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Electronics Insight

Joined May 2007
2K Posts | 0+
N. Ireland
Theres an interesting post on Crash.net about Electronics, unfortunately Ducati & Honda didn't wanna reveal anything but the other manufacturers did.


Kawasaki was using a 'half-and-half' fly-by-wire system - traditional throttle cables control half of the throttle bodies with electronic systems operating the other half. This was done to help rider feel.

Kawasaki was not yet using GPS to provide real-time location-based engine management (it is rumoured that Ducati, for example, already does) however the introduction of such a system was "fairly imminent". Location-based engine management allows the electronics to be tuned to suit each individual corner on a track.

There are about 50 sensors on the ZX-RR but the most important ones are those that measure acceleration, lean angle, front wheel speed, GPS speed and front-wheel suspension stroke.

The electronics identify a loss of rear wheel grip (potential highside) by comparing "front- and rear-wheel speeds with GPS-speed and engine rev-up".

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Yamaha was using a full fly-by-wire system. Throttle cables were still present, but existed only "to provide the rider [with] a conventional [throttle] feel" rather than to directly control the engine.

Yamaha used GPS for on-board data-tagging, but was also not yet using GPS to provide real-time location-based engine management, due to "the tenuous nature of GPS". However, Griffith admitted (with a smile) that the development of a position-based, real-time control system was "one possible direction" for the team.

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Suzuki, like Kawasaki, also uses a 'half-and-half' fly-by-wire system "to retain a conventional throttle feel and give the rider a strong sense of connection to the machine".

When discussing real-time location-based engine management, and the problem of accurately locating the motorcycle on the race track, O'Kane stated that "transponders around the track could be combined with time-distance interpolation to figure out bike location".

The ECU aims to "counters fluctuations of the engine power curve to deliver linear and predictable response for maximum pilot confidence" but must also allow riders to get the limited amount of rear wheel sliding they need.

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I'm a bit surprised at Yamaha using a full fly-by-wire system, maybe Ducati doing the same.
 
Well done bro!
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You just rub it in front of my nose!
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In Australian Motor Cycle News it stated that Yamaha and possibly Ducati use a system based on gyroscopes and not GPS. Mind you they used gyroscopes to get to the moon in 1969.

Apart from the obvious sensors such as wheel speed differential (spin) and rev spike from the motor they use a gyroscope in the front and back of the bike to position the bike in relation to its lean and various other factors such as acceleration or braking and this in aids the computer in controlling the throttle.

I think the GPS stuff is the urban myth version.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Nov 7 2008, 08:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In Australian Motor Cycle News it stated that Yamaha and possibly Ducati use a system based on gyroscopes and not GPS. Mind you they used gyroscopes to get to the moon in 1969.

Apart from the obvious sensors such as wheel speed differential (spin) and rev spike from the motor they use a gyroscope in the front and back of the bike to position the bike in relation to its lean and various other factors such as acceleration or braking and this in aids the computer in controlling the throttle.

I think the GPS stuff is the urban myth version.

That might very well be the truth. Positioning souldn't be that hard as it is a common feature of telemetric software to draw up the track (or more accuratly the motorcycle line) based on gyro information.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Kawasaki was not yet using GPS to provide real-time location-based engine management (it is rumoured that Ducati, for example, already does) however the introduction of such a system was "fairly imminent". Location-based engine management allows the electronics to be tuned to suit each individual corner on a track.

How ... is that?...a computer that adjusts the power to the corner... ....... ... i'd say..
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Nov 7 2008, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That might very well be the truth. Positioning souldn't be that hard as it is a common feature of telemetric software to draw up the track (or more accuratly the motorcycle line) based on gyro information.


When you think about it, if you take an off line into the corner, or you are in the middle of an overtake the gyro is going to pick up those changes and adjust whereas straight GPS will not.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Nov 7 2008, 04:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When you think about it, if you take an off line into the corner, or you are in the middle of an overtake the gyro is going to pick up those changes and adjust whereas straight GPS will not.

Why can't gyroscopes and GPS work together? The way I envision it gyroscopes and GPS would be two controllers making modifications to wheel spin.

For instance a simplified system would work like this:

All of the data is entered into the gyroscopic controlled system. The gyroscope would allow varying amounts of wheelspin based upon how far over the bike is. The GPS would serve as a controlling device location. So maybe at turn 1 the rider wants 10% more wheelspin than normal and at turn 6 the rider wants 5% less.

I can't think of an easier way to do it. It seems like a purely gyroscopic system would be unnecessarily complicated.

The GPS only needs to know what turn a rider is in. Even crappy civilian spec GPS could pull that off. Plus, if you use two simplified controllers it seems like it would be easier to adjust from a programming standpoint.