BMW won’t come to MotoGP because “No Contest”?

Cutter · Aug 25, 2020

General consensus seems to be that BMW doesn’t want to enter the MotoGP and bring about the extra R&D costs because they are already so far ahead of the game, whatever HP4 engine they bring to the table would smoke Ducati and Honda. Since BMW isn’t in the MotoGP, I’m a Ducati fan. Do you think BMW would ever have a change of heart in the coming years and join the MotoGP?

Bern1 · Aug 25, 2020

Hmm, if I was running a company and knew I had the goods to smoke the established front runners I think I’d do it, especially if I was a sponsor.

I think all the factories have dialed back their involvement in MotoGP, the economics dictate it. I believe sales are way down in the States for starters.

Would love to see BMW and others join the fray. Good on KTM

Bern1 · Aug 25, 2020

Hmm, if I was running a company and knew I had the goods to smoke the established front runners I think I’d do it, especially if I was a sponsor.

I think all the factories have dialed back their involvement in MotoGP, the economics dictate it. I believe sales are way down in the States for starters.

Would love to see BMW and others join the fray. Good on KTM

Barbedwirebikerr · Aug 25, 2020

Cutter said:
General consensus seems to be that BMW doesn’t want to enter the MotoGP and bring about the extra R&D costs because they are already so far ahead of the game, whatever HP4 engine they bring to the table would smoke Ducati and Honda. Since BMW isn’t in the MotoGP, I’m a Ducati fan. Do you think BMW would ever have a change of heart in the coming years and join the MotoGP?

.

Keshav · Aug 25, 2020

Cutter said:
General consensus seems to be that BMW doesn’t want to enter the MotoGP and bring about the extra R&D costs because they are already so far ahead of the game, whatever HP4 engine they bring to the table would smoke Ducati and Honda. Since BMW isn’t in the MotoGP, I’m a Ducati fan. Do you think BMW would ever have a change of heart in the coming years and join the MotoGP?

Only thing they're smoking is some really ...... weed. Seriously, I doubt very much BMW ever made any such a statement to the press. Why would they? It'd only open them up to ridicule. My guess, some dipshit, no ethics hack posing as a "journalist" wrote that nonsense as click-bait.

p4p1 · Aug 25, 2020

From what I understand BMW tipped their toes into MotoGP under the CRT rules. Nothing good came of it for BMW, they would take years to get competitive.

BarryMachine · Aug 25, 2020

Cutter said:
General consensus seems to be that BMW doesn’t want to enter the MotoGP and bring about the extra R&D costs because they are already so far ahead of the game, whatever HP4 engine they bring to the table would smoke Ducati and Honda. Since BMW isn’t in the MotoGP, I’m a Ducati fan. Do you think BMW would ever have a change of heart in the coming years and join the MotoGP?

....

.....

WTF!!!!?????

michaelm · Aug 26, 2020

p4p1 said:
From what I understand BMW tipped their toes into MotoGP under the CRT rules. Nothing good came of it for BMW, they would take years to get competitive.

Yes. The series has been a fuel economy formula since 2006, I think engine technology would remain not directly transferable despite the control ECU.

evo9 · Aug 26, 2020

Cutter said:
General consensus seems to be that BMW doesn’t want to enter the MotoGP and bring about the extra R&D costs because they are already so far ahead of the game, whatever HP4 engine they bring to the table would smoke Ducati and Honda. Since BMW isn’t in the MotoGP, I’m a Ducati fan. Do you think BMW would ever have a change of heart in the coming years and join the MotoGP?

They could never hack it in F1. Who would believe they can take on Honda who have won more than one F1 Championship. Entering to MotoGp would be a baptism of fire for them.

michaelm · Aug 26, 2020

evo9 said:
They could never hack it in F1. Who would believe they can take on Honda who have won more than one F1 Championship. Entering to MotoGp would be a baptism of fire for them.

They actually did have success in the 1.5 liter turbo F1 era, winning a drivers’ title as an engine supplier, reputedly supplying the most powerful F1 engine of all time particularly in qualifying trim.

Aw Mang · Aug 26, 2020

^^ I believe their engine produced just over 1000 hp in qualifying but not for the races though.

Segfault · Aug 27, 2020

The energy in gasoline is constant. To burn it and get more horsepower than competition you need to increase the efficiency of internal combustion engine. Sure, you can get a big number of horsepower with unlimited fuel available. During MotoGP race the fuel amount is limited. The efficiency of gasoline engine was under 40% for a long time (diesel is a little better). Increasing efficiency is not a walk in the park, every 0.1% comes with huge research expenses. At some point there will be nothing one can do to increase the efficiency. I doubt the gasoline engine ever will go better than 50%. Thus, such a hypothetical 1000 HP engine is plain useless, money spent in wrong direction.

michaelm · Aug 27, 2020

Segfault said:
The energy in gasoline is constant. To burn it and get more horsepower than competition you need to increase the efficiency of internal combustion engine. Sure, you can get a big number of horsepower with unlimited fuel available. During MotoGP race the fuel amount is limited. The efficiency of gasoline engine was under 40% for a long time (diesel is a little better). Increasing efficiency is not a walk in the park, every 0.1% comes with huge research expenses. At some point there will be nothing one can do to increase the efficiency. I doubt the gasoline engine ever will go better than 50%. Thus, such a hypothetical 1000 HP engine is plain useless, money spent in wrong direction.

Absolutely, that was then though when power was the goal. My only point was that they did once build a winning F1 engine, for Bernie actually, the owner of the Brabham BMW team in 1983. Plus ca change. Bernie was considered one of the good guys then, leading the fight against the evil Ballestre.

Segfault · Aug 27, 2020

They got 1500 BHP out of a 1500 cc turbocharged F1 engine, for qualification. The lifespan of an F1 engine in "qualification mode" was counted in minutes. The fuel wasn't regular gasoline, the recipe was secret for every team. Nothing like this has place in MotoGP where even 250 BHP engine is limited in first 4 gears by wheelie control. Adding 700 more horsepower would add very little, definitely not worth the spending and R&D.

Keshav · Aug 27, 2020

There's a video that used to get posted here from time to time maybe 15 years ago. I think it was The Cube, maybe from Aprilia, that made insane horsepower, which the techs were completely incapable of taming in any useful way. Really funny to watch.

michaelm · Aug 27, 2020

Keshav said:
There's a video that used to get posted here from time to time maybe 15 years ago. I think it was The Cube, maybe from Aprilia, that made insane horsepower, which the techs were completely incapable of taming in any useful way. Really funny to watch.

Yes, the Aprilia Cube, with an engine developed by Cosworth. They signed Colin Edwards iirc. Not only was the thing unrideable, he had other adventures such as the engine catching on fire.

I think BMW make good road cars, but have never owned one and never will, I actually have a Honda, a Civic Type R currently. There is no reason they would get to the front any quicker than KTM in motogp though imo, and KTM had a strong history in the other GP classes and in bike racing in general. I believe that is one reason they will never participate, I consider it likely they would consider even circulating in the low mid pack while they developed their bike/got up to speed damaging to their prestige. It is cool imo that something somewhat based on a fairly humble 1500 cc 4 cylinder road car engine was the most powerful F1 engine ever, dead end though that technology was for F1.

birdman · Aug 28, 2020

Kawasaki are multiple winners of WSB. How about BMW, have they even won once, let alone Motogp.

I had confidence in KTM making it in motogp and sure, Pedrosa was the last piece of the puzzle, rather than the steel trellis frame.

gekko1ro · Aug 28, 2020

birdman said:
Kawasaki are multiple winners of WSB. How about BMW, have they even won once, let alone Motogp.

I had confidence in KTM making it in motogp and sure, Pedrosa was the last piece of the puzzle, rather than the steel trellis frame.

They won multiple times in the Superstock 1000 World championship, with bikes much closer to what is available to public in motor shops. Let`s not forget that the superbikes in WSBK are far away from stock, although in later years Dorna has imposed rules to level the field in WSBK, too.

Keshav · Aug 28, 2020

gekko1ro said:
They won multiple times in the Superstock 1000 World championship, with bikes much closer to what is available to public in motor shops. Let`s not forget that the superbikes in WSBK are far away from stock, although in later years Dorna has imposed rules to level the field in WSBK, too.

Superstock + MotoGp = Apples and Oranges. MotoGp is a MUCH steeper, not to mention much costlier, learning curve. If that were not the case Kawasaki would have jumped back into the fray years ago.

Hollywood · Aug 31, 2020

BMW can build a decent street bike, but prototype racing is very different. I think their best option would be to start in Moto2, but even then I dont think it would be cost effective.

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