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Conspiracy GP

Joined Mar 2007
8K Posts | 2K+
Texas
I was reading August issue of Roadracing World and I stumbled upon an interesting article about the new Dunlop Qualifier II. It may have provided the very simple conceptual information necessary to solve the tire "conspiracy" that occurred at the end of the 2007 season.

First things first. The Dunlop article was extremely detailed but most importantly it showed graphs of the actual contact patch under riding circumstances. The contact patch does indeed get smaller as the bike is leaned over, even tires with an aggressive profile like the new Dunlop II. In the article, Dunlop demonstrated that the new Dunlop II has a maximum contact patch at 45 degrees whereas the old tire had a maximum contact patch at 30 degrees. Though both feature sticky rubber, the durability and performance of the new Dunlop II was said to be vastly superior to the older tire. The article was extremely detailed and showed not only the size and shape of the contact patch at various lean angles, but also the cornering forces on each section of the contact patch.

So any way, last year I had surmised that they had made both the Bridgestone and the Michelins more or less spec by regulating the carcass, but I really didn't have any idea how they would pull it off. After reading the Dunlop article, I think I over complicated things. Dorna could very easily have regulated tire profile without having to mandate a spec carcass. Controlling the profile allows them to regulate the contact patch and the levels of edge grip, theoretically. If the governing body was concerned with the growth of conerspeed, what better way to slow the bikes down than to make sure less contact patch is available at full lean?

We know that they eliminated dual compound tires for 2008 thanks to the Bstone press release saying that they were anxious to bring them back from the day they were named single supplier (2008). I now think that Dorna imposed a spec profile on Bstone and Michelin. In addition, I think they may also have regulated tire weight and Dorna may have banned certain materials if one of the manufacturers had a technological advantage stemming from a newly developed carcass material.

Spec profile is a more probable scenario than control carcass. I would have cut costs and controlled performance at the same time. Unfortunately, both Michelin and Bstone had feverish development in 2008. Eventually, Bridgestone developed the super squishy Rossi/Stoner front tire that was probably superior to the Michelins because it enlarged the size of the contact patch at full lean. Pedrosa jumped off of the Michelin ship and Dorna realized their attempts to save the tire war had failed.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Sep 23 2009, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spec profile is a more probable scenario than control carcass. I would have cut costs and controlled performance at the same time. Unfortunately, both Michelin and Bstone had feverish development in 2008. Eventually, Bridgestone developed the super squishy Rossi/Stoner front tire that was probably superior to the Michelins because it enlarged the size of the contact patch at full lean. Pedrosa jumped off of the Michelin ship and Dorna realized their attempts to save the tire war had failed.

So what you are saying in the last paragraph is that what ever Dorna did or dot not do it all failed/would have failed becuase the tires companies (unfortunatly) developed their tires? That's really advanced conspiracy
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regulating or limiting the contact patch would only cause everyone to become the old Stoner/DePuniet. I see doing all that will basically regulate more highsides..
 
GP tires are shrouded in mystery and even the Bstone website is vague.
Yes, specifying a carcass is impossible for the technical director to monitor properly. Profile can be measured and controled.

So what do we know? Rear Bridgestones required MORE load for optimal performance. Based on Nicky and Colin's comments they are also tougher (slower) to turn in (most likely due to a rounder, less tall profile). The specification of slower turn in, by the rounded profile requirement, would make alot of sense if you wanted to lower corner speed.

Problem is, lap times are down. Top speeds are about the same. So, corner speed is up. This leads me to believe that Stones deliver more grip. But why?

IMO the rounder profile REAR now FLEXES more, allowing for a larger contact patch at all leans. It's alot like taking out tire pressure from your bike when riding in the snow.

From Bridgestone:
The tread of a MotoGP tyre is rounded in shape to creat the largest possible contact patch with the road, even when the riders lean their bikes at angles of up to 65 degrees.

A tyres construction is designed to be durable against severe braking and accelerating forces, whilst providing the riders with enough feel to push the tires to their performance limit.


I can't say much about the front tire. However, all the onboard commenty show Dani's front flexing much more than Rossi or Casey in 2008. Guess which guys used the hardest front construction that year? Given the nature of riding, front end feel and rear grip are needed to go fast. You don't get feel from a squishy front. You can't get grip from an unflexible rear.
 
Since I've owned my latest street bike which is 5 years now I have used Michelins PPowers. I found them to be a fairly neutral tire with almost no feedback. Great traction but I could not tell where the edge was. This year I mounted a pair of BT 016's and I'll tell you the difference is just astonishing. There is no limit on the street anyway and they are like 1000% better tires.
 

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