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Banning "Intelligent" Rear Shocks?

Keshav

Keshav

Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
"FIM officials at WSB round at Vallenlunga warned Ohlins technicians that it's probable that the electronic shocks will be banned in Superbike and possibly even in Moto GP."

Intelligent shocks are what's made a difference in recent rounds for the Yamaha bikes that are famous for eating up tires long before the end of race. Seems stupid to make it difficult for a manufacturer to tailor the bike to the spec tire. If the Ohlins shocks go into more widespread production they would cost around $5,000.00 - not a lot in grand scheme. So far the logic behind the proposed ban has not been laid out in the press. Or has anyone heard anything?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 19 2008, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"FIM officials at WSB round at Vallenlunga warned Ohlins technicians that it's probable that the electronic shocks will be banned in Superbike and possibly even in Moto GP."

Intelligent shocks are what's made a difference in recent rounds for the Yamaha bikes that are famous for eating up tires long before the end of race. Seems stupid to make it difficult for a manufacturer to tailor the bike to the spec tire. If the Ohlins shocks go into more widespread production they would cost around $5,000.00 - not a lot in grand scheme. So far the logic behind the proposed ban has not been laid out in the press. Or has anyone heard anything?
This is the first I've heard of the technology other than it being mentioned in passing in interviews and such.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Nov 19 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>"FIM officials at WSB round at Vallenlunga warned Ohlins technicians that it's probable that the electronic shocks will be banned in Superbike and possibly even in Moto GP."

Intelligent shocks are what's made a difference in recent rounds for the Yamaha bikes that are famous for eating up tires long before the end of race. Seems stupid to make it difficult for a manufacturer to tailor the bike to the spec tire. If the Ohlins shocks go into more widespread production they would cost around $5,000.00 - not a lot in grand scheme. So far the logic behind the proposed ban has not been laid out in the press. Or has anyone heard anything?
Its all about Yamaha getting the upper hand on Ducati.There is a reason Ducati has won something like 15 out of 20 WSBK titles and the series had the nickname of Ducati Cup.They will let the Japs win one about every 3-4 years to keep them interested but i dont think you will ever see them win more than 2 maybe 3 in a row.What i would love to see is Honda build a 1200cc Vtwin like they did when the rules were so far in Ducati's favor back in the early 2000's.They slapped together the RC and kicked Ducati's ....Then they went to the litre bikes and the japs started kicking ... again.Then,they restricted the jap litre bikes with restrictor plates,then allowed Ducati to go 1200cc.If Honda came out with a 1200cc Vtwin Sport bike,i would be first in line to buy one to match the Rc sitting in my garage.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 19 2008, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its all about Yamaha getting the upper hand on Ducati.There is a reason Ducati has won something like 15 out of 20 WSBK titles and the series had the nickname of Ducati Cup.They will let the Japs win one about every 3-4 years to keep them interested but i dont think you will ever see them win more than 2 maybe 3 in a row.What i would love to see is Honda build a 1200cc Vtwin like they did when the rules were so far in Ducati's favor back in the early 2000's.They slapped together the RC and kicked Ducati's ....Then they went to the litre bikes and the japs started kicking ... again.Then,they restricted the jap litre bikes with restrictor plates,then allowed Ducati to go 1200cc.If Honda came out with a 1200cc Vtwin Sport bike,i would be first in line to buy one to match the Rc sitting in my garage.
Lucky. I've been considering selling the R6 if I can find a 51 in good shape around here. One of the coolest sportbikes of the modern era.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 19 2008, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Its all about Yamaha getting the upper hand on Ducati.There is a reason Ducati has won something like 15 out of 20 WSBK titles and the series had the nickname of Ducati Cup.They will let the Japs win one about every 3-4 years to keep them interested but i dont think you will ever see them win more than 2 maybe 3 in a row.What i would love to see is Honda build a 1200cc Vtwin like they did when the rules were so far in Ducati's favor back in the early 2000's.They slapped together the RC and kicked Ducati's ....Then they went to the litre bikes and the japs started kicking ... again.Then,they restricted the jap litre bikes with restrictor plates,then allowed Ducati to go 1200cc.If Honda came out with a 1200cc Vtwin Sport bike,i would be first in line to buy one to match the Rc sitting in my garage.


I'm not trying to suggest that WSBK don't favor Ducati, but Ezy has been whining about electronic suspension for a while as well.

In GP Ducati use electronic suspension. Remember when Elias got the new electronic shock at Sachsenring not long after D'Antin was fired? Within a few rounds Elias had made progress dialing it in, the rear tire started getting heat and Elias started getting results.

In my mind, this is just another case of the FIM banning another useful technology for the production market, I'm don't think it is motivated by politics.

The FIM have said "no" to oval pistons and electronic suspension (both of which would be significant developments for the production market), but "yes" to pneumatic valves and gps traction control?

Who is in charge of this mess and why in God's name are they banning the useful stuff while they allow utter crap to take over the sport?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 19 2008, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lucky. I've been considering selling the R6 if I can find a 51 in good shape around here. One of the coolest sportbikes of the modern era.

I have a 2002 ZX12r that i use for the longer Sunday rides and trips.It has 65000 miles on it and still runs like a striped ... ape.The 01 RC has 8000 miles on it.I really bought it for my son but he has this bad habit of not keeping a job so i told him to park it until he can afford to ride it,so i ride it for him to keep the battery up
<
.Im 6"6 250lbs and a little large for the RC but it is still a pretty damn decent weapon when you get in the twisties.And like you said,when you pull in the store at Deals Gap and there is 200 bikes in the parking lot,every other one is not an RC,It is a very cool bike.I had the Suzuki TLR and it was pretty sweet but the RC is a more refined racer. The TLR had a tad more motor but the RC has better suspension and better brakes and the older it gets the better it looks.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 19 2008, 11:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have a 2002 ZX12r that i use for the longer Sunday rides and trips.It has 65000 miles on it and still runs like a striped ... ape.The 01 RC has 8000 miles on it.I really bought it for my son but he has this bad habit of not keeping a job so i told him to park it until he can afford to ride it,so i ride it for him to keep the battery up
<
.Im 6"6 250lbs and a little large for the RC but it is still a pretty damn decent weapon when you get in the twisties.And like you said,when you pull in the store at Deals Gap and there is 200 bikes in the parking lot,every other one is not an RC,It is a very cool bike.I had the Suzuki TLR and it was pretty sweet but the RC is a more refined racer. The TLR had a tad more motor but the RC has better suspension and better brakes and the older it gets the better it looks.
What's the powerband like? I love riding my R6 but like any inline four it needs to be revved to the moon to get the most out of it. I really prefer lower revs and have always thought a twin might be more comfortable. Also, I've heard that the 51 is possibly the most uncomfortable bike ever made, any truth to that?
 
Hmm . . . I have an '02 R6 also and have always been curious about the RC 51 - but haven't seriously looked into it as on the occasional weekend, I take the wife on the back seat and the RC doesn't have one - but she's finally going to take the MSF course and get her license - so single seat bikes are once again a possibility. Also - living in the city - twins make much more sense. But yes - I have heard the RC is useless - comfort-wise - for more than sprint racing or a trip to the store.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 20 2008, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What's the powerband like? I love riding my R6 but like any inline four it needs to be revved to the moon to get the most out of it. I really prefer lower revs and have always thought a twin might be more comfortable. Also, I've heard that the 51 is possibly the most uncomfortable bike ever made, any truth to that?

The RC has decent torque but to really find the sweet spot,you have to keep the revs up in the 6-7 range if you want to get the most out of it.Stock gearing is high,sprocket change does wonders.Its heavy compared to your 6 but is solid in the twisties,doesnt have the skittish front end that some 6's have.The ergo's are for racing but it really isnt that bad,but i do ride alot.Like i said,im a big guy and put 1000 miles on it one weekend.I had a trip planned and the night before i was about to leave,i had my 12 all loaded up and ready to go and it fell of the the stand.Busted stator case,busted coolant reservoir,busted left side fairng,bent fairing brackets,bent reservoir bracket.The neighbors had to cover their ears im sure..... it,im taking the RC.Had to do a considerable amount of Interstate droning and it wasnt excruciating or anything like that and i have had a knee replaced.One thing that did help was a Corbin seat,way better than that plank you get stock.The RC is a little better performance wise than a six but not much.Here is how close they are.With me on the RC at 250 lbs and a friend that weighs 170ish on an R6,top gear roll on from 70 mph we were lock step for 2 miles.Im not sure what gear he had but the 80 extra pounds made a big difference.Its not the fastest bike out there but it looks great and sounds great
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 20 2008, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The RC has decent torque but to really find the sweet spot,you have to keep the revs up in the 6-7 range if you want to get the most out of it.Stock gearing is high,sprocket change does wonders.Its heavy compared to your 6 but is solid in the twisties,doesnt have the skittish front end that some 6's have.The ergo's are for racing but it really isnt that bad,but i do ride alot.Like i said,im a big guy and put 1000 miles on it one weekend.I had a trip planned and the night before i was about to leave,i had my 12 all loaded up and ready to go and it fell of the the stand.Busted stator case,busted coolant reservoir,busted left side fairng,bent fairing brackets,bent reservoir bracket.The neighbors had to cover their ears im sure..... it,im taking the RC.Had to do a considerable amount of Interstate droning and it wasnt excruciating or anything like that and i have had a knee replaced.One thing that did help was a Corbin seat,way better than that plank you get stock.The RC is a little better performance wise than a six but not much.Here is how close they are.With me on the RC at 250 lbs and a friend that weighs 170ish on an R6,top gear roll on from 70 mph we were lock step for 2 miles.Im not sure what gear he had but the 80 extra pounds made a big difference.Its not the fastest bike out there but it looks great and sounds great
Thanks povol. Yeah, I don't need much more speed than I have. I would just prefer a more usable/comfortable powerband.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 20 2008, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have a 2002 ZX12r that i use for the longer Sunday rides and trips.It has 65000 miles on it and still runs like a striped ... ape.The 01 RC has 8000 miles on it.I really bought it for my son but he has this bad habit of not keeping a job so i told him to park it until he can afford to ride it,so i ride it for him to keep the battery up
<
.Im 6"6 250lbs and a little large for the RC but it is still a pretty damn decent weapon when you get in the twisties.And like you said,when you pull in the store at Deals Gap and there is 200 bikes in the parking lot,every other one is not an RC,It is a very cool bike.I had the Suzuki TLR and it was pretty sweet but the RC is a more refined racer. The TLR had a tad more motor but the RC has better suspension and better brakes and the older it gets the better it looks.

Haha, well OF COURSE ya figured out that I have a TLR
<
...and, the older it gets the less it looks like any of the newer bikes coming out!! Now, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad, but the non-bikers that come up and say "sweet bike!" would never know its damn near 10 yrs old. And, with a Penske rear shock, braided lines and properly valved forks (re-geared, too!) it will still hold its own in the twisties! Plus, I don't need a Corbin...it came with a gel seat!!

Now, if I can only find one of those Intellishocks that'll fit my bike.....WOO-HOO!!

But, seriously....here's my take on it. If the bike wasn't offered with an OEM Intelligent rear shock, how could it be allowed in WSBK race trim?
Hmm....but, that would erase a LOT of the electronics/sensors that are being run on most of the bikes now...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tlrwinder @ Nov 21 2008, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Haha, well OF COURSE ya figured out that I have a TLR
<
...and, the older it gets the less it looks like any of the newer bikes coming out!! Now, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad, but the non-bikers that come up and say "sweet bike!" would never know its damn near 10 yrs old. And, with a Penske rear shock, braided lines and properly valved forks (re-geared, too!) it will still hold its own in the twisties! Plus, I don't need a Corbin...it came with a gel seat!!

Now, if I can only find one of those Intellishocks that'll fit my bike.....WOO-HOO!!

But, seriously....here's my take on it. If the bike wasn't offered with an OEM Intelligent rear shock, how could it be allowed in WSBK race trim?
Hmm....but, that would erase a LOT of the electronics/sensors that are being run on most of the bikes now...
Dont get me wrong,i loved my TLR and like i said, it had a tad more power than the RC.When i bought my TLR,the RC was not even on the drawing board.It came down to the TLR and the Superhawk and i chose the TLR,Yellow.I rode it to one of my kids swim meets and one of the other parents looked at and said,buddy,if you had paid an extra 50 bucks,you could have got that thing painted totally yellow.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 21 2008, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dont get me wrong,i loved my TLR and like i said, it had a tad more power than the RC.When i bought my TLR,the RC was not even on the drawing board.It came down to the TLR and the Superhawk and i chose the TLR,Yellow.I rode it to one of my kids swim meets and one of the other parents looked at and said,buddy,if you had paid an extra 50 bucks,you could have got that thing painted totally yellow.

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tlrwinder @ Nov 21 2008, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But, seriously....here's my take on it. If the bike wasn't offered with an OEM Intelligent rear shock, how could it be allowed in WSBK race trim?
Hmm....but, that would erase a LOT of the electronics/sensors that are being run on most of the bikes now...

That's whats wrong with superbike these days in my opinion. They are allowed far too many parts that aren't on the production models.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 20 2008, 04:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.Then,they restricted the jap litre bikes with restrictor plates,then allowed Ducati to go 1200cc.
Wrong. The Ducatis are the ones with the very limiting restrictor plates. The Ducati 1200cc, in WSBK spec, has a very lightly tuned engine. The Inline-4s have much greater tuning freedom.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RCV600RR @ Nov 24 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wrong. The Ducatis are the ones with the very limiting restrictor plates. The Ducati 1200cc, in WSBK spec, has a very lightly tuned engine. The Inline-4s have much greater tuning freedom.
I should have been a little clearer.In chronological order,when the jap superbikes were allowed 1000cc,up from the 750,it didnt take long for the FIM to mandate a restrictor plate on them.Now they allow 1200cc for the twins in a lower state of tune.They have a manipulative scenario where plates and weight can be added or deducted depending on how the new 1200 does.To my knowledge,the intake plate,nor weight, was changed during the course of the whole season.It was in BSB but the Duc dominated anyway.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 24 2008, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I should have been a little clearer.In chronological order,when the jap superbikes were allowed 1000cc,up from the 750,it didnt take long for the FIM to mandate a restrictor plate on them.Now they allow 1200cc for the twins in a lower state of tune.They have a manipulative scenario where plates and weight can be added or deducted depending on how the new 1200 does.To my knowledge,the intake plate,nor weight, was changed during the course of the whole season.It was in BSB but the Duc dominated anyway.

You're right it was unfair.

They should have allowed Ducati to run the Desmosedici. I think the Japanese got off lightly with a 200cc displacement increase. The Italians have proved they rule production bike racing b/c they can sell extremely expensive bikes.

Did you notice how WSBK suddenly upped the minimum production numbers?
<
The Japanese should have just held a press conference letting everyone know they were out maneuvered by a tiny, broke Italian firm who was about to run a motogp bike in WSBK.
<


The Japanese make great products and in many respects they ARE global motorcycle racing. But they keep getting beat by this little financial blackhole called Ducati.

I would like to think that the general public may finally be willing to reward a company whose approach to building motorcycles doesn't revolve solely around the size and color of the number at the bottom of the income statement. Duacti still sell bikes so they can go racing---even after the reorganization of the company.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Nov 25 2008, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Duacti still sell bikes so they can go racing---even after the reorganization of the company.
No, Ducati race so they can sell bikes
 
When the news came out that Ducati was going to manufacture a MOTOGP replica bike there were alot of teams getting nervous cause that bike would be able to race in SBK because of the homologation numbers were going to be met.They only way we have that bike today is because motoGP went to 800cc's and that Desmosedici you can buy is at 900cc's. I heard talk a while ago that someone was going to race the bike in a series but Ducati didn't want it to be raced because they wanted to make sure the 1098 was going to be successful. WE all know who just won the WSBk series this year and that the 1098 which will now be the 1198 so I really doubt we will see the desmosedici ever in competition unless some real rich dude puts up the money for a bunch of those bikes and the parts to keep them running.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Nov 26 2008, 03:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did you notice how WSBK suddenly upped the minimum production numbers?
<
The Japanese should have just held a press conference letting everyone know they were out maneuvered by a tiny, broke Italian firm who was about to run a motogp bike in WSBK.
<



Reading through after a week away (.... work) and this nailed it...

Great post
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