Expanding MotoGP to the World

Since everybody here is an expert of MotoGP, what are your thoughts and ideas on expanding the sport...



http://motomatters.com/interview/2012/03/28/lin_jarvis_motogp_must_look_to_asia_sout.html

How should MotoGP expand? Fix the product.



Doesn't matter how good (or bad) Dorna is at sales and marketing, MotoGP cannot achieve market penetration with a terrible product. They should be obsessing about the technical regulations, cost structure, and diminishing marginal returns. Without a massive B2B commercial enterprise, like F1, they cannot sell the sport to foreign governments.



If they really care about growing the entire motorcycle market, they should stick with 81mm 4-cylinder 1000cc rules and raise fuel capacity to 24L. Homologate a single set of gear ratios to cut costs further. The formula would be much more entertaining than the current 21L formula, and it would bring many new manufacturers into the fray. Costs are stable. Engines don't have to be redesigned. The sport would be a celebration of motorcycling, in general. Then they can get busy sorting SBK.



If they need something more technologically intricate, they should look at other regulatory options. One way or another, it's all about the technical regulations. The changes to the technical regulations must encourage widespread participation, specifically participation from the seven manufacturers in WSBK (7 in 2011). Then Dorna can sell MotoGP to developing countries.



Without manufacturers, sponsors are hard to come by. Without manufacturers and sponsors, MotoGP has no B2B marketplace. Without a B2B marketplace, MotoGP has nothing to sell to foreign governments. How can they get manufacturers and sponsors? By fixing the technical regulations.



The rules suck b/c of the halo effect. MSMA engineers are uber-competent engineers. They don't know ...., imo, about government or economic theory. We end up with a decaying sport with perverse investment incentives. The FIM was in charge of the rulebook for a reason, and some body politic similar to the FIM should be in charge of the rules.

Depends. would it be quick fix through sanctioning fees, or do these regions really support Moto GP. The worse thing they could do would be to end up with a bunch of races like Qatar, where they bring in a lot of upfront money, but have to televise it to the world that no one is there. One of those on the schedule you can explain away, having 7-8 of them would leave the world with the impression that no one watches GP. If they stick 50-100000 people in the stands, hell yes you go for it.

Jarvis addresses some interesting points. For sure Yamaha want to go to Indonesia. When I was there 3 years ago, I couldn't believe my eyes when I watched a race on TV: the whole studio was in Yamaha decals, and the hosts were dressed in (official!) Yamah team colors. Advertisement nearly everywhere.. Well, Yamaha is big there, but the point is that MotoGP is big there, too, on a huge societal level. Lorenzo and Rossi smiling from ads every few hundred meters. Simply for that they would deserve to have a GP! [And it answers povol's last remark, regarding potential attendance]



As far as the rest of SE-Asia is concerned - I think MotoGP (and other major motorsports, F1 etc.) should have gone to Thailand a long time ago. They are really well developed, are quite much into technology, and racing is big there. Not so sure about Vietnam (though I have never seen so many motorbikes - though mostly scooters - in one place than in Hanoi!). India is a must, anyway. And China, too - I cannot understand why MotoGP moved away from there. Almost every business is expanding to China. Like it or not (I don't), but there's hardly a way around it.



What stuns me most is that MotoGP already has been in some of those places. Same with South America. So there are even a handful of places with experience of hosting a MotoGP round, and some others that did 'at least' F1.

I agree with Prov



Most of the Asian countries, bike sales have nothing to do with a race. It is just transportation that is smaller and cheaper than a car or truck. Look at the attendance when the gp was in China….. I see Chinese made bikes and scooters have soared as to the Japanese. So is this a cheaper way the big two (maybe the 4?) are slyly trying to get Dorna to help foot the marketing bill?

Lex I never thought about standard gear ratios. I think we would still see the same results as what we have now in how more money than be focused into transmission ratios, or valve timing. Not sure any answer would work, unless they applied a money cap which is impossible to enforce.

Traverser said:

Lex I never thought about standard gear ratios. I think we would still see the same results as what we have now in how more money than be focused into transmission ratios, or valve timing. Not sure any answer would work, unless they applied a money cap which is impossible to enforce.

Click to expand...

Not standard, just homologated single set. Each manufacturer can run whatever box and whatever primary they want, but it must be the same at every track. Ratios are modified by playing around with the sprockets. Might actually simplify the traction control electronics, but can't say for certain.



If fuel capacity is increased the sport will change in two ways. First, the bikes will have to be redeveloped. Not the engines, but the chassis and layout. Homologated gearbox could reduce the cost of bike redesign. Second, the 24L capacity would increase performance and reduce lap times. Homologated gearbox could offset the performance increase so lap times and top speeds are similar to the current bikes.

There are many many examples around the world of sports that are pathetic having huge followings.

In Australia we have this ridiculous sport called Rugby League. The absolute crap is promoted out of it and it has a huge follow ing despite it being a patheitc excuse for sport. The stands have just as many women as men and guess what, none of those women ever played it and I can guarantee that most of the men never played it or at best played at school.



Globally soccer is a massive sport. People die over it. Yet many including me would say it is completely boring with a whole game resulting in none to a couple of scores. Then there is the pathetic taking a dive that happens constantly.



What about American Football (I happen to like it) it is often miss understood game and many say it is really boring also. When I watch the stands are always full of women. They never played I would assume.



Baseball. Now that would have to be the slowest game in history. Very popular.



I could go on and on.



The product is not the problem with MotoGP. The selling of it is the problem. People are sheep and will follow who ever leads them and buy what ever they are told to. <



What we are seeing at the moment is MotoGP itself talking down its product through its words and through its actions and the Sheeple are listening. If MotoGP was talking and promoting the fact that they have the fast and most skilled riders on the planet riding the fastest and most advanced motorcycles on the planet and screaming it from the roof top in every form of media existing in every country around the world then things would be different.

Mental Anarchist said:

There are many many examples around the world of sports that are pathetic having huge followings.

In Australia we have this ridiculous sport called Rugby League. The absolute crap is promoted out of it and it has a huge follow ing despite it being a patheitc excuse for sport. The stands have just as many women as men and guess what, none of those women ever played it and I can guarantee that most of the men never played it or at best played at school.



Globally soccer is a massive sport. People die over it. Yet many including me would say it is completely boring with a whole game resulting in none to a couple of scores. Then there is the pathetic taking a dive that happens constantly.



What about American Football (I happen to like it) it is often miss understood game and many say it is really boring also. When I watch the stands are always full of women. They never played I would assume.



Baseball. Now that would have to be the slowest game in history. Very popular.



I could go on and on.



The product is not the problem with MotoGP. The selling of it is the problem. People are sheep and will follow who ever leads them and buy what ever they are told to. <



What we are seeing at the moment is MotoGP itself talking down its product through its words and through its actions and the Sheeple are listening. If MotoGP was talking and promoting the fact that they have the fast and most skilled riders on the planet riding the fastest and most advanced motorcycles on the planet and screaming it from the roof top in every form of media existing in every country around the world then things would be different.

Click to expand...

You raise some good points, for a change. However, a lot of these sports are grass roots based and don't require heafty amounts of coin to participate in for kids growing up, Motorcycle Road Racing does, the other factor is all of these sports feature direct sporting Human Achievement with little or no tech involved-this is why they are popular even though they are sometimes boring. Motogp needs to give more back to the rider to bring back the unpredictability before it can expand.



Also the problem with your last statement, is that Motogp may have the most talented riders in the world-this is debatable however due to the cost involved in reaching this theater, but Motogp does not have the fastest and most advanced motorcycles in the world at all, in fact, Motogp has a grid full of factory robotics on inferior rubber-strangled by regulation created by a single manufacturer looking for dominance. Far from Prototype and far from potentially the fastest bikes on the planet.........look how close WSBK is now to Motogp-this gap should be yawning, but it is not. Motogp only retains a mere 3 of the worlds motorcycle manufacturers, 2 of which are competitive! Hardly the best the world has to offer- ask yourself why the others aren't there?



As I've said before, Motogp needs to sort out what it is selling before it expands, for Robot wars are boring and not popular.

sewarion said:

Jarvis addresses some interesting points. For sure Yamaha want to go to Indonesia. When I was there 3 years ago, I couldn't believe my eyes when I watched a race on TV: the whole studio was in Yamaha decals, and the hosts were dressed in (official!) Yamah team colors. Advertisement nearly everywhere.. Well, Yamaha is big there, but the point is that MotoGP is big there, too, on a huge societal level. Lorenzo and Rossi smiling from ads every few hundred meters. Simply for that they would deserve to have a GP! [And it answers povol's last remark, regarding potential attendance]



As far as the rest of SE-Asia is concerned - I think MotoGP (and other major motorsports, F1 etc.) should have gone to Thailand a long time ago. They are really well developed, are quite much into technology, and racing is big there. Not so sure about Vietnam (though I have never seen so many motorbikes - though mostly scooters - in one place than in Hanoi!). India is a must, anyway. And China, too - I cannot understand why MotoGP moved away from there. Almost every business is expanding to China. Like it or not (I don't), but there's hardly a way around it.



What stuns me most is that MotoGP already has been in some of those places. Same with South America. So there are even a handful of places with experience of hosting a MotoGP round, and some others that did 'at least' F1.

Click to expand...

Been thinking that a long time. Screw China and forget about India which neither cares or knows about racing and won't have the infrastructure to support something that big for at least another 20 years.

Keshav said:

Been thinking that a long time. Screw China and forget about India which neither cares or knows about racing and won't have the infrastructure to support something that big for at least another 20 years.

Click to expand...

Thailand should be the first country to go.



But regarding India.. They (somehow) managed to deal with F1, so they should be ok with MotoGP. And Indian people are very proud when it comes to being considered worthy of hosting big, globally known sports - they know that India is on the rise and what this to be recognized. So the mere fact that of MotoGP going there would create a lot of followers. And even if the relative potential for marketing bikes is not that huge - India has a population of 1 billion plus, many of which are becoming wealthier and thus potential customers. As a global brand that is struggling you must not ignore the world's largest emerging market.

sewarion said:

Thailand should be the first country to go.



But regarding India.. They (somehow) managed to deal with F1, so they should be ok with MotoGP. And Indian people are very proud when it comes to being considered worthy of hosting big, globally known sports - they know that India is on the rise and what this to be recognized. So the mere fact that of MotoGP going there would create a lot of followers. And even if the relative potential for marketing bikes is not that huge - India has a population of 1 billion plus, many of which are becoming wealthier and thus potential customers. As a global brand that is struggling you must not ignore the world's largest emerging market.

Click to expand...

You are thinking in logical terms.... which after 10 years of living in India - I can tell you do not apply to India.

There are zillions of car drivers in India. But owners of modern Jap bikes there are such a tiny minority as to

be virtually non-existent. I'd love to see attendance figures for the one F1 race that was run there in Oct.

Noida which is in Delhi must have been absolute turgid chaos as it's already one of the most congested cities

in the world. In the whole of Delhi there are perhaps 12 traffic lights and almost nobody pays any attention to them.

Well. I think I have to conceed this point to you. From my journey to India I have this lasting impression of millions of Royal Enfields. But I also remember the roads, the traffic, ... and opposite to Thailand, I really cannot remember to have seen only one modern bike.



F1 attendance was 95.000, btw.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-10-30/news/30338995_1_trophy-jaypee-group-red-bull

Mental Anarchist said:

The product is not the problem with MotoGP. The selling of it is the problem. People are sheep and will follow who ever leads them and buy what ever they are told to. <



What we are seeing at the moment is MotoGP itself talking down its product through its words and through its actions and the Sheeple are listening. If MotoGP was talking and promoting the fact that they have the fast and most skilled riders on the planet riding the fastest and most advanced motorcycles on the planet and screaming it from the roof top in every form of media existing in every country around the world then things would be different.

Click to expand...

According to personality theory, a majority of people are traditionalists. They support sports like baseball b/c it is in the cultural fabric of society--a recreational or consumptive activity taught to them by a generation that came before. Those sheeple do not following marketers (unless the marketers are selling a crowd atmosphere). The sheeple follow the pioneering and risk-taking demographic (generally quite small) who change their behavior for substantive reasons. The product must appeal to the idealists, dreamers, fanatics, thinkers, risk takers, anti-establishment segments b/c those people attract the "sheeple".



Poker is an good example of how to grow a business. Traditional game (like moto racing). Get rich quick allure. Almost no boundaries to participation. Poker won over the pioneers in the online gaming demographic. Online gaming fueled growth in the real world at casinos and specialty tournaments. The sheeple showed up.



Actually, that could be a really good way to grow MotoGP. Start a MotoGP fantasy pay league. Seasonal fee of 10 euro gets access to standard def races (not live) on MotoGP.com, as well as fantasy league enrollment. The fantasy league is designed to attract media upgrades to MotoGP.com and upgrades to online gambling sites. Big cash payout from a major sponsor. Won't work if the results are predictable and the races are too processional to watch.

mylexicon said:

Actually, that could be a really good way to grow MotoGP. Start a MotoGP fantasy pay league. Seasonal fee of 10 euro gets access to standard def races (not live) on MotoGP.com, as well as fantasy league enrollment. The fantasy league is designed to attract media upgrades to MotoGP.com and upgrades to online gambling sites. Big cash payout from a major sponsor. Won't work if the results are predictable and the races are too processional to watch.

Click to expand...

Just another example of how MotoGP is failing to capitalise on opportunity.



Your other points are true to but at some point those games had to be promoted to get the first generation connected. Do those sports continue to advertise and promote in the market place? Of coarse they do. If they didn't they would die just like MotoGP is because something else heavily promoted will steal the attention and therefore the viewers and the $$$'s.

I don't know how they could fix it, but if more people experienced the power and noise of a gp bike for real, they could certainly hook more people. Take factory bikes to bike shows for example, and have live demos of them running etc. can u imagine the noise of a gp bike revving up inside a exhibition hall? Fark!

Keshav said:

You are thinking in logical terms.... which after 10 years of living in India - I can tell you do not apply to India.

There are zillions of car drivers in India. But owners of modern Jap bikes there are such a tiny minority as to

be virtually non-existent. I'd love to see attendance figures for the one F1 race that was run there in Oct.

Noida which is in Delhi must have been absolute turgid chaos as it's already one of the most congested cities

in the world. In the whole of Delhi there are perhaps 12 traffic lights and almost nobody pays any attention to them.

Click to expand...

You would know better than us then, but their economy and middle class are expanding and aspirations to higher tech bikes may grow.



Mahindra are already involved in gp racing presumably for a reason, and make and sell a lot of bikes. Indians are quite patriotic, and if there was a successful competitor, either a rider or a team (let's say mahindra-ducati) their 300-400 million strong middle class could possibly be engaged. The IPL cricket league developed from nothing to dominating world cricket and massive money being involved virtually overnight after India won a 20/20 world cup nobody else thought was very momentous; this was on a background of underlying interest in cricket (purists might say the link with traditional cricket is tenuous) but no-one was watching traditional cricket there either. Lex's last post about game/personality theory, poker etc seems relevant .

Mental Anarchist said:

Just another example of how MotoGP is failing to capitalise on opportunity.



Your other points are true to but at some point those games had to be promoted to get the first generation connected. Do those sports continue to advertise and promote in the market place? Of coarse they do. If they didn't they would die just like MotoGP is because something else heavily promoted will steal the attention and therefore the viewers and the $$$'s.

Click to expand...

At the risk of being labelled I don't entirely disagree that some of the recent disquiet with the sport is related to the current champion being less popular than some (or at least one) of his predecessors but they do need to improve the product as lex says. An abstruse engineering competition between 4 bikes is a hard sell to naive audiences.

Talpa said:

You raise some good points, for a change. However, a lot of these sports are grass roots based and don't require heafty amounts of coin to participate in for kids growing up, Motorcycle Road Racing does, the other factor is all of these sports feature direct sporting Human Achievement with little or no tech involved-this is why they are popular even though they are sometimes boring. Motogp needs to give more back to the rider to bring back the unpredictability before it can expand.



Also the problem with your last statement, is that Motogp may have the most talented riders in the world-this is debatable however due to the cost involved in reaching this theater, but Motogp does not have the fastest and most advanced motorcycles in the world at all, in fact, Motogp has a grid full of factory robotics on inferior rubber-strangled by regulation created by a single manufacturer looking for dominance. Far from Prototype and far from potentially the fastest bikes on the planet.........look how close WSBK is now to Motogp-this gap should be yawning, but it is not. Motogp only retains a mere 3 of the worlds motorcycle manufacturers, 2 of which are competitive! Hardly the best the world has to offer- ask yourself why the others aren't there?



As I've said before, Motogp needs to sort out what it is selling before it expands, for Robot wars are boring and not popular.

Click to expand...

Just because the bikes are potentially faster, doesnt mean they are not the fastest and most advanced in the world. At this time, there is not another road racing series in the world who has bikes that match the performance of GP.

Niche sport.

I dont fight it or try to understand how and why it will be more popular.

All I know is the memories and experiences I have had with motorcycles makes me a fan of the sport.

I can only speculate as to why others watch, but I suspect its for similar reasons.



With current contractual obligations riders are either unwilling or unallowed to participate in other variations of motorsport.

The days of old riders would wildcard in many different series, thus broadening their fan base.

Those that lament that the Daytona 200 is a race that once held itself in great esteem and has now become irrelevant need to realize that the 200 didnt suddenly fade away for no reason. Its relevance diminished because named riders decided not to show up.

We cant even get Wsbk guys or Ama guys to race against each other when they are at the same event

When is the last time a GP guy ran the Suzuka 8hr.

There is no greater example of this absurdity then 2 weeks ago when Nicky Hayden couldnt even come to Daytona to watch his brothers because he was in NYC pimping designer jeans.

Americas greatest and most beloved rider cant come to "the world center of racing because he needed to hock some companies wares.



How is this sport ever going to market itself to new audiences when it only allows the world to see them 16 times a year.