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Bike electronics set to be restricted

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Bike electronics set to be restricted

By Michele Lostia and Matt Beer Wednesday, November 19th 2008, 09:53 GMT


Carmelo Ezpeleta, head of MotoGP commercial rights-holder Dorna, has hinted that the next major regulation change will be to decrease the importance of rider aid electronics in the championship.

MotoGP is introducing a single tyre supplier next year in a bid to reduce speeds and improve the racing, but many riders have also called for limitations on electronics, as they believe systems like traction control are harming the spectacle and making the MotoGP machines too easy to handle.

Although Ezpeleta warned that there would be no changes in the short-term, he confirmed that rider aids were the next topic on the agenda now that the tyre regulations were fixed.

"We need to get down to discuss it, as it's been done in every motor racing series," he told Motosprint.

"I've asked the manufacturers to look for a solution, to start talking, but we won't see anything in 2009. We'll need more time.

"However, regulating electronics will be the next step."

He denied that the current regulations had made recent seasons less exciting, though, and insisted that the 2008 battles between Valentino Rossi, Casey Stoner and Dani Pedrosa had been an excellent advert for MotoGP.

"2008 has been a great championship: Valentino, Casey and Dani did incredible things," said Ezpeleta.

"It must not be thought that Valentino won easily, he made incredible efforts and he won thanks to his genius. And he has shown his genius to the entire world, so this is a spectacle of the highest level. You only need to remember the Laguna Seca race...

"This was a season where Valentino's strategy counted a lot, and he won because he put Stoner under pressure. And if we add to this Pedrosa, who until mid-season was ahead, the level this year was extremely high. So the title for us has extraordinary value."

Ezpeleta is also confident that the Bridgestone control tyres will improve the racing next year, especially after the successful first tests of the new rubber at Valencia earlier this month.

"Looks like the control tyre is becoming less scary now," he said.

"I've spoken to the riders, and they've all told me they're satisfied. I really think everything will be fine.

"I have lots of confidence in the control tyre, also in order to see the riders closer to each other and to see races with more overtaking.

"So I expect the control tyre not only to reduce costs, but also to improve the spectacle."

He also confirmed that the compounds used in the Valencia test would be retained for 2009.

"If there should be conditions where we need to make some adjustments, then we'll do them for sure, but in general the regulation is the one experimented at Valencia," Ezpeleta said.
 
This actually makes the future of MotoGP seem pretty light. Let's see what happens when it happens. Hopefully next year will rule anyway.
 
The current bikes in their present states of tune would be impossible to ride without T/C.
To extract 230+bhp from a 800cc motor would make the motor so peaky with a razor thin powerband.

I own an RG500 with various barrels in different states of tune. One produces 119bhp@11940rpm with no power till 8300(39bhp@8000rpm) and another set of barrels produce 92bhp@10650rpm(63bhp@8000) and on track days although the more powerful motor feels much faster(and sounds fabulous) it produces much slower lap times on track days.

I wonder how much the Duc would have to be "detuned" to make it ridable without electronic aids. Watching the TV coverage Stoner has full throttle before the bike is upright if I even thought of doing that I would be high sided into the seating area!!

Althogh I think Yamaha would have bigger problems due to the inline four configuration being more difficult to produce torque than the V configuration.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lckwik350 @ Dec 7 2008, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The current bikes in their present states of tune would be impossible to ride without T/C.
To extract 230+bhp from a 800cc motor would make the motor so peaky with a razor thin powerband.
Well, it's not about removing electronics all together. It's not TC that make the bikes drivable, but mapping.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I own an RG500 with various barrels in different states of tune. One produces 119bhp@11940rpm with no power till 8300(39bhp@8000rpm) and another set of barrels produce 92bhp@10650rpm(63bhp@8000) and on track days although the more powerful motor feels much faster(and sounds fabulous) it produces much slower lap times on track days.
Sure, and allthough driveability has been the mantra the last decade, but your RG500 have less in common with todays 800's than mine Aprilia RS250 has in common with them, so what's the relevance?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>I wonder how much the Duc would have to be "detuned" to make it ridable without electronic aids. Watching the TV coverage Stoner has full throttle before the bike is upright if I even thought of doing that I would be high sided into the seating area!!
That will depend a lot on how clever they can map the engine.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Althogh I think Yamaha would have bigger problems due to the inline four configuration being more difficult to produce torque than the V configuration.
Well, yamaha has been the ones with driveability as the first priority and seems to have succeeded.
 
Doesn't it seem like the 990s have to be coming back?

Dorna has cut fuel, reduced displacement, raised the minimum weight, and instituted a control tire in a bid to slow the bikes down. The electronics have overcome all of those attempts to reduce speeds.

If they get rid of the electronics without eliminating a few of the previous changes, performance will fall very steeply.

What is the point of reducing the electronics? So the sport can be slower than WSBK?

No. This only makes sense if the 990s or significantly more fuel are on the way.

BTW does anyone remember last year when the bikes would routinely run out of fuel on the cool down lap? This year they do wheelies and burnouts. Remember Rossi at Motegi? I think he did 2 big burnouts, a few wheelies, then he parked his bike for 5 minutes before getting back on and doing a few more wheelies into victory lane.

I'm not suggesting conspiracy, but I do think the 1 way valve they made the manufacturers install on the hose leading to the catch tank perhaps becomes 2 way once the bikes have crossed the finish line.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Dec 8 2008, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>BTW does anyone remember last year when the bikes would routinely run out of fuel on the cool down lap? This year they do wheelies and burnouts. Remember Rossi at Motegi? I think he did 2 big burnouts, a few wheelies, then he parked his bike for 5 minutes before getting back on and doing a few more wheelies into victory lane.

I'm not suggesting conspiracy, but I do think the 1 way valve they made the manufacturers install on the hose leading to the catch tank perhaps becomes 2 way once the bikes have crossed the finish line.

We sure remember Hayden at Assen too.
You sure don't have to make conspiracies for your logic to fall through
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Dec 8 2008, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We sure remember Hayden at Assen too.
You sure don't have to make conspiracies for your logic to fall through
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So what you are saying is that they didn't have fuel problems and run out on the cool down laps in 07 and they arn't popping weelies and doing burnouts now 08?

You numbnutts
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Honda was going through the same teething problem in 08 that all the other manufacturers decided to go thorugh in 07. It takes a few races to figure out the mapping I guess. I can't remember which race Assen was since Hayden started riding pneumo but it was an early one
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Dec 8 2008, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We sure remember Hayden at Assen too.
You sure don't have to make conspiracies for your logic to fall through
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English is not your native language so I'll cut you a break.

The one way valve becomes a two way valve after they cross the finish line so they can wheelie and show off for the crowd. IT WOULD HAVE NO EFFECT ON THE RACING, ONLY ON THE SHOW.

I suspect Hayden could actually have restarted his bike after he crossed the line if he had popped the clutch. I doubt he was thinking about restarting the bike so he could wheelie around after Colin had just passed him for 3rd.

[edit]Actually maybe he couldn't have. The valve would certainly be electronically controlled so if he stalled the bike, he would have lost the electrical systems? I know they have some battery back up because the cameras and the timing RFID (or whatever they use) was still working. I have no idea if the theoretical valve would be connected to the battery backup[/edit]

We will never know.

Anyone who follows the sport already knows MotoGP has been down the catch-tank-cheat road last year when the Japanese manufacturers accused Ducati of filling their catch tank with fuel. Dorna resolved the problem by having all teams install a 1 way valve to ensure that fuel could not be pulled from the catch tank into the main tank for 2008. Dorna mandated the teams install a valve on the hose between the main tank and the catch tank so the opportunity was certainly there and so was the motivation.

It's not a big stretch to say DORNA instituted a make-shift reserve so the guys didn't have to limp around after a big win. Rossi took a mini-vacation after he clinched in Motegi.
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I noticed it long before Rossi's celebration, that's why I made the prediction that more fuel was on the way. It hasn't been right so far and it may never be right. Dorna may just shorten the races so they misery is over more quickly.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Dec 8 2008, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>English is not your native language so I'll cut you a break.

The one way valve becomes a two way valve after they cross the finish line so they can wheelie and show off for the crowd. IT WOULD HAVE NO EFFECT ON THE RACING, ONLY ON THE SHOW.

I suspect Hayden could actually have restarted his bike after he crossed the line if he had popped the clutch. I doubt he was thinking about restarting the bike so he could wheelie around after Colin had just passed him for 3rd.

[edit]Actually maybe he couldn't have. The valve would certainly be electronically controlled so if he stalled the bike, he would have lost the electrical systems? I know they have some battery back up because the cameras and the timing RFID (or whatever they use) was still working. I have no idea if the theoretical valve would be connected to the battery backup[/edit]

We will never know.

Anyone who follows the sport already knows MotoGP has been down the catch-tank-cheat road last year when the Japanese manufacturers accused Ducati of filling their catch tank with fuel. Dorna resolved the problem by having all teams install a 1 way valve to ensure that fuel could not be pulled from the catch tank into the main tank for 2008. Dorna mandated the teams install a valve on the hose between the main tank and the catch tank so the opportunity was certainly there and so was the motivation.

It's not a big stretch to say DORNA instituted a make-shift reserve so the guys didn't have to limp around after a big win. Rossi took a mini-vacation after he clinched in Motegi.
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I noticed it long before Rossi's celebration, that's why I made the prediction that more fuel was on the way. It hasn't been right so far and it may never be right. Dorna may just shorten the races so they misery is over more quickly.
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in the absence of information, why do you conjure up the most outlandish "theories" to fit the few basic facts? please say you do it for comedic effect....

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigAl @ Dec 8 2008, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>in the absence of information, why do you conjure up the most outlandish "theories" to fit the few basic facts? please say you do it for comedic effect....

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All I do is notice multiple coincidences all related to a central theme. I allow myself to ask the question, "could these events be related?"

Most of my outlandish theories are constructed to answer questions that cannot be easily answered by conventional wisdom.

We already know DORNA required all of the teams to add a valve to the catch tank. We already know they monitor the exact moment the bike crosses the finish line.

It it too outlandish to suggest they might have created a reserve so the guys can show off after the race is done? Last year they thought Ducati was already using the catch tank as a reserve. Dorna already demanded the teams installed a control valve. The manufacturers all surely adopted 1 design so the regulation could be easily policed.

Is it too outlandish to suggest that Ezy made a suggestion for the good of the viewership?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Dec 8 2008, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is it too outlandish to suggest that Ezy made a suggestion for the good of the viewership?

given his track record, YES!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Dec 9 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The manufacturers all surely adopted 1 design so the regulation could be easily policed.

Is it too outlandish to suggest that Ezy made a suggestion for the good of the viewership?

And that easily policed valve should be transformed to a two way valve after the race? Are you serious and plain stupid or just trolling? How the h could they police a two way valve? I mean they could but that would require a radio transmittion bak from the valve directly to race control, unintercepted by the bikes electronics. It would quickly become a a very complex regime.

Btw: Transponders have their own battery, and so do probably the cameras. All in independant circuits. Imagine what hell it would raise if a cameara short circuited and stalled the bike?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Dec 9 2008, 02:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And that easily policed valve should be transformed to a two way valve after the race? Are you serious and plain stupid or just trolling? How the h could they police a two way valve? I mean they could but that would require a radio transmittion bak from the valve directly to race control, unintercepted by the bikes electronics. It would quickly become a a very complex regime.

Btw: Transponders have their own battery, and so do probably the cameras. All in independant circuits. Imagine what hell it would raise if a cameara short circuited and stalled the bike?

Actually the valve would be unnecessarily complex so it fits perfectly with the rest of the sport.

I have no idea about this valve, and I'm sort of trolling around to see what people have to say.

However, I do have an important question. How did Rossi celebrate for 10 minutes after the race ended? Is Motegi that easy on the fuel? If so, why did they load him down with a full 21 liters?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Dec 10 2008, 01:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kind of lame, but maybe he stopped and got fuel
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That sounds unlikely but the bike's fuel consumption does drop significantly when your not full on the powerband...
 
And maybe he saved fuel, cause he didn't have to push that much in the last laps.. I don't know!
 
I don't think any of us know how Rossi was able to enjoy a 10 minute victory lap complete with a huge burnout, but that's not stopping me from asking the question and attempting to find an explanation.

For better or worse
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