DQ of Hayes appealed...

But the Erion is not a full on factory bike, so I do not get that.

All depends on the rules.

What a tangled web the AMA weaves.
It sounds odd that Erion says they passed tech last year with a similar crank.
It's almost like they were saying yeah we know we were cheating but they let it by last year.
Since that bike was on the podium every week than they should have found the same infraction many times over. That is if FX does Tech inspections after every race.
Why did the AMA let it pass last year is what bothers me. They should have cited Erion then. By letting it go it creates a bigger problem and taints their most prestegious race of the year.
If the facts are that they ran an illegal crank than I believe it should not be overturned. Erion should have known better even if one guy let it pass. Now the AMA may have completely ...... up by letting it pass but if the rule states it was an infraction then they are doing the right thing now.
My guess is no they won't overturn which is the right thing to do if the facts are correct.
Sucks for Josh though.
How much cake do you think he lost off the deal?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 18 2008, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Johnny, I am of the opinion that their point (Erion Honda) was NOT that they "cheated" and the AMA let it go; but rather, that they did NOT CHEAT, and so perhaps there is a misinterpretation of the rule by this new inspector. I think the issue is "degree", in other words, the parts are allowed to be ported (polished) to a certain spec, but to what point is it allowed, and to what "degree" the surface area is allowed to be polished is the issue. All podium bikes are inspected and some random bikes in the field. So I think they have a pretty good argument to begin with, and that is, if they were making the same modification all last year, and it was never deemed "illegal" then this is the defacto guidance from the AMA, in other words, in effect they answered what is and is not the interpretation of the technical rule. The guidance in this case came in the form of allowing for that modification, therefore, by precedence, it was being allowed, and should continue to be allowed. Subsequent to the last race, then if it is their policy to interpret the rule differently, then from this point it should be communicated to the teams that this degree of modification is ‘now’ deemed technically illegal.

As for me, if this is the case, then I don’t only think it should be overturned, but a public apology should come with it.

With the AMA,it is quite possible,even probable that the TI from last year was incompetent,didnt give a .... or both.If the bikes that finished 2nd and 3rd were legal,they didnt misinterpret the rule book like Erion is claiming they did.The part thats going to get them is the removed metal from the crank.They might have been able to ........ their way thru the part about polished and treated BEARING SURFACES,saying they thought the whole crank was a bearing surface but puposley lightening the crank is one i dont think they will get away with.

I defenitely don't know but I thought the rule was black and white. You either could or couldn't modify the crank. If you throw degree into it than my arguement would sway over to the Erion side.
It does sound like this is the case. That bike is pretty much assured a podium at Daytona so it would be foolish to have a bike with illegal parts..
But then I have to wonder about something Nicky Hayden said recently when he was asked about his experiences with his late crew chief Merlyn Plumlee. ( I'm not sure where I read it)
Merlyn asked him at the beginning of the season if he was sure Nicky wanted him as his crew chief in the Supersport class. Nicky understood that Merlyn was referring to the fact that he was a CC that would always run a clean bike while another CC might be willing to cross the line which supposedly was the norm in that class.
So maybe the AMA totally ...... up but also maybe with the new ownership they are starting to clean things up and enforce previously lax rules.
If it is the latter than I would not be opposed to more of this in an effort to create better parity.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 18 2008, 06:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well I don't think there was any deliberate cheating going on. Remember that the Jordan bike was impounded similarly and looked at, but then it was found to be within spec last year at Laguna. I hope the same benefit of the doubt will be given toward Erion Honda, otherwise they may have to take a look at their past treatment of some more privileged riders. But it’s not like the AMA have a great history of being very hard on Suzuki.

As far as cheating and cheaters go, I will never forget that the biggest real cheater is Mat Mladin. Oh yeah, I know many of you forgot by now. But let me remind you guys of Mladin's deliberate interruption of Ben Bostrom's qualifying in Colorado, Pikes Peak, back in 1999. Mladin was on provisional pole and as Bostrom was in his qualifying session, Mladin interfered. Mladin was later docked the point he received for getting the pole (Rule violation:Engaging in any unfair practice, misbehavior or action detrimental to the sport of motorcycling…) <look it up, its fact>. But he was allowed to still start from the pole position! However, he should have started from the rear of the grid! It was a tight championship between Bostrom and Mladin, but would have been tighter had Mladin not been allowed to start from pole. He ended up coming in 4th, behind Nicky Hayden (Doug Chandler won the race). But this sealed the deal for Mladin to win the championship by ten points as Bostrom dropped back in the order. He arrogantly later said it was a “good strategy” for the title and hoped he would not have to use it again next year if his competition was slower. This to me was one of the first incidents that revealed Mladin’s true colors and I have felt the same about him since—arrogant cheater who got away with it enabled by the AMA and the beginning of the Suzuki cup era. Perhaps this is why he stayed in the AMA, and never moved up to challenge himself in the international arena. Hell, why would he, his lack of integrity was a great marriage with those who would enable him here in the States.

Yea but wasnt that for something like a vent tube or some ........ like that.Modifying a crank and running a vent tube in the wrong direction is night and day difference.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 19 2008, 01:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When it comes to splitting hairs as to what is and what is not “technically” legal, then one can say it is all “........”.

That is so true in a technical standpoint, but in this case there was i believe, 3 teams involved and it had to do with a vent tube that was routed wrong.They deemed it not to have any performance advantage what so ever so they gave points back,It didnt involve taking a win away.You cant have the same punishment for all rules.That would be like saying the punishment should be the same for all felons regardless of their charge.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Mar 19 2008, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When it comes to splitting hairs as to what is and what is not “technically” legal, then one can say it is all “........”.

^^^I am sorry to disappoint you Jumkie but it looks like they did cheat. I can only hope that Josh Hayes was not party to this modification to the crankshaft.

If the issue turns out to be an issue with the clarity of the rules i would say that the points should be reinstated and the rules clarified for the future. If this is not the case the appeal should be thrown out regardless of performance advantage, rules are rules.

Try this article: http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=32029

It looks pretty clear they cheated. The only reason they were caught is because the chap who does the post race tech inspections is an ex crew chief. Shame on Honda, and on Josh if he knew about it.