caseys health issues( because he is no medical expert) , he is however an expert on racing motorcycles, and I thought his comment on the Ducatis problems was one of the rare clear insights. Rossi does not have Caseys dirtbike background and nothing can change that. He would not get as good a handle of the Ducati as you obviously believe or hope. If Rossi were to go to Ducati, I believe his reputation or aura would be severely diminished. It could be a career -killer for even him unless the bike could be completely transformed and I doubt that that could be done in quick enough time.
"Rossi can ride anything" Where does this come from? He won on the Honda, he wins on the Yamaha. I don,t think two very similar japanese racing motorcycles quite constitute "everything" but in Rossi-bopper land who knows?
The only real proof would be to put them both on flat track and motorcross bikes and see. That would be surprisingly easy to arrange. But Rossi is smart enough to never do it, even though many of his fans are not.
Austin
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As much as I respect all these former champions and riders, they have little insight into what makes a successful rider today. Gardner talked about how Stoner's dirt background has helped him ride the Ducati and that Rossi, without a dirt background, would likely struggle. Interesting theory. However, Stoner has a teammate as adept as he in the dirt, if not more so, and still finds himself a second behind Stoner. Additionally, Rossi is very quick on dirt bikes and motards. And when you are speaking of talent in the volume that Rossi possesses, experience on dirt means very little when adapting that knowledge to a grand prix motorcycle.
To say that Stoner's dirt background is what is making the difference is clearly not the case. And to say that he'd likely go faster on a Honda or Yamaha is nothing but guesswork and, based on his logic, is nothing earth shattering. Anyone on this board could surmise this. And to say that Rossi would struggle on the Ducati because of the history of riders struggling at Ducati ignores the fact that Rossi is far superior than Capirossi, Melandri and Hayden.
Sour grapes to me. I just wish that ex-racers would keep their mouths shut with regards to criticisms of modern riders. The vast majority aren't in the garages week in, week out so aren't privy to any information that the press doesn't already know. Most of which are just egomaniacs whom like to hear themselves talk. It's a shame, you look at successful guys like Schwantz and Gardner whom are well-liked, consistently shoot themselves in the foot by talking critically about today's riders.
To say that Stoner's dirt background is what is making the difference is clearly not the case. And to say that he'd likely go faster on a Honda or Yamaha is nothing but guesswork and, based on his logic, is nothing earth shattering. Anyone on this board could surmise this. And to say that Rossi would struggle on the Ducati because of the history of riders struggling at Ducati ignores the fact that Rossi is far superior than Capirossi, Melandri and Hayden.
Sour grapes to me. I just wish that ex-racers would keep their mouths shut with regards to criticisms of modern riders. The vast majority aren't in the garages week in, week out so aren't privy to any information that the press doesn't already know. Most of which are just egomaniacs whom like to hear themselves talk. It's a shame, you look at successful guys like Schwantz and Gardner whom are well-liked, consistently shoot themselves in the foot by talking critically about today's riders.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 6 2009, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As much as I respect all these former champions and riders, they have little insight into what makes a successful rider today. Gardner talked about how Stoner's dirt background has helped him ride the Ducati and that Rossi, without a dirt background, would likely struggle. Interesting theory. However, Stoner has a teammate as adept as he in the dirt, if not more so, and still finds himself a second behind Stoner. Additionally, Rossi is very quick on dirt bikes and motards. And when you are speaking of talent in the volume that Rossi possesses, experience on dirt means very little when adapting that knowledge to a grand prix motorcycle.
To say that Stoner's dirt background is what is making the difference is clearly not the case. And to say that he'd likely go faster on a Honda or Yamaha is nothing but guesswork and, based on his logic, is nothing earth shattering. Anyone on this board could surmise this. And to say that Rossi would struggle on the Ducati because of the history of riders struggling at Ducati ignores the fact that Rossi is far superior than Capirossi, Melandri and Hayden.
Sour grapes to me. I just wish that ex-racers would keep their mouths shut with regards to criticisms of modern riders. The vast majority aren't in the garages week in, week out so aren't privy to any information that the press doesn't already know. Most of which are just egomaniacs whom like to hear themselves talk. It's a shame, you look at successful guys like Schwantz and Gardner whom are well-liked, consistently shoot themselves in the foot by talking critically about today's riders.
Great post Austin. Agree with all of it.
To say that Stoner's dirt background is what is making the difference is clearly not the case. And to say that he'd likely go faster on a Honda or Yamaha is nothing but guesswork and, based on his logic, is nothing earth shattering. Anyone on this board could surmise this. And to say that Rossi would struggle on the Ducati because of the history of riders struggling at Ducati ignores the fact that Rossi is far superior than Capirossi, Melandri and Hayden.
Sour grapes to me. I just wish that ex-racers would keep their mouths shut with regards to criticisms of modern riders. The vast majority aren't in the garages week in, week out so aren't privy to any information that the press doesn't already know. Most of which are just egomaniacs whom like to hear themselves talk. It's a shame, you look at successful guys like Schwantz and Gardner whom are well-liked, consistently shoot themselves in the foot by talking critically about today's riders.
Great post Austin. Agree with all of it.
Austin. Some good comments. Wish you hadn,t bought up Hayden quite so fast.
Stoner is good on difficult bikes like the Ducati because he is good in the dirt and because he is an excellent rider. A combination of both? Although Nicky was good in the dirt, that alone is not enough. ( Do you think I got away with that one?)
I,m sure Rosssi is good on the dirt as well, but I,m sure he would be no match for Stoner.
Gardner does tend to comment too much sometimes (like Schwantz), but I think any insight into the difficulty in riding the Ducati is surely of help. The "lack of feel" confirms other riders opinions. Ducati needs to improve in this area. Although Rossi is far superior to Melandri, Hayden and Capirossi, it does not mean he would master the ducati, just that he would probably do better than the others. Will we ever find out? If not , this is all surmising and thats what forums are all about.
(Don,t mention the war . I did, but I think I got away with it) apologies to Basil F
Stoner is good on difficult bikes like the Ducati because he is good in the dirt and because he is an excellent rider. A combination of both? Although Nicky was good in the dirt, that alone is not enough. ( Do you think I got away with that one?)
I,m sure Rosssi is good on the dirt as well, but I,m sure he would be no match for Stoner.
Gardner does tend to comment too much sometimes (like Schwantz), but I think any insight into the difficulty in riding the Ducati is surely of help. The "lack of feel" confirms other riders opinions. Ducati needs to improve in this area. Although Rossi is far superior to Melandri, Hayden and Capirossi, it does not mean he would master the ducati, just that he would probably do better than the others. Will we ever find out? If not , this is all surmising and thats what forums are all about.
(Don,t mention the war . I did, but I think I got away with it) apologies to Basil F
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 5 2009, 05:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Austin. Some good comments. Wish you hadn,t bought up Hayden quite so fast.
Stoner is good on difficult bikes like the Ducati because he is good in the dirt and because he is an excellent rider. A combination of both? Although Nicky was good in the dirt, that alone is not enough. ( Do you think I got away with that one?)
I,m sure Rosssi is good on the dirt as well, but I,m sure he would be no match for Stoner.
Gardner does tend to comment too much sometimes (like Schwantz), but I think any insight into the difficulty in riding the Ducati is surely of help. The "lack of feel" confirms other riders opinions. Ducati needs to improve in this area. Although Rossi is far superior to Melandri, Hayden and Capirossi, it does not mean he would master the ducati, just that he would probably do better than the others. Will we ever find out? If not , this is all surmising and thats what forums are all about.
(Don,t mention the war . I did, but I think I got away with it) apologies to Basil F
hello ladies,
1) austin is right
2) wtf is all this about dirt riding - we're talking about motogp
3) btw - a certain v. rossi has won that series how many times (about 7) more than stoner? - or anybody else in the last decade
4) stoner & rossi both rode the honda world beater - only difference - stoner kept falling off & rossi was world champion
5) rossi has won championships on 3 different makes and would win on a ducati too if he went that way
Stoner is good on difficult bikes like the Ducati because he is good in the dirt and because he is an excellent rider. A combination of both? Although Nicky was good in the dirt, that alone is not enough. ( Do you think I got away with that one?)
I,m sure Rosssi is good on the dirt as well, but I,m sure he would be no match for Stoner.
Gardner does tend to comment too much sometimes (like Schwantz), but I think any insight into the difficulty in riding the Ducati is surely of help. The "lack of feel" confirms other riders opinions. Ducati needs to improve in this area. Although Rossi is far superior to Melandri, Hayden and Capirossi, it does not mean he would master the ducati, just that he would probably do better than the others. Will we ever find out? If not , this is all surmising and thats what forums are all about.
(Don,t mention the war . I did, but I think I got away with it) apologies to Basil F
hello ladies,
1) austin is right
2) wtf is all this about dirt riding - we're talking about motogp
3) btw - a certain v. rossi has won that series how many times (about 7) more than stoner? - or anybody else in the last decade
4) stoner & rossi both rode the honda world beater - only difference - stoner kept falling off & rossi was world champion
5) rossi has won championships on 3 different makes and would win on a ducati too if he went that way
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ptk50 @ Nov 5 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hello ladies,
1) austin is right
2) wtf is all this about dirt riding - we're talking about motogp
3) btw - a certain v. rossi has won that series how many times (about 7) more than stoner? - or anybody else in the last decade
4) stoner & rossi both rode the honda world beater - only difference - stoner kept falling off & rossi was world champion
5) rossi has won championships on 3 different makes and would win on a ducati too if he went that way
another one added to the population of Bopperville
1) austin is right
2) wtf is all this about dirt riding - we're talking about motogp
3) btw - a certain v. rossi has won that series how many times (about 7) more than stoner? - or anybody else in the last decade
4) stoner & rossi both rode the honda world beater - only difference - stoner kept falling off & rossi was world champion
5) rossi has won championships on 3 different makes and would win on a ducati too if he went that way
another one added to the population of Bopperville
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ptk50 @ Nov 5 2009, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>hello ladies,
1) austin is right
2) wtf is all this about dirt riding - we're talking about motogp
3) btw - a certain v. rossi has won that series how many times (about 7) more than stoner? - or anybody else in the last decade
4) stoner & rossi both rode the honda world beater - only difference - stoner kept falling off & rossi was world champion
5) rossi has won championships on 3 different makes and would win on a ducati too if he went that way
Points 3-5 are all bopper comments
Both rode hondas , and the only difference was the results? Oh dear. Chapters have been written about this- factory team vs privateer, tier 1 Michelins vs tier 3 Michelins etc etc
Jumkie where are you? Please post a link to appropriate rebuttal.
1) austin is right
2) wtf is all this about dirt riding - we're talking about motogp
3) btw - a certain v. rossi has won that series how many times (about 7) more than stoner? - or anybody else in the last decade
4) stoner & rossi both rode the honda world beater - only difference - stoner kept falling off & rossi was world champion
5) rossi has won championships on 3 different makes and would win on a ducati too if he went that way
Points 3-5 are all bopper comments
Both rode hondas , and the only difference was the results? Oh dear. Chapters have been written about this- factory team vs privateer, tier 1 Michelins vs tier 3 Michelins etc etc
Jumkie where are you? Please post a link to appropriate rebuttal.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 6 2009, 04:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>(Don,t mention the war . I did, but I think I got away with it) apologies to Basil F
I'm sorry everyone but...
You'll have to forgive him. He's from Barcelona!!!
I'm sorry everyone but...
You'll have to forgive him. He's from Barcelona!!!
- Joined
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- Norah Head
Gardiner is a racer ...... he can't help it even now.
Before Stoner surpassed him he was seen as somewhat critical of Stoner , Competitive?, or is his style to instill some figth into his hopefuls? who knows?
Stoner has overtaken him now and suddenly we see utterances from Gardiner that are more gracious toward Stoner.
But meh ........ none of it matters two hoots.
Before Stoner surpassed him he was seen as somewhat critical of Stoner , Competitive?, or is his style to instill some figth into his hopefuls? who knows?
Stoner has overtaken him now and suddenly we see utterances from Gardiner that are more gracious toward Stoner.
But meh ........ none of it matters two hoots.
Austin
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bunyip @ Nov 5 2009, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Austin. Some good comments. Wish you hadn,t bought up Hayden quite so fast.
Stoner is good on difficult bikes like the Ducati because he is good in the dirt and because he is an excellent rider. A combination of both? Although Nicky was good in the dirt, that alone is not enough. ( Do you think I got away with that one?)
I'm the first to admit that Hayden does not get on with 800s. That being said, he is a world champion. He's certainly no slouch. And he's excellent in the dirt.
Stoner is good on difficult bikes like the Ducati because he is good in the dirt and because he is an excellent rider. A combination of both? Although Nicky was good in the dirt, that alone is not enough. ( Do you think I got away with that one?)
I'm the first to admit that Hayden does not get on with 800s. That being said, he is a world champion. He's certainly no slouch. And he's excellent in the dirt.
