Brno Will the new rules effect the Title outcome

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 5 2009, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>LINK



I agree that their business model was probably the key factor in their demise, but don't think for a second that the government had nothing to do with it. Once these new regualtions from the Obama admin hits it may just be the nail in the coffin.

I think that you missed my point though. "At this difficult time for the industry, and for the economy as a whole, what we need is certainty and consistency, not confusion and chaos" The 990's saw certainty and consistency. Hence a more even playing field and competitive privateer bikes. The 800's have yet to reach that point and are costing the manufacturers millions. This is not a good time to experiment with new rules and regulations. It may just drive the series to teh breaking point.

I find the comparison slightly off. American cars compared to japanese and Europeans would be more like if like Harley were competing in MotoGP with a 45deg twin with iron cast casing, push rods, long stroke 2 500 cc engine and a steel hard-tail framed bike weighing in at 300kg against the 800's of today.



But back to your thing. I doubt your car industry can survive by consistency. Nobody want the suv and trucks anymore. Bankrupt the whole thing and try to build up something new out of it, something that will fit into a new more environmentally friendly world.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 5 2009, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I find the comparison slightly off. American cars compared to japanese and Europeans would be more like if like Harley were competing in MotoGP with a 45deg twin with iron cast casing, push rods, long stroke 2 500 cc engine and a steel hard-tail framed bike weighing in at 300kg against the 800's of today.



But back to your thing. I doubt your car industry can survive by consistency. Nobody want the suv and trucks anymore. Bankrupt the whole thing and try to build up something new out of it, something that will fit into a new more environmentally friendly world.

Your wrong. People do want their trucks and SUV's. You think we all want to be driving smart cars . Exactly what the government would love for us to do. They can't come out and say we all need to be driving mini electric cars, so they regulate the car industry forcing them to make the cars that we don't want. They also manipulate gas prices as well by not allowing drilling and new refineries as well as nuclear power plants. And then they come out with a bogus environmental scam that they should be thrown in jail for. My wife and I had to sell her Ford SUV for a peice of crap Toyota yaris because gas prices were too high. You think we want that yaris over our SUV? Ha-Ha what a joke.

The more you regulate MOTOGP the more creative teams must get. You take away fuel, they spends billions on how to eek out every ouce of power they can get. You regulate engine life and they spend billions on making a more efficient engine. All good things, but I think that the timing is wrong.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 5 2009, 08:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe that's the reason why all the satellite teams are struggling?

No doubt

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 5 2009, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your wrong. People do want their trucks and SUV's. You think we all want to be driving smart cars . Exactly what the government would love for us to do. They can't come out and say we all need to be driving mini electric cars, so they regulate the car industry forcing them to make the cars that we don't want. They also manipulate gas prices as well by not allowing drilling and new refineries as well as nuclear power plants. And then they come out with a bogus environmental scam that they should be thrown in jail for. My wife and I had to sell her Ford SUV for a peice of crap Toyota yaris because gas prices were too high. You think we want that yaris over our SUV? Ha-Ha what a joke.
Well, you got the Yaris, didn't you. What your preferences are doesn't really matter unless you stick by them, but this time the Yaris won and american car industry lost simply because the market were willing to pay a high price for oil.
You may call it manipulating, I call it common sense and about f..ing time you (US) came around.
The way your whole society are built up entirely around cars are quite frankly very scary.
I can understand why so many look the other way and suggest conspiracies and manipulation, because the most likely shortcoming of dino-fuel in a near future paint a picture of a US in total chaos. Sure, Europe will be hit hard as well but the infrastructure is so completely different and should have a chance of adjusting in a way that will be impossible in US

i'd be very poor if it comes this way!

bringing up such a rule midseason is so weak!!!
2010...okay...but not midseason...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 5 2009, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your wrong. People do want their trucks and SUV's. You think we all want to be driving smart cars . Exactly what the government would love for us to do. They can't come out and say we all need to be driving mini electric cars, so they regulate the car industry forcing them to make the cars that we don't want. They also manipulate gas prices as well by not allowing drilling and new refineries as well as nuclear power plants. And then they come out with a bogus environmental scam that they should be thrown in jail for. My wife and I had to sell her Ford SUV for a peice of crap Toyota yaris because gas prices were too high. You think we want that yaris over our SUV? Ha-Ha what a joke.

The more you regulate MOTOGP the more creative teams must get. You take away fuel, they spends billions on how to eek out every ouce of power they can get. You regulate engine life and they spend billions on making a more efficient engine. All good things, but I think that the timing is wrong.
man Sack your right on. I wouldn't put one of my family members in one of those piece of .... Dumbcars. Those things would fold if a bug hit the windshield. My SUV is awesome. We only use it for local trips and such cause of the size of the family. .... those who think that electric cars and this other junk is goin to save the environment. It is a lie. If they wanted all this efficiency they would have had it years ago with some of those old efficient carb designs that got crazy gas milage. It is a shame that we as a nation have become so soft and accepting the lies about the climate. Let us drill, sure we can use electric. I think it all has its place. If you charge your electric car where does that electric come from? How much coal did they burn? If the wind power thing was so awesome how come the kennedy family doesnt want one of those awesome sweet ... hugemongus windmills in kennebunkport? Hmmmmm. I think it is do as I say not as I do. You think your doing your part for the environment but really folks it is all .........

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 5 2009, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, you got the Yaris, didn't you. What your preferences are doesn't really matter unless you stick by them, but this time the Yaris won and american car industry lost simply because the market were willing to pay a high price for oil.
You may call it manipulating, I call it common sense and about f..ing time you (US) came around.
The way your whole society are built up entirely around cars are quite frankly very scary.
I can understand why so many look the other way and suggest conspiracies and manipulation, because the most likely shortcoming of dino-fuel in a near future paint a picture of a US in total chaos. Sure, Europe will be hit hard as well but the infrastructure is so completely different and should have a chance of adjusting in a way that will be impossible in US
YOu don't need dead dinos to make oil. You can use many other sources if you care to look. Plus we in the US don't have to do as the Euros do. I could care less if we shut our borders to all the forigners. I am sick and tired of everyone else slagging on my country but for some reason they want to come here and .... on our parade. We have a different lay of our land as to why we rely so much on cars and if you lived here you would understand better. Plus our roads and highways are different as well. I think it is just a case of misunderstanding and stereotyping of our country and the way we do things. If you came here and lived it might make better sence as to why we use cars the way we do. It is partially due to the distances we have to overcome alot of the time. We need to drill off our shores but these ........ over here wont let us cause of the environment. WhaT A JOKE.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 5 2009, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well, you got the Yaris, didn't you. What your preferences are doesn't really matter unless you stick by them, but this time the Yaris won and american car industry lost simply because the market were willing to pay a high price for oil.
You may call it manipulating, I call it common sense and about f..ing time you (US) came around.
The way your whole society are built up entirely around cars are quite frankly very scary.
I can understand why so many look the other way and suggest conspiracies and manipulation, because the most likely shortcoming of dino-fuel in a near future paint a picture of a US in total chaos. Sure, Europe will be hit hard as well but the infrastructure is so completely different and should have a chance of adjusting in a way that will be impossible in US

It is speculated that we have an abundance of oil right here on our own soil, possibly even more than the middle east yet, for some dumb reason we can't go after it. We would rather rely on foreign oil and throw our money into some foreign dictators wealth pile. I have never heard the contrary. I'm sure the policticians will be feeding us the lie that the oil isn't there soon enough. But we can make a nuclear powerplant or 10. .... them. Don't worry the apologists, environmentalists, and special interest groups are on their high and mighty right now and are trying to drive us back but once we have the right people in place they will allow the people the freedoms to progress.

I got my yaris cause I was forced into making a ...... decision. Which should have never been. The thing is a POS.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 6 2009, 12:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is speculated that we have an abundance of oil right here on our own soil, possibly even more than the middle east yet, for some dumb reason we can't go after it. We would rather rely on foreign oil and throw our money into some foreign dictators wealth pile. I have never heard the contrary. I'm sure the policticians will be feeding us the lie that the oil isn't there soon enough. But we can make a nuclear powerplant or 10. .... them. Don't worry the apologists, environmentalists, and special interest groups are on their high and mighty right now and are trying to drive us back but once we have the right people in place they will allow the people the freedoms to progress.

I got my yaris cause I was forced into making a ...... decision. Which should have never been. The thing is a POS.
When you say "yaris" surly you dont mean one of these fagmobiles ?

7786:07_yaris_f3q_a.jpg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 6 2009, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>YOu don't need dead dinos to make oil. You can use many other sources if you care to look. Plus we in the US don't have to do as the Euros do. I could care less if we shut our borders to all the forigners. I am sick and tired of everyone else slagging on my country but for some reason they want to come here and .... on our parade. We have a different lay of our land as to why we rely so much on cars and if you lived here you would understand better. Plus our roads and highways are different as well. I think it is just a case of misunderstanding and stereotyping of our country and the way we do things. If you came here and lived it might make better sence as to why we use cars the way we do. It is partially due to the distances we have to overcome alot of the time. We need to drill off our shores but these ........ over here wont let us cause of the environment. WhaT A JOKE.

No, you don't need only dinos but to replace it with anything else is a lengthy process and it will have influence on food supply and environment as well.
If you really shut down your borders you would be completely, well and thoroughly ...... within weeks. That train left about a 100 years ago. If you want to follow North Korea, be my guest, but it would be a decision that would make Bush Jr look like a genius. So just go ahead, lock it up.
I have in fact stayed in US for shorter periods so I do understand quite well why you use the cars the way you do, and that is in fact exactly what's scary. It's not about slagging you it's just an outsiders observation to just how different it is and how much you have come to depend on the car. I depend on cars on a daily basis and that also scare me. Back home I've put just another argument on my long list of why we should move closer to the city: If the .... hits the fan it will cost us 10 times to get our ..... around in cars in just a few years. If so, I want to live near the rail road and not 30miles into the countryside with two buses a day.
I have that option, you don't and that should really scare you.

You just kicked out the most oil and energy fiendly president you'll ever see in your life time, and if he couldn't start offshore drilling no one can. But seriously, are there much to get there anyway?
I thought all possibilities were well explored and mapped.

Babel, Ironically sitting on a ship that maintain and improve under water production wells.

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%<span style="font-family:ArialThat’s why we should all use freakening great BIKES man! No worries about petrol consumption compared to even the smallest cars, bloody fast, not as much traffic, less smog pollution… There should be a law for it… MotoGP rules over crappy F1 even in this!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Aug 6 2009, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, you don't need only dinos but to replace it with anything else is a lengthy process and it will have influence on food supply and environment as well.
If you really shut down your borders you would be completely, well and thoroughly ...... within weeks. That train left about a 100 years ago. If you want to follow North Korea, be my guest, but it would be a decision that would make Bush Jr look like a genius. So just go ahead, lock it up.
I have in fact stayed in US for shorter periods so I do understand quite well why you use the cars the way you do, and that is in fact exactly what's scary. It's not about slagging you it's just an outsiders observation to just how different it is and how much you have come to depend on the car. I depend on cars on a daily basis and that also scare me. Back home I've put just another argument on my long list of why we should move closer to the city: If the .... hits the fan it will cost us 10 times to get our ..... around in cars in just a few years. If so, I want to live near the rail road and not 30miles into the countryside with two buses a day.
I have that option, you don't and that should really scare you.

You just kicked out the most oil and energy fiendly president you'll ever see in your life time, and if he couldn't start offshore drilling no one can. But seriously, are there much to get there anyway?
I thought all possibilities were well explored and mapped.

Babel, Ironically sitting on a ship that maintain and improve under water production wells.
First of all I didn't kick anyone out and let this douschebag in. The US is much more spread out instead of the Euros type of living where your roads are super thin. So you dudes need those types of cars. I really don't care if we have them I just don't want to be forced into having to have one, either cause the ....... powers that be won't drill or whatever. It is ........ how we have our borders so wide open and we need to do something about this. How do I know? Well a very good friend of mine is a US customs agent/US Marshall/Border patrol/terrorist task force and he agrees that something really needs to be done. WE in the US don't need any more foringers coming over here and setting up shop be it legal or illegal. They need to fix their own countries and stop messing up mine. I am sick and tired of the weak, politically correct limpwristers that undermine what set this country up in the first place. Some may agree and some may not. At least right now this is still able to be done in the US. I think more people should be riding motorcycles but it should be a choice just like almost everything else in the US. One thing about it that would be huge is that more people would be aware of bikes and be more inclined to be careful around them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 5 2009, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When you say "yaris" surly you dont mean one of these fagmobiles ?

7786:07_yaris_f3q_a.jpg]

That's the hatchback version
We have the sedan, isn't much better though


If the loonies had their way we would all be driving these POSs



I have a Toyota PreRunner that gets 20 MPG's

Back on topic. It seems that anytime that Dorna need some press and attention they release the rules. MOTOGP has never been more talked about each and everytime the rules have been released. I don't know whether its a good thing but they are in the news and getting attention. If they were to keep it the same it would be business as usual and people wouldn't have anything to talk about and lose interest in these long ....... breaks that they take. Just my opinion but no thriving sport in america takes as long between rounds during the season. Maybe i'm just being selfish .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 5 2009, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>LINK



I agree that their business model was probably the key factor in their demise, but don't think for a second that the government had nothing to do with it. Once these new regualtions from the Obama admin hits it may just be the nail in the coffin.

I think that you missed my point though. "At this difficult time for the industry, and for the economy as a whole, what we need is certainty and consistency, not confusion and chaos" The 990's saw certainty and consistency. Hence a more even playing field and competitive privateer bikes. The 800's have yet to reach that point and are costing the manufacturers millions. This is not a good time to experiment with new rules and regulations. It may just drive the series to teh breaking point.
Well said! I guess many people here agree to that.
The new rules that puts preassure on the factories is going to make it more uneven.Maaaybe one more satellite team in the future or something,but also maybe one less factory team.Someone like BMW or APRILLIA must be scared silly to even try to enter.With the 990s the power output is way too much for the tires i guess,if they go back.So,do that and get some kind of control ecu or restrictions.That must even things out as i see it.Then they compete in building the best chassie and to put it all together in the best way more or less.Kind of like Moto 2 but with their own engines.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 7 2009, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WE in the US don't need any more foringers coming over here and setting up shop be it legal or illegal. They need to fix their own countries and stop messing up mine. I am sick and tired of the weak, politically correct limpwristers that undermine what set this country up in the first place.
Correct me if I'm wrong Rock but you're not an indigenous american are you? What "set [your] country up in the first place" was foreigners, no?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Aug 6 2009, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Correct me if I'm wrong Rock but you're not an indigenous american are you? What "set [your] country up in the first place" was foreigners, no?

With our welfare state the way it is, it's unsustainable to allow illegals in to the country.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Aug 7 2009, 05:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Correct me if I'm wrong Rock but you're not an indigenous american are you? What "set [your] country up in the first place" was foreigners, no?
Yes many many years ago. I wasn't referring to people in that statement rather principles that have been all but forgotten. It is to full of our problems that we don't need extra people coming here making it worse. I don't like the fact that we as a country spend more money on people coming here without a damn thing than any other country in the world. It is time that we stop letting those who think the streets are paved with gold in with their hands out we just can't do it anymore. Go dig somewhere else. It is harder for me who is american to get money from the govt. to start a business than a forigner. That is ......... WE have people here that need to get help before we as a nation go out there and try to help all these others out. Hey there are other countries but they don't do as much as we do. I am just saying it is time we stop with the handouts to the worlds poor. We have our own.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Aug 7 2009, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes many many years ago. I wasn't referring to people in that statement rather principles that have been all but forgotten. It is to full of our problems that we don't need extra people coming here making it worse. I don't like the fact that we as a country spend more money on people coming here without a damn thing than any other country in the world. It is time that we stop letting those who think the streets are paved with gold in with their hands out we just can't do it anymore. Go dig somewhere else. It is harder for me who is american to get money from the govt. to start a business than a forigner. That is ......... WE have people here that need to get help before we as a nation go out there and try to help all these others out. Hey there are other countries but they don't do as much as we do. I am just saying it is time we stop with the handouts to the worlds poor. We have our own.

Must make you feel good that you already rank near the bottom when it comes to "hadout"s" pr capita.

Haven’t really read this thread in detail, (the topic title didn't really interest me) but I see it has allot of post, so I figured something must be off topic. I saw a few picture of cars and something about energy, and immigrants ad how they are ruining the nation. Hahaha. BTW, Babel, its not our car culture that is ruining anything, its the fact that domestic car companies cannot compete with countries that don't pay their workers fair wages and health care benefits. Those countries also restrict cars from entering but we don't return the favor with high import tariffs. The workers of Asian countries look more like an organized labor camp than mere citizens. The quality of the cars are about the same today, it’s the perception that is different. Oh, and if you're gonna say anything about fuel economy, the American companies make plenty of economic cars. But have you seen the latest Toyota full size truck? Its a 5.7 liter engine, bigger that the domestics. What does that tell you? The American car companies have not failed because they make a product inferior or not in demand, they struggle because trade laws have rewarded the foreign company while penalized the domestic. That is the answer, period. Have the imports start paying a middle class wage, factor in private healthcare, and attach a tariff (as they do to our vehicles) and you would have never seen their market share grow out of proportion. Babel, your tone is quick to cast blame on anything American, but if you dig a little deeper, you will see that its quite a different story.

Also, Babel, if you want to know why some people think the way they do, go on youtube, find a few clips of this guy named Hannity from Fox news. You’ll why certain people are usually on the wrong side of every human issue. One of which are immigrants. They usually don’t like foreigners because the ‘machine’ tells them they are to blame for everything. It helps their cause, why, you see it helps deflect attention for all the laws and leadership that fail to advocate for the middle class man, of which they are members. They act like they are barons when they are nothing more than just ‘Joes-like the unlicensed plummer’. From the sounds of it, you would think foreigners don't come to work, the type of labor that makes the high standard of living possible.