Ducati winglets

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mylexicon

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Are the Ducati winglets another fruitless fad (i.e. oval-piston 4-strokes) or the beginning of the end for MotoGP?



I think we all understand that winglets are an inexact science in MotoGP because the rider is moving around on the bike which alters airflow and makes winglets and other aero relatively ineffective; however, now that engine power is being regulated by fuel capacity and bore restrictions (2012?) and the tires are controlled, are aerodynamics becoming more attractive to the MSMA?



Imo, aerodynamic downforce to aid cornering is the beginning of the end for MotoGP b/c we've seen what it's done to F1. Is Ducati's latest mod a flop or the future?



Personally, I think it's bad form, but I don't answer to Marlboro. Big tobacco has a slightly different take on decent behavior.
 
I was thinking back to the Ben Lexan "winged keel" on boats, after I saw that. I also wonder if it might not be better done down at the tip of the bottom fairing, ALA Ben Lexan ..... Interesting area to play with for sure, however its not new.
 
mylexicon said:
Are the Ducati winglets another fruitless fad (i.e. oval-piston 4-strokes) or the beginning of the end for MotoGP?



I think we all understand that winglets are an inexact science in MotoGP because the rider is moving around on the bike which alters airflow and makes winglets and other aero relatively ineffective; however, now that engine power is being regulated by fuel capacity and bore restrictions (2012?) and the tires are controlled, are aerodynamics becoming more attractive to the MSMA?



Imo, aerodynamic downforce to aid cornering is the beginning of the end for MotoGP b/c we've seen what it's done to F1. Is Ducati's latest mod a flop or the future?



Personally, I think it's bad form, but I don't answer to Marlboro. Big tobacco has a slightly different take on decent behavior.
Click to expand...



I think you're taking this a bit too hard. For one thing, a "winglet" is a device placed on the end of an aircraft wing to reduce induced drag. An aircraft winglet creates no "force" other than normal form drag but exist solely to reduce induced (byproduct of lift) drag. The devices that Ducati are using are bandaid's! They are there to temporarily correct what has become an obvious design/geometry problem that has plagued the GP 10 since it's inception. Ducati has not been able to develop the requisite grip via normal chassis adjustments and this "fix" is just that.....a fix. I suspect the GP11 will have no such device and other manufacturers will not need said devices now or ever. Ducati has geometric issues that they seem unable to fix. Honda and Yamaha don't seem to need them.



Basically, the Ducati is fugged up and this "downforce creator" is there to provide needed help until the GP11 is created......
 
I have to wonder how much good the wingy thingys do. When the bike is cranked over to 70-odd degrees, the vast portion of generated down force is no longer pushing in the 'down' direction. If anything, the aero forces would tend to push the front end to the outside of the corner.



To make this idea work, you need to tweak the leading edge of the fairing, forks, etc. such that the entire fairing starts to act like a wing. Perhaps it's possible to create an interaction with the rider, whereby the hung-off rider's leg, arms and body disrupt airflow over the 'down' side of the bike, causing a zone of low pressure and downforce. If this is possible, it will likely require all manner of weird fairing shapes, winglets, and other ugly junk hanging off the bike. Eff Wun indeed!
 
levigarrett said:
I think you're taking this a bit too hard. For one thing, a "winglet" is a device placed on the end of an aircraft wing to reduce induced drag. An aircraft winglet creates no "force" other than normal form drag but exist solely to reduce induced (byproduct of lift) drag. The devices that Ducati are using are bandaid's! They are there to temporarily correct what has become an obvious design/geometry problem that has plagued the GP 10 since it's inception. Ducati has not been able to develop the requisite grip via normal chassis adjustments and this "fix" is just that.....a fix. I suspect the GP11 will have no such device and other manufacturers will not need said devices now or ever. Ducati has geometric issues that they seem unable to fix. Honda and Yamaha don't seem to need them.



Basically, the Ducati is fugged up and this "downforce creator" is there to provide needed help until the GP11 is created......
Click to expand...



I think the press is referring to them as winglets b/c they are small and the little airfoils actually have winglets as well. It's kind of double entendre.
 
I beleive there was a guy who raced with some sort of wings in the British championships in the 70`s....I`ll do some digging.
 
my thoughts on this is that the winglets didn’t help (just an afterthought bandaid solution to the lift problem at ducati) and at sachsenring stoner was still getting lift on the straight and it could have been quite decisive if the bike would have lifted more than it did for him but nicky did get lotz of lift and it did affect his performance from what I saw of him quite substantially…i don’t think that winglets will be a thing of the future but maybe a redesign of the dukes fairing to incorporate a downforce affect could be an overall answer and could provide a solution to the problem
 
Arn't these to help Duc & Casey etc bcs no one can find why there having front end probs
<
 
I can't wait to see him fly right off the top of the cork screw at laguna!
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But seriously....aren't they supposed to create down force?
 
bonnielass said:
I can't wait to see him fly right off the top of the cork screw at laguna!
<




But seriously....aren't they supposed to create down force?
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Yes. Guareschi explained them on Italian TV saying they are designed to keep the bike a little bit more down during acceleration. He offered no data of course. So they are designed to be useful under precise circumstances and basically do nothing the rest o the time. We'll see. The riders have accepted them, so for sure they were not creating any problem at least
<
 
J4rn0 said:
Yes. Guareschi explained them on Italian TV saying they are designed to keep the bike a little bit more down during acceleration. He offered no data of course. So they are designed to be useful under precise circumstances and basically do nothing the rest o the time. We'll see. The riders have accepted them, so for sure they were not creating any problem at least
<
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Band-aid for riders brains...
 
Everybody's talking about F1 but who knows? Inspiration can come from the most unexpected places.
 

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Scotty said:
my thoughts on this is that the winglets didn’t help (just an afterthought bandaid solution to the lift problem at ducati) and at sachsenring stoner was still getting lift on the straight and it could have been quite decisive if the bike would have lifted more than it did for him but nicky did get lotz of lift and it did affect his performance from what I saw of him quite substantially…i don’t think that winglets will be a thing of the future but maybe a redesign of the dukes fairing to incorporate a downforce affect could be an overall answer and could provide a solution to the problem
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Maybe they helped a little comming up the hill at the finish straight and also going down the slope (the fast righthander),keeping the front wheel on the ground.

But as you said,they might not be permanent.I don't know.Maybe this is a track with special circumstances.
 

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