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I agree Johnny, bike racing is a niche sport that very few people can enjoy in person. Watching road racing at the track takes a different individual than the regular sports fan. I think i have said this before, but we have taken numerous other riders with us to bike races, and the huge majority are one and done. The same core group remains, but rarely do we pick up regulars that are in for the next trip. They enjoy everything about the trip except the long days hanging on a fence, waiting a minute and a half for 5- 10 seconds of actual viewing. We have actually had guys leave on Saturday and ride home alone they were so bored. You either really love it, or find it really boring. Im with you, i dont think it will ever be accepted worldwide as a mainstream sport.. Sometimes on Sundays, the GP race will be at 8am here in the states, we get up at 6 get a few passes at the gap, then setlle in the restraunt for breakfast and watch the race. There will be 100 bikers mulling around, and maybe 10 will actually watch the race. The other 90 are more interested in buying dragon decals and t shirts.
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A lot of good points.
Not all fans are fans because they have memories and experiences of motorbikes just as all fans of rugby league aren't fans because they have memories and experiences of playing it. Rossi bought fans to the sport who have never thrown a leg over a bike.
I strongly agree with your last sentence and I think many others do to and if I can summaries it to suggest that Dorna are trying to lock down the media output of MotoGP so they can charge for it. A classic example is the youtube deletions. If you want to send a clip to a mate and entice him to watch then good luck with that unless you are prepared to give him your password to MotoGP.com that is. This is SO small minded in my opinion. They are trying to make as much as possible from a small pool rather than trying to expand the pool in which a smaller cut would far exceed what they can milk out of the pond they currently govern.
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I have said numerous times they need to expand their schedule . Go to 20 races, and never go longer than 2 weeks in between. Fans like us will wait, most will move on while the series has its 3-4 week siestas.Out of sight, out of mind.
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Cigs, beer, and fast food
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It seams the CRT rules are perfect for all of motogp, no need for anything else. 24L, 12 engines, 81mm bore, no leasing its all yours, dont care where you get the parts just make the damn thing as fast as it will go, and most importantly everyone gets an invitation to come and play. What more is there?
Answer: Curve forgot women.
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Yeah but if they don't taste like ham .......... he's not interested!
Because .........
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Good responses. I agree with a lot of what u guys are saying.
JohnK, great post, i think the niche aspect is something difficult to overcome. Living in SoCal, its frustrating to know so many people who ride but have zero interest in motoracing. Like Pov mentioned, i've taken heaps of people to the AMA round that we use to have locally at AutoClub speedway (California Speedway), and in the end, it would end up just 3-4 of my same buddies returning. ...., even worse, when i used to work for the trackday organization, i was always amazed at how many trackday regulars didnt know squat about racing. Now the AMA round has been cancelled. Im taking about SoCal bro, where we have perfect riding weather 24/7/365. Where bike nights happen in every other city on various nights of the week. Its frustrating how these dumb .......s all ride sport bikes but none of them know racing exists. Why do u think i spend so much time texting my buddies who i have met here on PS? Cuz u guys get it. Now how can i get others as enthusiastic or mildly enthusiastic about racing?
1. Broaden the market for the product. Im ok with Spain & Italy getting multiple rounds. Their people are uber enthusiastic about the sport, they pay the fees, and show up. Their enthusiasm doesnt hurt but helps. But also try and open it back up in Brazil, Turkey, SE Asia, India, S. Africa, maybe even Canada. Sanction fees should have a slide scale in these new areas, that is, start low in first year to hook, then agree to deals for multiple year contracts.
2. Well, for sure, let the masses see free content. Stop this rediculious ban on youtube. The diehards will buy the motogp.com pass because its comprehensive. Having races on SpeedTV and access to torrents hasnt stopped me from buying the pass. I suspect only diehards buy the pass anyway.
3. Better the racing aspect of the show while maintaining the authenticity of competition. I'd have a team study why the last year of the 990s worked so well, and would try to replicate this with the new formula. If that means having a tire war, lifing fuel limits, banning some forms of electronic aids, revenue sharing, etc. then implement.
4. For gods sake, shorten the gaps between races. 3-4 weeks off is simply too long. SX has races once a week, so given all the extra .... GP has two move, two weeks should be plenty of time. Even the dumb ..... in AMA learned that if you plan the schedule by region, travel costs wont drain the system. (Though at least this year GP figured out how to stay in the US for both rounds without flying to E. Europe in-between, as they did before).
5. Figure out how to produce some human interest content. In the States we have a bunch of shows dedicated to getting to know the players, drivers, athletes, etc. of various sports. Recently i saw a show called 'Inside the Outdoors' which documents in docudrama/reality show format some of the riders in MX. Its fantastic. I get to see the human side of the riders and their teams, sponsors, drama, and ..... Can we put together something like that for GP? Seriously, after watching this, it made me appreciate all the personnel and effort that goes into competing. It endeared me more to the riders who are shown as regular guys putting it all on the line. I think if we had something like this, we honestly wouldnt bicker about rider x for being a clown or an ....... or whatever. Plus it might get people more interested in seeing what happens to them as they go about competing the season. How much do we know about the riders not competing for the title? Are any of us moved by their struggles, frustrations, sense of accomplishments? Im talking human drama. Ive been told by some people that if they dont have a horse in the show they dont care about the racing, its uninteresting. Thats true for example in Wsbk when there is no countryman to root for. But what happens when we learn about the human side of a rider? Some people will identify with them. For example, there is a rider in SX/MX who happens to be from Scotland that was showcased in the show ( Wilson). His team principal, a guy named Mitch, talks about how courageous it was for the family to move here to the US. Then, when the kid gets picked up by a team, his dad, who had been everything, mechanic, trainer, cheerleader, steps aside and even bans himself from attending the races because he knows that his presence may impede his kid from flying on his own. Learning this i found myself rooting for the kid. I became a fan. I now watch the Lites (lower) class with great interest. Its a long winded way of proposing, if we hand more content on the human drama of MotoGP players, i think it would generate more of a following.
6. The other good ideas proposed on the thread.
JohnK, great post, i think the niche aspect is something difficult to overcome. Living in SoCal, its frustrating to know so many people who ride but have zero interest in motoracing. Like Pov mentioned, i've taken heaps of people to the AMA round that we use to have locally at AutoClub speedway (California Speedway), and in the end, it would end up just 3-4 of my same buddies returning. ...., even worse, when i used to work for the trackday organization, i was always amazed at how many trackday regulars didnt know squat about racing. Now the AMA round has been cancelled. Im taking about SoCal bro, where we have perfect riding weather 24/7/365. Where bike nights happen in every other city on various nights of the week. Its frustrating how these dumb .......s all ride sport bikes but none of them know racing exists. Why do u think i spend so much time texting my buddies who i have met here on PS? Cuz u guys get it. Now how can i get others as enthusiastic or mildly enthusiastic about racing?
1. Broaden the market for the product. Im ok with Spain & Italy getting multiple rounds. Their people are uber enthusiastic about the sport, they pay the fees, and show up. Their enthusiasm doesnt hurt but helps. But also try and open it back up in Brazil, Turkey, SE Asia, India, S. Africa, maybe even Canada. Sanction fees should have a slide scale in these new areas, that is, start low in first year to hook, then agree to deals for multiple year contracts.
2. Well, for sure, let the masses see free content. Stop this rediculious ban on youtube. The diehards will buy the motogp.com pass because its comprehensive. Having races on SpeedTV and access to torrents hasnt stopped me from buying the pass. I suspect only diehards buy the pass anyway.
3. Better the racing aspect of the show while maintaining the authenticity of competition. I'd have a team study why the last year of the 990s worked so well, and would try to replicate this with the new formula. If that means having a tire war, lifing fuel limits, banning some forms of electronic aids, revenue sharing, etc. then implement.
4. For gods sake, shorten the gaps between races. 3-4 weeks off is simply too long. SX has races once a week, so given all the extra .... GP has two move, two weeks should be plenty of time. Even the dumb ..... in AMA learned that if you plan the schedule by region, travel costs wont drain the system. (Though at least this year GP figured out how to stay in the US for both rounds without flying to E. Europe in-between, as they did before).
5. Figure out how to produce some human interest content. In the States we have a bunch of shows dedicated to getting to know the players, drivers, athletes, etc. of various sports. Recently i saw a show called 'Inside the Outdoors' which documents in docudrama/reality show format some of the riders in MX. Its fantastic. I get to see the human side of the riders and their teams, sponsors, drama, and ..... Can we put together something like that for GP? Seriously, after watching this, it made me appreciate all the personnel and effort that goes into competing. It endeared me more to the riders who are shown as regular guys putting it all on the line. I think if we had something like this, we honestly wouldnt bicker about rider x for being a clown or an ....... or whatever. Plus it might get people more interested in seeing what happens to them as they go about competing the season. How much do we know about the riders not competing for the title? Are any of us moved by their struggles, frustrations, sense of accomplishments? Im talking human drama. Ive been told by some people that if they dont have a horse in the show they dont care about the racing, its uninteresting. Thats true for example in Wsbk when there is no countryman to root for. But what happens when we learn about the human side of a rider? Some people will identify with them. For example, there is a rider in SX/MX who happens to be from Scotland that was showcased in the show ( Wilson). His team principal, a guy named Mitch, talks about how courageous it was for the family to move here to the US. Then, when the kid gets picked up by a team, his dad, who had been everything, mechanic, trainer, cheerleader, steps aside and even bans himself from attending the races because he knows that his presence may impede his kid from flying on his own. Learning this i found myself rooting for the kid. I became a fan. I now watch the Lites (lower) class with great interest. Its a long winded way of proposing, if we hand more content on the human drama of MotoGP players, i think it would generate more of a following.
6. The other good ideas proposed on the thread.
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Very well said mate.
2006 worked so well for me because of the Human Drama and tech was not an issue, Rossi's bike/tyre woes, Melandri/Caparossi's unfortunate accident, many different Race winners, Rossi, Hayden, Caparossi, Bayliss, Elias, Melandri, Pedrosa-nearly Colin!..... Satellites in with a shot and performing very well. Brilliant Races..... Germany-Mugello-Sepang-Estoril! to name a few, and most of all a very close title fight with the underdog winning out-great to witness.
I remember that season as being the one in which the most barbecues were organized around races and everyone was truly into it......not so since, not even close.
Its amazing to think of that year, and the potential for a great spectacle with the unpredictability in the air before each race. Then think of what it has become so few years later.
Yeah quality post Jum.
MotoGP needs to identify that it is and will always be a niche market, and will never be mainstream to the extent of F1, BUT in saying that, many of the people that go to F1 are not F1 fans. They are there for the atmosphere, the specticle, the excitement, the beautiful women, the parties, etc.
MotoGP needs to go to places that generate this atmosphere, and (unfortunately) Spain and Italy do, but there are other places that will too. Improve the off track entertainment. Include concerts, bike shows, stunt riders, whatever.
Singapore is building an F1 track, and also has one of the fastest growing sport bike markets in the world (per capita). Singapore has a high per capita income, and loves to party. Go there.
Go to Brazil, where they will get the same atmosphere as Spain. They also love to party, but the race has to be close to the poeple, not in the middle of nowhere.
Maybe Mexico for the same reasons.
Thailand.
MotoGP needs to improve investment in, and that comes from the benefit out for sponsors. They need to improve the party atmosphere, so people who are not race fans go, and more people see the sponsors.
Where I live, we used to have an Indy GP (until the fun police killed it). It was the biggest party you have ever seen, and used to get 300,000 + people over 4 days. Most people knew absolutely zero about Indy cars, and had no interest. Most of the sponsors were US based, and had little relevance in Australia.
The whole 4 days was full of parties, promo girls, jets flying over, strippers in appartments flashing the crowds below, and a bit of racing. Parties inside the track, ferris wheels, bikini parades.
MotoGP needs a bit of this, without loosing the hard core 'niche' fans.
I agree with all your points Jum.
MotoGP needs to identify that it is and will always be a niche market, and will never be mainstream to the extent of F1, BUT in saying that, many of the people that go to F1 are not F1 fans. They are there for the atmosphere, the specticle, the excitement, the beautiful women, the parties, etc.
MotoGP needs to go to places that generate this atmosphere, and (unfortunately) Spain and Italy do, but there are other places that will too. Improve the off track entertainment. Include concerts, bike shows, stunt riders, whatever.
Singapore is building an F1 track, and also has one of the fastest growing sport bike markets in the world (per capita). Singapore has a high per capita income, and loves to party. Go there.
Go to Brazil, where they will get the same atmosphere as Spain. They also love to party, but the race has to be close to the poeple, not in the middle of nowhere.
Maybe Mexico for the same reasons.
Thailand.
MotoGP needs to improve investment in, and that comes from the benefit out for sponsors. They need to improve the party atmosphere, so people who are not race fans go, and more people see the sponsors.
Where I live, we used to have an Indy GP (until the fun police killed it). It was the biggest party you have ever seen, and used to get 300,000 + people over 4 days. Most people knew absolutely zero about Indy cars, and had no interest. Most of the sponsors were US based, and had little relevance in Australia.
The whole 4 days was full of parties, promo girls, jets flying over, strippers in appartments flashing the crowds below, and a bit of racing. Parties inside the track, ferris wheels, bikini parades.
MotoGP needs a bit of this, without loosing the hard core 'niche' fans.
I agree with all your points Jum.
Final year on fully-developed bikes, development focus switching to the 800s, crappy tires, primitive slipper clutches and a relatively shallow talent pool. On the 990s, you could afford to ride sloppy and make a mistake, you had oodles of power to straighten things out on corner exit. On the 800s, if you lost a tenth somewhere you never, ever got it back. Add that to outstanding corner entry electronics and astonishingly grippy tires and you breed a generation of riders who are absolutely perfect every lap. When you also have three young riders who have used the best rider of the 990 era as a benchmark, and are pushing each other to greater heights of riding perfection - dragging that 990's era legend with them - and you get boring racing.
If you want great racing, you have to replicate what WSBK has: second-rate riders, crappy tires, less complicated electronics.
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were the 2006 tyres that much worse than the 07 rubber?
a liter more fuel, primitive or no slipper clutches and we get better racing.
not sure i agree about the shallow talent pool, the 06 season had some great riders out there, if casey had been on a better bike and lorenzo already in motogp it would have been perfect
pedrosa,hayden,melandri,gibernau are all great riders in my book
a liter more fuel, primitive or no slipper clutches and we get better racing.
not sure i agree about the shallow talent pool, the 06 season had some great riders out there, if casey had been on a better bike and lorenzo already in motogp it would have been perfect
pedrosa,hayden,melandri,gibernau are all great riders in my book
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Make full TV coverage of GPs cheap and easily accessible in India, Indonesia, Brazil, China. And, gradually, have more GPs held there.
These countries are the biggest markets for 2-wheelers, with millions and millions of motorbikes sold every year. They have some of the biggest manufacturers too. It is still a utilitarian bike market - but that doesn't mean users will not be interested in races. On the contrary -- the big passion for motorcycle racing in Italy, for instance, developed exactly when the market was all about basic family transport bikes and scooters, in the '50s, '60s and '70s. Only a few people could afford sports bikes, but the rest happily dreamed about them and avidly followed the races and the riders.
These countries are the biggest markets for 2-wheelers, with millions and millions of motorbikes sold every year. They have some of the biggest manufacturers too. It is still a utilitarian bike market - but that doesn't mean users will not be interested in races. On the contrary -- the big passion for motorcycle racing in Italy, for instance, developed exactly when the market was all about basic family transport bikes and scooters, in the '50s, '60s and '70s. Only a few people could afford sports bikes, but the rest happily dreamed about them and avidly followed the races and the riders.
Stoner and Pedrosa's first year in MotoGP, and Rossi didn't really have to try. Was defeated by his own machinery/lack of concentration in the preseason more than anything.
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With that being said, how could anyone want GP to go there. I just wish people would appreciate GP for what it is
My attitude to motorsport is similar to yours, I would be quite happy to watch just stoner and pedrosa on factory hondas against lorenzo and spies on factory yamahas; rossi and hayden on competitive ducatis would add some further interest for me personally.
The problems are as I am sure you realise that no-one is going to spend tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to provide something towards which many or most people have a different attitude than you and I do, and that this would also make identifying the 4 or 6 best riders of the next generation rather more difficult.
They need to find some ground as jumkie says where the thing is sustainable but still authentic. I have argued previously as lex has done recently that the FIM bear the ultimate responsibility for losing/selling/whatever they did control of the technical regulations. Despite having followed the sport all these years I don't even know when and how this happened, and where the proceeds if any went. I am not even accusing them of selling out, I can imagine them selling because they thought others with more financial/management/whatever resources would progress the sport better, which would seem to be initially what happened before (again as lex says) some EU regulator forced the re-sale of the sport.
