Do you beleive Ducati could of been a contender in the previous 4 years....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Sep 3 2007, 02:42 PM) [snapback]88466[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
given that stoner has come on board and blew every one away this year.... do you think that ducati already had the machinary in the previous 4 years?

for one ducati always had a HP advantage. , but was never utalised to its full potential.

given loris had only 90 points this season and has had his least competitve season to date, that would tell us that the ducati hasnt made a huge leap forward, the only difference has been a change in rider.

i got a feeling that ducati, if it had better riders would of won a few championships already.


Hard to say really... Capirex while being a good, fast & reliable rider has never seemed to want to jump up to that last level that would've made him a legend. When he's motivated though he can achieve incredible things!

Bayliss was seemingly out of his comfort zone during his stint in MotoGP, although last years final race proved what he was really capable of when he took the thing by the scruff of the neck.

Gibernau, well... I think that he had his head in a very bad place in his short & forgettable time with Ducati.

And as for the bikes themselves I think that it's been an evolution, much like the Honda NSR 500 2 stroke had, albeit much more rapid. The earlier models were fast in the straight line but the handling wasn't up to spec.

But as the years have passed improvements have been gradually made to the point where now they're not only fast but handle & stop pretty well too!

Maybe not quite a good as the Yamaha but that would be asking for a miracle...

On last year's machine Casey would definitely have been in with the show & Capirex was a bit unlucky to not have ended up a lot higher in the championship.

Tricky question!

2003-NO
Capirossi top 5 I think
Bayliss started the year brilliantly-5th, 4th and then 3rd in the first 3 races. Amazing for a novice.
Mid -year the Hondas improved significantly and Ducati not competitive

2004- NO The Ducati an absolute pig
2005- MAYBE The Ducati gets better-Stoner may have won on it
2006- YES Capirossi could have , would have won without the Gibernau collision. And Stoner would have won on it.

2007- Ducati is very fast and ok in other areas
Brilliant pilot uses Ducatis assets and covers its weaknesses

I don't think Ducati or Bridgestone were in a position to win the world title until last year, where they arguably had the best package and were certainly contenders.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Sep 3 2007, 05:42 AM) [snapback]88466[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
given that stoner has come on board and blew every one away this year.... do you think that ducati already had the machinary in the previous 4 years?

for one ducati always had a HP advantage. , but was never utalised to its full potential.

given loris had only 90 points this season and has had his least competitve season to date, that would tell us that the ducati hasnt made a huge leap forward, the only difference has been a change in rider.

i got a feeling that ducati, if it had better riders would of won a few championships already.

not a chance.
stones had real high speed problems, remember shinya at mugello and the duc was racing without a front mug guard (fender) because of it's over heating problems. the early duc has shed loads of power like the cube but both bikes handled like a twisted shopping trolly. stoner was not ready to ride a bike like todays duc back then because he was still on his learning curve (tasting gravel ).
mabe im wrong, but i think your implying that if stoner rode for duc back then he would by now with duc be multiple champions. thats laughable, im sorry but i really cant take threads like this seriously.
( cheerleader alert)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Sep 3 2007, 12:46 PM) [snapback]88518[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
not a chance.
stones had real high speed problems, remember shinya at mugello and the duc was racing without a front mug guard (fender) because of it's over heating problems. the early duc has shed loads of power like the cube but both bikes handled like a twisted shopping trolly. stoner was not ready to ride a bike like todays duc back then because he was still on his learning curve (tasting gravel ).
mabe im wrong, but i think your implying that if stoner rode for duc back then he would by now with duc be multiple champions. thats laughable, im sorry but i really cant take threads like this seriously.
( cheerleader alert)


I think somebody riding a second a lap faster than capirossi, as stoner is this year, could easily have won on last year's ducati. Capirossi had bad luck and made a fairly good challenge himself. Could stoner last year have ridden
a second a lap faster than capirossi on last year's ducati? I agree, probably not.

Ducati could not have won the title in 2003, 2004 or 2005. As other bikes were better. Bayliss and Checa aren't good enough riders to win motogp world championship.

In 2006 they possibly could have had Capirossi not been involved in the Catalunya crash. But then you could also argue that Rossi on Yamaha or Melandri on Honda could have won the title without their problems. Hayden won the title and thats the end of it!

In 2007 they have the best bike and tyres and Casey is making full use of it and not making mistakes in the races. Capirossi is underperforming rather than Casey being the crucial difference.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Sep 3 2007, 01:12 PM) [snapback]88527[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
dude who mentioned casey riding for ducati in 2003 or even in 2006?? i was refering to other top riders at the time maybe a biaggi or a melandri.


Or hayden himself in 2006.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Valentino Is God @ Sep 3 2007, 10:58 PM) [snapback]88523[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
In 2007 they have the best bike and tyres and Casey is making full use of it and not making mistakes in the races. Capirossi is underperforming rather than Casey being the crucial difference.


Oh, here we go again...

To pinch the thought of another forum member... "that pesky #27 Ducati has the most amazing autopilot doesn't it? It manages to win all these races with so little input from the rider!"

Should we start labelling the top of Vale's 2002 & 2003 championship winning seasons with "he had the best bike and tyres and Rossi is making full use of it and not making mistakes in the races."

I don't think so...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Sep 3 2007, 02:12 PM) [snapback]88527[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
dude who mentioned casey riding for ducati in 2003 or even in 2006?? i was refering to other top riders at the time maybe a biaggi or a melandri.

i no exactly what you ment, you showed your hand with your first sentence mate
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>given that stoner has come on board and blew every one away this year.... do you think that ducati already had the machinery in the previous 4 years?
im not taking anything away from stoner this year, dony proved to me he was the real deal and it was he rather than the bike making the difference, if you dont believe i said that look back at the dony thread.
what im seeing here is a thinly veiled attempt to take away rossis achievements by a "what if"
im just to long in the tooth now to fall for that crap.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Sep 3 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]88546[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i "no" jack ....

then were in agreement

no, ducati are a contender this year because they have done some serious work on that 800 and yamaha and honda have messed up

in a way, i want this season over and the next to start as soon as possible because hopefully the japanese factories will book their ideas up and the championship will be a lot more interesting. do you think when stoner has won the crown he'll let others win for a change...? probably not

I think that in 2006, and 2006 alone, the ducati may have been the fastest bike. Bayliss jumping off a plane and winning in a one-off ride would seem to support this, although admittedly rossi fell and nicky didn't need to win once this happened. If the honda wasn't the fastest bike this enhances rather than detracts from hayden's championship win.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(muzzy57 @ Sep 3 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]88532[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Oh, here we go again...

To pinch the thought of another forum member... "that pesky #27 Ducati has the most amazing autopilot doesn't it? It manages to win all these races with so little input from the rider!"


oh, here we go again. another new aussie cheerleader!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(muzzy57 @ Sep 3 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]88532[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Should we start labelling the top of Vale's 2002 & 2003 championship winning seasons with "he had the best bike and tyres and Rossi is making full use of it and not making mistakes in the races."

I don't think so...


yes i dont think anyone has ever disputed that the factory honda was the best 990 and in his 2 years on it Rossi won the title.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stop_killing_dead_things @ Sep 3 2007, 02:50 PM) [snapback]88549[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
no, ducati are a contender this year because they have done some serious work on that 800 and yamaha and honda have messed up

in a way, i want this season over and the next to start as soon as possible because hopefully the japanese factories will book their ideas up and the championship will be a lot more interesting. do you think when stoner has won the crown he'll let others win for a change...? probably not


read in an interview by Burgess i think that he was saying that yamaha had focused too much on the end of the 2006 season and pretty much ignored the 2007 bike and left it too late to really get the bike up to the top level of the ducati. presumably same applies to honda. ducati worked on the 800 from very early on and so were in a good position. this would explain why suzuki and kawasaki have closed the gap also.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Valentino Is God @ Sep 3 2007, 03:14 PM) [snapback]88554[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
read in an interview by Burgess i think that he was saying that yamaha had focused too much on the end of the 2006 season and pretty much ignored the 2007 bike and left it too late to really get the bike up to the top level of the ducati. presumably same applies to honda. ducati worked on the 800 from very early on and so were in a good position. this would explain why suzuki and kawasaki have closed the gap also.


definately, i wonder how honda will develop the 08 bike though, Dani is focused on getting second in the championship so i doubt he will develop anything and nicky want to win races. i think nicky should develop it, maybe he would start winning again...

im really impressed with suzuki and kawasaki they now have bikes that are competitive. kawasaki just need a better #1 rider, it doesnt help development if its being chucked in the gravel all the time (which of course they will have next year)

The ducati was in very capable hands with Gibernau. The main thing that was holding them back for at least the last couple of years have been the development of the tyres.

I attest that Checa's year on the ducati saw big improvements in the handling and overall balance of the machine. Checa is a helluva development rider. Ducat's offer to retain him as a test rider is a testimony to his skills. Gibernau also would have contributed to the handling and balance of the machine. Two years of good feedback from some very experienced guys.

Tyres
It has been batted around that the feeling of the Bstones at the front are so much better than the Michelins. Remember Checa was a crasher until he got on the bstones. Now he is back to his crashing ways. Gibernau always could qualify well. But the bike last year had all of the pieces of the puzzle in place except for a great tyre. Bridgestone was good in spots but this year they are competitive all around.

That is the difference in the tyres.
Rider
Gibernau was a serious threat last year. His circumstances didn't let him fulfill his potential. This year the tyres are great and Stoner is finally with a good team with a great package.
For once, a rider change turned out great instead of chasing the better package ending up with nothing..
Look at Biaggi, Nakano, Checa, Barros and the list goes on.

The real question is:Will Ducati be contenders for the next 4 years ?
The short of it: yes.

The long is: Melandri and Stoner both stay healthy and Ducati stays ahead of the development curve -then they will have a great bike.

State of the tyre rules...
with all of the complaints about the current state of things, the rules may change. Hopefully Bridgestone continues to out perform Michelin.

Other Manufacturers.
Honda will be back with a vengance.
Yamaha will not take things lying down.

Repsol needs a team approach - 1-2 punch from Hayden and Pedrosa. A bike they both can exploit to the fullest.
Yamaha is putting up a three headed - three pronged attack. Toseland and Lorenzo will make a great show for next season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Duc999 @ Sep 3 2007, 05:24 PM) [snapback]88579[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The ducati was in very capable hands with Gibernau. The main thing that was holding them back for at least the last couple of years have been the development of the tyres.

I attest that Checa's year on the ducati saw big improvements in the handling and overall balance of the machine. Checa is a helluva development rider. Ducat's offer to retain him as a test rider is a testimony to his skills. Gibernau also would have contributed to the handling and balance of the machine. Two years of good feedback from some very experienced guys.

Tyres
It has been batted around that the feeling of the Bstones at the front are so much better than the Michelins. Remember Checa was a crasher until he got on the bstones. Now he is back to his crashing ways. Gibernau always could qualify well. But the bike last year had all of the pieces of the puzzle in place except for a great tyre. Bridgestone was good in spots but this year they are competitive all around.

That is the difference in the tyres.
Rider
Gibernau was a serious threat last year. His circumstances didn't let him fulfill his potential. This year the tyres are great and Stoner is finally with a good team with a great package.
For once, a rider change turned out great instead of chasing the better package ending up with nothing..
Look at Biaggi, Nakano, Checa, Barros and the list goes on.

The real question is:Will Ducati be contenders for the next 4 years ?
The short of it: yes.

The long is: Melandri and Stoner both stay healthy and Ducati stays ahead of the development curve -then they will have a great bike.

State of the tyre rules...
with all of the complaints about the current state of things, the rules may change. Hopefully Bridgestone continues to out perform Michelin.

Other Manufacturers.
Honda will be back with a vengance.
Yamaha will not take things lying down.

Repsol needs a team approach - 1-2 punch from Hayden and Pedrosa. A bike they both can exploit to the fullest.
Yamaha is putting up a three headed - three pronged attack. Toseland and Lorenzo will make a great show for next season.

good post

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(stop_killing_dead_things @ Sep 3 2007, 09:22 AM) [snapback]88558[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
definately, i wonder how honda will develop the 08 bike though, Dani is focused on getting second in the championship so i doubt he will develop anything and nicky want to win races. i think nicky should develop it, maybe he would start winning again...

I think I remember Nicky saying in an interview a while back that he wanted to start testing new parts and trying to get development caught up.