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Gardner "not overly surprised" by Rossi Ducati performance.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm , bit of a mixed bag really. I would like to say the first half is Gardners usual misinformed opinion, but the second half is lucid and correct, but then I would be accused of inconsistency.
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Overall though, I don,t think Gardner has a history of getting it completely right, so I may have to treat both scenarios with a grain of salt.
 
I find myself in agreemant with wayne about both rossi and stoner. I will have to re-examine my opinions
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Mmmmmmmmmmmmm , bit of a mixed bag really. I would like to say the first half is Gardners usual misinformed opinion, but the second half is lucid and correct, but then I would be accused of inconsistency.
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Overall though, I don,t think Gardner has a history of getting it completely right, so I may have to treat both scenarios with a grain of salt.





So above WG is right when it comes to positives on Stoner, yet misinformed when it comes to positives on Rossi?
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However I do agree with your last statement completely, and writing off Pedders at this stage is more than a little silly.
 
I don't think that is what bunyip said.



Mmmmmmmmmmmmm , bit of a mixed bag really. I would like to say the first half is Gardners usual misinformed opinion, but the second half is lucid and correct, but then I would be accused of inconsistency.
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The first half of the article was about Rossi, the second half was about Stoner.........how would define this then?



I actually don't really care, but having some fun before I get my marching orders from Jum
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but Agostini didn’t completely

believe this, “I don’t think so. If he

did a lot of laps, I could believe it,

but today......



Fullstory:

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/5...s-test-i-didnt-expect-him-to-be-so-far-behind



He's being pretty honest there.
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There was a lot of expectation from the boppers, and it went totally against the boppers expectations. Even showing Stoner is a god.
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....... exactly what they have been whinging about since Stoner came in.



And its a done assessment even if JB manages to get the Duc. going, the question of who is better on the same equip. is answered.



It also says a lot about where Rossi would be without JB, as at this stage the Ducati was not JB affected.
 
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm , bit of a mixed bag really. I would like to say the first half is Gardners usual misinformed opinion, but the second half is lucid and correct, but then I would be accused of inconsistency.
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The first half of the article was about Rossi, the second half was about Stoner.........how would define this then?



I actually don't really care, but having some fun before I get my marching orders from Jum
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Perhaps my comprehension is slipping, but my reading of bunyip's post was that despite what he might like to believe given his opinion of wayne's credibility he would not take either statement seriously.



I personally would be happy for gardner to be correct in both statements, provide the riders finish first and second in the 2011 championship in the right order.
 
He's being pretty honest there.
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There was a lot of expectation from the boppers, and it went totally against the boppers expectations. Even showing Stoner is a god.
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....... exactly what they have been whinging about since Stoner came in.



And its a done assessment even if JB manages to get the Duc. going, the question of who is better on the same equip. is answered.



It also says a lot about where Rossi would be without JB, as at this stage the Ducati was not JB affected.

You can't necessarily expect ago to be unbiased on this topic either since he may still see rossi as his rival in terms of their respective standings in motogpdom.



I am surprised that as a scientist you consider the evidence to be definitive from only one arm of an experiment even regardless of the small sample size and possible external factors such as injury; how do you know how fast stoner would be on an unchanged 2010 yamaha set up for rossi?
 
Perhaps my comprehension is slipping, but my reading of bunyip's post was that despite what he might like to believe given his opinion of wayne's credibility he would not take either statement seriously.



I personally would be happy for gardner to be correct in both statements, provide the riders finish first and second in the 2011 championship in the right order.



Correct, Michael

Most people would understand this, but then Talpa is either a little slow or is confirming that he twists the facts to suit his agenda. Which is it Talpa? Either way you look bad
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I am surprised that as a scientist you consider the evidence to be definitive from only one arm of an experiment even regardless of the small sample size and possible external factors such as injury; how do you know how fast stoner would be on an unchanged 2010 yamaha set up for rossi?



The problem here is that you are seeing what I see as a possible outcome based on the current data, as a law.

Speculation is a big part of science. The collected data from arranged events ( eg. tests ), aimed at answering the questions of that speculation, does help understand eventual understanding of what is later treated as a law.



These test have debunked several myths and added to several speculations. This site, being a forum, is more like the lunchroom in a lab.. not a textbook.
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I think when I speculate that I have used phrases as "I can't see it ... ", or " ... shows that that".



I think I have made it quite clear in a past post that "it would be nice to see Stoner on Rossi's Yam" indicating there is still unknowns there, however since that is not possible we do have data on Rossi on Stoners bike ........ so that part of the equation has been answered.

Now, the interesting bit: ............ given that the bigger part of the assertions, in the Stoner v's Rossi equation, were from Rossifans claiming that "anybody could ride the Duc", "Rossi would clean up on the Duc.", "the Duc. rides itself", " the duc is the fastest" .......... adnauseum ...... all aimed at discreditting Stoner and the reason he has been able to match, or beat, Rossi in wins, then these assertions merely needed to be discredited to answer the biggest speculation .......... the Valencia tests, have answered that.



In the end:



Its still a Rossi v's Stoner "Grandialato" (
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) that seems to be raging. ..... and given all the past speculations around the lunchroom table here:



Rossi on the Duc. at valencia ........... do you really think this went anything other than very much in Stoners favour?



Stoner on the Honda ................ it would be very hard to find anything but the ultimate positive in that toward Stoner.



I strongly suspect that we will never see a true test ( say 3 races each on each others bikes ) of the supremacy of either Stoner or Rossi, but in terms of the tests and indicators we can get access to, well thats why there is bucketloads of "lab. lunchroom discussion" going on very actively here.
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The biggest problem though is when one of the tests/indicators goes Stoners way. The data is hard to digest, though some it would seem have swung toward at least a different view on Stoner. Then you have folks like Talpa, Reg., and co. ..... no matter how much data shows their speculations to be wild and fanatical, they still stick with their first ever assertion ...... whether they can't take in the data and its implications is dificult to say, but it is mindnumbingly "
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....... ing" when after 4 years of data, indicating the oposite, Talpa comes out with "Stoner uses the most electronics" again
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Yes its not "the lab," here, its "the lunchroom", but some of the questions help us decipher what weare seeing in "the lab.:
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PS. Oh and its certainly no "Church" in here ....... so really you need to also take everyones post/s as having the caveat "don't take this as Gospel ... but ..... "





In short I think I'm saying ......... lighten up Michael, its an internet forum not the number 42 ( the answer to the Univer ..... ) , but it does have its uses
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You can't necessarily expect ago to be unbiased on this topic either since he may still see rossi as his rival in terms of their respective standings in motogpdom.



I am surprised that as a scientist you consider the evidence to be definitive from only one arm of an experiment even regardless of the small sample size and possible external factors such as injury; how do you know how fast stoner would be on an unchanged 2010 yamaha set up for rossi?



He Doesn't know, as we all are very well aware of.



At this point it is convenient for Baz and his extremely biased POV to make final assessments on the debate after a single test, with one rider still seriously injured who placed in a very similar position on the bike he's been on for 6 years at this circuit in the free practice session just days earlier, the more intelligent among us prefer to wait and in 2011 time will tell the story.



The assumption being made here, and the premature conclusion is just that. The result of this will be determined in November 2011 if Rossi finishes higher than 4th in the championship.
 
PS. Oh and its certainly no "Church" in here ....... so really you need to also take everyones post/s as having the caveat "don't take this as Gospel ... but ..... "





In short I think I'm saying ......... lighten up Michael, its an internet forum not the number 42 ( the answer to the Univer ..... ) , but it does have its uses
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I was mainly joking barry; I don't really approve of the emoticons and don't always use them.



It is certainly true that the test was nothing but positive for stoner, particularly vis a vis dani pedrosa who won 4 races this year on the bike. However he has been fast in testing for the last 3 seasons without it presaging championship wins. Stoner is also justly famous for being immediately fast, which again has not necessarily translated into championships.



I don't think anyone is saying the test was positive for rossi, just that it does not mean he won't be competitive for the 2011 championship. The other aspect of the 2010 ducati is that it took stoner himself more than half a season to be fast on it without falling off, and even then he did not solve the falling off part consistently. I also put weight on the evidence of rossi's career thus far, which is that he has had extreme usually eventually championship winning pace on every bike he has ridden.



I was just as annoyed as you by all the bike that rides itself stuff but there have been 3 seasons since then in all of which rossi has beaten stoner, so out of fairmindedness intellectual conceit or whatever I can't justify saying equally stupid things about rossi.



I think where I do partially agree with you is that the testing did provide further evidence of the at least idiosyncratic and difficult nature of the current ducati; jb actually commented about the effort required to steer the thing, and rossi was immediately fast on the yamaha superbike and able to improve it rapidly despite having the shoulder injury then and it being only a few weeks after his leg fracture.



As I have already said as someone who wants stoner to win the 2011 championship I am not going to tempt fate by calling it prematurely.
 

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