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Dorna the Internet Police

Joined Nov 2007
3K Posts | 1+
Paso Robles, CA USA
Kropkins Take - from motogpmatters.com

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>The reasoning behind the heavy-handed action is simple, and to some extent understandable. Dorna earns many millions of dollars in revenue from TV broadcasters, who do not take kindly to seeing the material they paid so heavily for being available online for free. But what is interesting about the blocked videos on Youtube is that the copyright claims are all issued by Dorna, rather than the companies actually broadcasting the material. Footage can be found on Youtube from the German broadcaster DSF, the Italian broadcasters Italia 1 and Mediaset, the BBC, Eurosport, in its many national incarnations, but each time these videos are removed, it is always at the behest of Dorna, not the broadcaster.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>It is even self-defeating. Video of that last dramatic lap at Barcelona immediately hit Youtube and motorcycle forums all over the world, and the reactions were delirious. Former fans who had given up on MotoGP after the recent processional racing, and newbies who had never even considered watching the sport before were instantly converted: Those two minutes of visceral action made more new converts to bike racing than any marketing action has done in a very long time. They were the best advert for the sport imaginable, and came with two likable, vivid personalities involved.

But instead of leaving them up as a marketing exercise, Dorna has done all in its power to have them removed. All that free publicity is gone at a single stroke. The many millions of dollars which Fiat, for example, pours into the sport is less effective, with all that advertising for their product gone.

It's a tough call. On one hand you need to protect your asset. On the other you need to promote your asset. The internet is not going away and is virtually impossible to police. Dorna need to hire some marketing and interent savvy business employees and see how they can start making all this work for them. Kropkin points out that this last round has sparked interest from fans and non-fans a like. What he doesn't point out is that the 18 or so races in between that were pure hell to watch for the non-fan or casual fan and it does nothing for them to see boring clips of a motorcycle parade. Let Dorna make their action clips to propagandize themselves and close all other media outlets. IMO they are fighting a losing battle and need to start thinking a bit more creatively.

I watch the races on speed and then I download them from the internet and watch them again. Is that bad? Actually, I record the races on my TIVO so I can fastforward through all the advertisements
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Thoughts.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jun 18 2009, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dorna are a bunch of short sighted morons, but we all knew that didn't we
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YESSSSSSSSS! they are!

thats exactly what i think when i see how they ban vids from youtube! they should be DELIGHTED that other people make such cool videos! just think back of the one with song "animals"!!! WOW!

but the law gives them the right and in this way they are right! but i think they are doing themselves no favour!

motogp is expensive nuff! i spend round 500 dollars a year for it going to two races n stuff.

the heart dies where the money comes in and dorna take it a bit too serious!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jun 18 2009, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm going to harm this fool

http://www.youtube.com/t/contentid

I know Dorna have the rights… but who in their right mind would not want ads to be seen by the most people? Isn’t that what Sponsors want in the first place? If I was Dorna I would charge for all the footage as long as it still ultimate news, once this ends, I would give it out for free.

Wouldn’t Marlboro still pay if 10 year old races be seen today? There was a lack of sponsorship so get the old ones tempted… This also would increase viewers (and fan base) so new sponsors come by themselves!
 
IMO it is a tough call because as you say, TV is a DORNA asset and you don't want people taking advantage of that asset and not paying for the priviledge. But there is also a requirement to promote that asset and market it such that you give the sponsors value for money and hopefully can utilise that marketing to attract more sponsors.

So I do understand their issue but also believe that they maye be going about it wrong.

To me, I can understand their 'taking down' of YouTube clips immeidately after the race as they need to ensure that all subscribing broadcasters can show the race without the viewer having watched large chunks for free.

To me the answer should be that DORNA control the release or all footage and should undertake to release a 4 - 5 minute highlight package within 5 days and then post it to teh net themselves. This way they control what is seen and what is availabe which means that if the teaser is good enough then people may subscribe to the fulkl service

My thoughts anyway and they are abbreviated as I need to be somewhere, sorry





Gaz
 
Hollywood should banned their movie trailers too! Only paid trailer viewers can watch them!
 
In the business where I work, (web design), copyright on the internet is a major thing.

For example, if you search for an image on google and use it on another website (either personal or a client) you're in big ...... my boss got sued 2000 GBP (my pound sign doesnt work) for it..

This is the same thing. Dorna has to be paid for the media to used.. its Dorna who promotes and sells it to BBC and Eurosport, but they still own the copyright.

So all the people who say its actually BBC's to take down etc no -

For example: I buy a can of Stella Artois, rebrand it as Ricky's Beer and sell it on for free or for profit or whatever, anything for a personal gain (in this case hits on utube, popularity) and got caught, that would cause me a lot of trouble.

So the same applies to media, something they pay to record promote etc and then they see it free on the web, they have every right to take it down.

MotoGP now has such a status (except in UK where Dorna / BBC do .... all to promote it, although there were a lot of brits in the Catalan GP) that they don't need fans to promote it by pirating there media.

I'm not against it, but they have every right to do what they are doing.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rickyduck @ Jun 19 2009, 03:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In the business where I work, (web design), copyright on the internet is a major thing.

For example, if you search for an image on google and use it on another website (either personal or a client) you're in big ...... my boss got sued 2000 GBP (my pound sign doesnt work) for it..

This is the same thing. Dorna has to be paid for the media to used.. its Dorna who promotes and sells it to BBC and Eurosport, but they still own the copyright.

So all the people who say its actually BBC's to take down etc no -

For example: I buy a can of Stella Artois, rebrand it as Ricky's Beer and sell it on for free or for profit or whatever, anything for a personal gain (in this case hits on utube, popularity) and got caught, that would cause me a lot of trouble.

So the same applies to media, something they pay to record promote etc and then they see it free on the web, they have every right to take it down.

MotoGP now has such a status (except in UK where Dorna / BBC do .... all to promote it, although there were a lot of brits in the Catalan GP) that they don't need fans to promote it by pirating there media.

I'm not against it, but they have every right to do what they are doing.

It doesn't matter who owns the content. Youtube's Content ID screener is going to remove all MotoGP race/practice footage regardless of who broadcast it.

I think the real problem was the tools at Daidegas.it They used to make Rossi compilations daily and then plug their own website using Dorna's content. Yet another wonderful contribution courtesy of the boppers. Dorna's reactionary stance towards the rip off artists has cost us all dearly.

Though, Daidegas.it was breaking the law, it wasn't costing Dorna a dime. Dorna shot down the entire youtube hype machine to stop Daidegas.it from plugging their own website.
 
I think the Dorna attitude to youtube is crazy, if someone was to see a creative video of the Spanish GP the most they are going to want to do is watch the next race live. They may even investigate motogp.com if the logo is plastered in the corner. Not many new fans are going to be interested in the historic content anyway, because it's always about the next race, the next fresh piece of excitement. Draw the line at whole races being put up, but for godsake don't stifle the creativity. Surely 1000 unpaid video editors are a resource/asset not to be squandered?

It's rather short sighted to see youtube as a promotional resource (they have their own channel), & then to have other videos removed. More videos, more coverage, more interest, more money.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jun 20 2009, 01:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>wow.... i guess not even home made at the track videos will be allowed now.
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...... rediculous!
Next Dorna will be banning cameras at the races. i cant see how they can claim a copyright on a film or picture you took yourself.
 
I guess I feel the same way about it as the day my mother in law told me the first time she ever paid taxes was when she hit 70. Until then she paid nothing while co-owning 2 restaurants for over 40 years. I said to her one day that she was driving on my roads and she just didn't get it. Cried like hell to have to pay. I showed her my return and she almost fainted.

If you want something you are at the mercy of the owner/creator. You have to pay what they say and how they say. Everyone wants everything for free or they gripe. I pay Dorna and get everything I want for such a ridiculously low cost it is unreal. I have eaten at a restaurant and paid more for my wife and I for one meal than the entire charge from Dorna for the whole year more times than I can remember...what is the big deal? You guys make it sound like they are charging you 10 grand it is 50E...BTW I work for a normal salary.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jun 21 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess I feel the same way about it as the day my mother in law told me the first time she ever paid taxes was when she hit 70. Until then she paid nothing while co-owning 2 restaurants for over 40 years. I said to her one day that she was driving on my roads and she just didn't get it. Cried like hell to have to pay. I showed her my return and she almost fainted.

If you want something you are at the mercy of the owner/creator. You have to pay what they say and how they say. Everyone wants everything for free or they gripe. I pay Dorna and get everything I want for such a ridiculously low cost it is unreal. I have eaten at a restaurant and paid more for my wife and I for one meal than the entire charge from Dorna for the whole year more times than I can remember...what is the big deal? You guys make it sound like they are charging you 10 grand it is 50E...BTW I work for a normal salary.

You are totally right GS, I pay 45E a year and get almost everything (not what they call HD). Still, without the costing, I think Dorna should give away old news/races for free, this would increase the fan base and Dorna could charge some cash to old sponsor for every old race downloaded or seen.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jun 22 2009, 04:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess I feel the same way about it as the day my mother in law told me the first time she ever paid taxes was when she hit 70. Until then she paid nothing while co-owning 2 restaurants for over 40 years. I said to her one day that she was driving on my roads and she just didn't get it. Cried like hell to have to pay. I showed her my return and she almost fainted.

If you want something you are at the mercy of the owner/creator. You have to pay what they say and how they say. Everyone wants everything for free or they gripe. I pay Dorna and get everything I want for such a ridiculously low cost it is unreal. I have eaten at a restaurant and paid more for my wife and I for one meal than the entire charge from Dorna for the whole year more times than I can remember...what is the big deal? You guys make it sound like they are charging you 10 grand it is 50E...BTW I work for a normal salary.
so what about dorna pulling video's made by people who went to the race, surely there the "owner/creator" not dorna ?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Jun 22 2009, 03:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess I feel the same way about it as the day my mother in law told me the first time she ever paid taxes was when she hit 70. Until then she paid nothing while co-owning 2 restaurants for over 40 years. I said to her one day that she was driving on my roads and she just didn't get it. Cried like hell to have to pay. I showed her my return and she almost fainted.

If you want something you are at the mercy of the owner/creator. You have to pay what they say and how they say. Everyone wants everything for free or they gripe. I pay Dorna and get everything I want for such a ridiculously low cost it is unreal. I have eaten at a restaurant and paid more for my wife and I for one meal than the entire charge from Dorna for the whole year more times than I can remember...what is the big deal? You guys make it sound like they are charging you 10 grand it is 50E...BTW I work for a normal salary.
I agree with you as well. Whilst not a fan of dorna's ability to run motorcycling racing championships or devise rules for same, I think the motogp subscription represents exceptional entertainment value for the money. The price in australia is basically equivalent to a single premium playstation game of the type my nephews request for birthday presents.

In all fairness to dorna the racing seems to be getting better as well, as some(notably roger) predicted if the formula was given time to mature.
 

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