Brno Will the new rules effect the Title outcome

When the 2009 MotoGP World Championship 'restarts' after the summer break at Brno on August 14-16, a major new rule change will come into effect.

For the final seven rounds of the season, each rider will be restricted to five engine changes, with any additional changes punishable by a ten point penalty.

personally it will be a total fook up if after all the racing this year the - 10 points rule effects the championship title or even to top 3.order

its very close at the top this year let them race it out this year.then bring in some rule changes if need be ?.but not half way through the season

Thoughts

Every knee jerk rule bought in by dorna is ill thought out and will result in .... ups.

So if honda hrc start getting there butts kicked by say gresini, will hrc start supplying gresini with fragile engines so they get docked points meaning there's no championshipo threat to hrc ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Aug 4 2009, 04:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When the 2009 MotoGP World Championship 'restarts' after the summer break at Brno on August 14-16, a major new rule change will come into effect.

For the final seven rounds of the season, each rider will be restricted to five engine changes, with any additional changes punishable by a ten point penalty.

personally it will be a total fook up if after all the racing this year the - 10 points rule effects the championship title or even to top 3.order

its very close at the top this year let them race it out this year.then bring in some rule changes if need be ?.but not half way through the season

Thoughts

Regulations I've seen suggest only 5 engines, but unlimited changes.
Also, I never saw an exact penalty.
Expect A LOT of engine changes.

What I wonder about is how this will pan out as some rider damage their engines in crashes, especially as the season is coming to an end.
Wouldn't it be fun if we had a couple of riders with points penalties on the start line at valencia and a couple of riders injured and not starting due to oil spill after engine blow ups in training?

I expect the first couple of engines to complete races to run in practice until there's nothing left of them. If they avoid failure out on track I would consider that more out of luck than anything else.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pigeon @ Aug 4 2009, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When the 2009 MotoGP World Championship 'restarts' after the summer break at Brno on August 14-16, a major new rule change will come into effect.

For the final seven rounds of the season, each rider will be restricted to five engine changes, with any additional changes punishable by a ten point penalty.

personally it will be a total fook up if after all the racing this year the - 10 points rule effects the championship title or even to top 3.order

its very close at the top this year let them race it out this year.then bring in some rule changes if need be ?.but not half way through the season

Thoughts

Agreed mate,this rule should be for the 2010 season.It just makes things a little complicated for 09 on a small grid as it is.

The more rules they set… the more stupid Dorna becomes… I wonder which part from 'Top Prototypes' Dorna does not understand… I would guess it's 'Prototypes' because it is a little confusing word!

So do teams get a billion 'New' parts for those 5 engines, or how is that going to work?

As long as teams keep the Serial, is it the same engine?

I know, I am being silly, but not more than Dorna!!!

its a bit long winded all this .....security seals etc etc but this is the basics of the engine rule

the new rule on engine limits will begin from the forthcoming Czech Republic Grand Prix, at Brno on August 16.

The new rules are designed to limit maintenance and running costs through longer engine life, with a points penalty for any extra engine changes.

The full technical regulations for the new ‘Engine Durability’ rule are as follows:

1.) In the MotoGP class the number of engines available for use by each rider is limited. For the 2009 season a maximum of 5 engines may be used by each rider for the final 7 scheduled races of the season, that is from and including the Czech Grand Prix until the end of the season. Should a rider be replaced for any reason, the replacement rider will be deemed to be the original rider for purposes of engine allocation.

2.) The engines available for the exclusive use of each rider must be marked and sealed by the Technical Director prior to first use. It is the Team’s obligation to register any new engine with the Technical Director prior to use. Once registered and used for the first time, engines may not be swapped between riders, even within the same team. A new engine is deemed to be used when the motorcycle with that engine crosses the transponder timing point at the pitlane exit.

3.) The engines will be sealed by means of wiring and identification tabs, so that:
a. the timing system is not accessible (e.g. the head cover must be wired to the cylinder head)
b. the timing driving system is not accessible (e.g. the geartrain/chain cover is wired so that it cannot be removed),

c. the cylinder head and the cylinders block (if any) cannot be removed from the engine (e.g. the cylinder head is wired to the cylinders block and the cylinders block is wired to the engine crankcase),
d. the crankcase cannot be opened (e.g. the crankcase halves are wired together).
All the parts that are accessible without removing the sealing wiring can be replaced. Breaking or removing the sealing wiring without supervision by the Technical Director will be deemed to be “engine rebuilding” and engines with broken or missing security seals will be treated as a new engine in the allocation.

4.) Should a competitor, for any reason (e.g. mechanical failure, crash, major damage, etc.) require the use of another engine above their allocation, the Technical Director must be informed before the new engine is used, and Race Direction will apply the appropriate penalty.
The damaged engine will be removed from the allocation and if it is used again, it will be treated as a new engine with the appropriate penalty.

5.) There is no limit to the number of times a sealed, allocated engine can be fitted to and used in a motorcycle, provided the security seal is not broken or removed. Replacing an engine with another sealed engine (new or used) from the rider’s allocation is allowed with no penalty.

6.) To prevent the running of a used, allocated engine outside of MotoGP events, all allocated engines will have security seals placed over either exhaust or inlet ports (on at least one cylinder bank, in the case of V-type engines) before leaving the circuit. Teams wishing to re-use such an allocated and sealed engine must request the Technical Director to remove the security seals. If the Technical Director or his staff find that the security seals are not intact, the engine will be deemed to be a new engine in the allocation, with the appropriate penalty.

Earlier this year, the Grand Prix Commission announced that “The penalty for using an unauthorized engine will be a deduction of 10 points from… the Championship ranking of the rider concerned”.

all sounds bollocks to me and could fook this years championship up..?

Another thing to consider: each rider has 2 bikes, so running low on engines could also mean a rider is stuck with only one bike to work with. Even if we don't have someone taking a points hit, that could make setup a bit more difficult and make dealing with something like a minor lowside in practice more problematic without a suitable spare to turn to.

These MotoGP motors are pretty much bullet proof. Only reason they would require changing them is because they wear out a bit after a race and lose slight horsepower, or the rider crashing the bike and damaging the motor. Other than that I don't see if it's going to play any major role in the outcome of the championship.

When was the last time a motor blew up anyways? Anyone know?

Only way to save the sport right now is to cut cost. Cutting cost is not the easiest thing to do and requires some creativeness. But this IMO is completely ......... Dorna need to look at what is making these bike super expensive in the first place.

Dorna lowered the displacement and lowered the alloted amount of fuel that a bike can have. This turned into costlier developement and an electronic boom that is very expensive

Now they want to increase engine efficiency and lower the fuel even more . This means hours more for developement. Costlier parts, electronics, etc. I think this is going to completely backfire in thier face. Not to mention that if a rider wants to continue after he blew up all his engines then he must take a 10 point deficit. Not only that but it makes it almost impossible for a new company to join the series and compete

This is exactly what happened to our car companies over here. The governemt over regulated the vehicles, demanding that they get this fuel mileage with this amount of safety, etc. The car companies had to spend billions on research and development to deliver.

Increase fuel, increase displacement, fixed ecu, top rpm limit and you have yourself a thriving series.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Aug 4 2009, 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>These MotoGP motors are pretty much bullet proof. Only reason they would require changing them is because they wear out a bit after a race and lose slight horsepower, or the rider crashing the bike and damaging the motor. Other than that I don't see if it's going to play any major role in the outcome of the championship.

When was the last time a motor blew up anyways? Anyone know?
actually engines tend to make more power when there wearing. i ran the fastest time i had ever run on my drag bike just before it went bang, that engine was on its 3rd season.

I wonder if Hayate has 5 engines ????
These rules will further exclude privateer and satelite teams from any chance of being competative.

Unless there is some unusual event (like choosing wet weather tyres), there are only 4 riders and 3 teams with any chance of winning a race. This is what needs to be addressed.
Why would any aspiring team come in to MotoGP on that basis.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nuts @ Aug 4 2009, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Unless there is some unusual event (like choosing wet weather tyres), there are only 4 riders and 3 teams with any chance of winning a race. This is what needs to be addressed.
Why would any aspiring team come in to MotoGP on that basis.
I'd say "like a wet race" rather than just focusing on something like a tire gamble, particularly after what happened last time out. Tricky conditions can cause all sorts of chaos, even with (almost) everyone on the same tires. Your general point is spot-on, of course.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (chopperman @ Aug 4 2009, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>actually engines tend to make more power when there wearing. i ran the fastest time i had ever run on my drag bike just before it went bang, that engine was on its 3rd season.

You got it Roger. They just get faster AND more dangerous. It's not wear that take out these machines but material fatigue that result in sudden breakdown, and it can get really ugly.

They will have to change the format from 'Prototype' racing to 'What we say you can have as long as its expensive!' Surely now Sat teams will struggle to further develop engine performance/durability with the full-factory boys...

I guess it's safe to say a team with an underpowered motor is going to be screwed for the rest of the season...great.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Aug 4 2009, 08:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess it's safe to say a team with an underpowered motor is going to be screwed for the rest of the season...great.

Suzi have a good motor. They just can't get the electronics figured out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Aug 5 2009, 02:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is exactly what happened to our car companies over here. The governemt over regulated the vehicles, demanding that they get this fuel mileage with this amount of safety, etc. The car companies had to spend billions on research and development to deliver.
Yeah that's what ...... up the US car industry, Sacky... Toyota, Honda, BMW, Merc, Nissan... those regs you refer to didn't apply to, or affect, the R&D costs for any other manufacturer other than GM, Ford and Chrysler... LOL

All sounds like another load of Dorna bollocks really.

We all understand that this is an expensive game and that cutting costs may be necessary, but some of the changes implemented have not had that effect. The reduction in engine capacity appears have brought along the costly development and fitment of more advanced electronics. I am not saying this would not have also happened to the 990's, but at least the manufacturers would only be developing electronics.
Another point is that it can sometimes be more expensive to actually tune power out of an engine in order to meet the fuel requirements.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Willski @ Aug 4 2009, 11:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>All sounds like another load of Dorna bollocks really.

We all understand that this is an expensive game and that cutting costs may be necessary, but some of the changes implemented have not had that effect. The reduction in engine capacity appears have brought along the costly development and fitment of more advanced electronics. I am not saying this would not have also happened to the 990's, but at least the manufacturers would only be developing electronics.
Another point is that it can sometimes be more expensive to actually tune power out of an engine in order to meet the fuel requirements.


Maybe that's the reason why all the satellite teams are struggling?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Aug 4 2009, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah that's what ...... up the US car industry, Sacky... Toyota, Honda, BMW, Merc, Nissan... those regs you refer to didn't apply to, or affect, the R&D costs for any other manufacturer other than GM, Ford and Chrysler... LOL


LINK

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>The auto industry is still stonewalling on cooperating with the Obama Administration on regulating greenhouse gases from tailpipes. Earlier this week, President Obama signed an executive order directing the Environmental Protection Agency to reconsider its Bush-era refusal to grant California a waiver to impose such regulations. New EPA head Lisa Jackson says she's for it, and the agency will almost certainly endorse the waiver this time around, probably in April or May. The industry has said many times in the last 30 years that new environmental and safety technology, from airbags to the catalytic converter, would send America's automakers to their graves. True to form, Charles Territo of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers said to NPR this week that the California regulations will spell disaster. "At this difficult time for the industry, and for the economy as a whole, what we need is certainty and consistency, not confusion and chaos," he said. In the New York Times, David E. Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, said the California regulations, if enacted immediately, "would basically kill the industry." It will undoubtedly be tough for them in some ways, but narrowing their product lines to SUVs and trucks didn't exatly leave them in good health. Business as usual is what got them asking the government for bailouts. I recorded an audio commentary on this situation for Sea Change Radio, and you can

I agree that their business model was probably the key factor in their demise, but don't think for a second that the government had nothing to do with it. Once these new regualtions from the Obama admin hits it may just be the nail in the coffin.

I think that you missed my point though. "At this difficult time for the industry, and for the economy as a whole, what we need is certainty and consistency, not confusion and chaos" The 990's saw certainty and consistency. Hence a more even playing field and competitive privateer bikes. The 800's have yet to reach that point and are costing the manufacturers millions. This is not a good time to experiment with new rules and regulations. It may just drive the series to teh breaking point.