AMA SBK - Round 6 - Mid Ohio

povol said:

Are you talking about actually competing, or just putting more bikes on the grid. If your talking about competing, i dont care what rules package you have, the better riders will be at the pointy end. I dont know whats so hard to understand about that.. If they mandated bikes have to be showroom without lights and blinkers and you could enter a bike for 10 grand, the same guys would be at the front.

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Bikes on the grid. Why would I want to rearrange the pecking order? You have the weirdest phobias. Not even DMG were trying to change who wins. They put an end to the "factory" supremacy battles b/c the AMA's best talent was being paid to troll around on uncompetitive garbage while their employer waffled as to whether they wanted to race or just dress the factory windows.



Unfortunately, we still have the same problem as before. Talented riders are trying to get into SBK on a paying ride, but they paying rides are not present b/c WSS still requires factory involvement. Good news, imo, is that the situation can be fixed with one Attack-Kawasaki or Erion-Honda deal. With a little luck, maybe Michael Lock will end up with Aprilia and he'll start an AMA racing program.

it's damn near impossible for privateers without Graves or Yosh links to make any headway. I'm sure neither outfit is unwilling to supply technical assistance with the engines,



That sounds a lot like a performance quote, but whatever!

mylexicon said:

Bikes on the grid. Why would I want to rearrange the pecking order? You have the weirdest phobias. Not even DMG were trying to change who wins. They put an end to the "factory" supremacy battles b/c the AMA's best talent was being paid to troll around on uncompetitive garbage while their employer waffled as to whether they wanted to race or just dress the factory windows.



Unfortunately, we still have the same problem as before. Talented riders are trying to get into SBK on a paying ride, but they paying rides are not present b/c WSS still requires factory involvement. Good news, imo, is that the situation can be fixed with one Attack-Kawasaki or Erion-Honda deal. With a little luck, maybe Michael Lock will end up with Aprilia and he'll start an AMA racing program.

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I ve been asking you that the whole time you have been an advocate for dumbing down Superbike, so privateers have a better chance of winning

povol said:

I ve been asking you that the whole time you have been an advocate for dumbing down Superbike, so privateers have a better chance of winning

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Why would DMG trade no-name privateers for known AMA champs? The fundamental lack of understanding is so profound it boggles the mind. DMG are an entertainment company, they want AMA champs on the podium at every single race. DMG simply wanted the AMA champs to race for wins across all brands in all classes. DMG's plan went over like a lead balloon b/c competition drives up expenses for the manufacturers. Cherry picking is a manageable cost-benefit activity.



The pointy end is AMA champs. Always has been always will be. Obviously, they didn't change the equipment so that bad riders would win. They changed the equipment so the AMA's best riders weren't waiting for a chance to ride one of the 4 or 5 bikes that would give you an SBK or FX championship. If equipment is available to everyone, all you need is riding talent and a crew of good mechanics. You shouldn't need a factory to win a production bike race. The bikes have already been built!

mylexicon said:

Why would DMG trade no-name privateers for known AMA champs? The fundamental lack of understanding is so profound it boggles the mind. DMG are an entertainment company, they want AMA champs on the podium at every single race. DMG simply wanted the AMA champs to race for wins across all brands in all classes. DMG's plan went over like a lead balloon b/c competition drives up expenses for the manufacturers. Cherry picking is a manageable cost-benefit activity.



The pointy end is AMA champs. Always has been always will be. Obviously, they didn't change the equipment so that bad riders would win. They changed the equipment so the AMA's best riders weren't waiting for a chance to ride one of the 4 or 5 bikes that would give you an SBK or FX championship. If equipment is available to everyone, all you need is riding talent and a crew of good mechanics. You shouldn't need a factory to win a production bike race. The bikes have already been built!

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The equipment is available to everyone, you got what you wanted as the DMG apologist with virtually stock bikes, a spec tire and spec fuel. That didnt work out as planned so your pushing another agenda. You really remind me of the kid who's excuse for never winning was his bigwheel, tricycle, bicylcle, mini bike, motorcycle etc: was never good enough. You had the talent, just didnt have the equipment. Its the oldest excuse in the world for losers. I have said it a million times, privateers are privateers for a reason, who gives a rats ... if there are 40 of them on the grid getting in the way. I have been following this sport for a long time and right off the top of my head, i cant think of a great rider who fell thru the cracks and went unnoticed because he didnt get one of the 4 or 5 bikes that could win a championship. If your good, you WILL get noticed

povol said:

The equipment is available to everyone, you got what you wanted as the DMG apologist with virtually stock bikes, a spec tire and spec fuel. That didnt work out as planned so your pushing another agenda. You really remind me of the kid who's excuse for never winning was his bigwheel, tricycle, bicylcle, mini bike, motorcycle etc: was never good enough. You had the talent, just didnt have the equipment. Its the oldest excuse in the world for losers. I have said it a million times, privateers are privateers for a reason, who gives a rats ... if there are 40 of them on the grid getting in the way. I have been following this sport for a long time and right off the top of my head, i cant think of a great rider who fell thru the cracks and went unnoticed because he didnt get one of the 4 or 5 bikes that could win a championship. If your good, you WILL get noticed

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Cost reduction was the goal, not stock bikes. I've suggested adding equipment to the special allowances list b/c it will make the bikes less stock and less expensive. Furthermore, all of the AMA teams are private including Yosh Suzuki and Erion Honda.



I still have no idea why you are complaining? Bad teams will always be bad. Parts won't help them so why are you paranoid? I'm suggesting more aftermarket parts to cut costs. Why rant about stock bikes?

mylexicon said:

Cost reduction was the goal, not stock bikes. I've suggested adding equipment to the special allowances list b/c it will make the bikes less stock and less expensive. Furthermore, all of the AMA teams are private including Yosh Suzuki and Erion Honda.



I still have no idea why you are complaining? Bad teams will always be bad. Parts won't help them so why are you paranoid? I'm suggesting more aftermarket parts to cut costs. Why rant about stock bikes?

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And good teams will be good teams, and good riders will be good riders. Its what ive been saying. You were the number one advocate on this board for DMG and their plan. It hasnt worked so your crayfishing to the other side. Sometimes i wonder if you remember what side of a debate your on. Cost reduction means performance reduction, special allowances sound an awful lot like performance indexing, which the paying customer has rejected hands down. Yours and DMG's idea of competition has been rejected. Maybe if they slow them down another 10 seconds per lap, i will go racing ' professionally' and run with the lead pack. Thats all this is, dumbing down performance to the point where good riders can ride with the great riders in packs. So far it doesnt sell. I have heard from people who went to Mid Ohio that attendance from vendors and fans was as bad as they had seen at Mid Ohio ever. Maybe someone will get the message soon.

It was nice to see Tommy so determined for the win. I really thought Hayes would overtake in the end, but it never happened thanks to Tommy's all out pace in the last lap.



Oh, I like DSB. Its fun to watch. So its not true "supersport", I'll accept that. Same with "superbike". Sure its not WSBK, but its fun to watch and looks fairly level.

povol said:

And good teams will be good teams, and good riders will be good riders. Its what ive been saying. You were the number one advocate on this board for DMG and their plan. It hasnt worked so your crayfishing to the other side. Sometimes i wonder if you remember what side of a debate your on. Cost reduction means performance reduction, special allowances sound an awful lot like performance indexing, which the paying customer has rejected hands down. Yours and DMG's idea of competition has been rejected. Maybe if they slow them down another 10 seconds per lap, i will go racing ' professionally' and run with the lead pack. Thats all this is, dumbing down performance to the point where good riders can ride with the great riders in packs. So far it doesnt sell. I have heard from people who went to Mid Ohio that attendance from vendors and fans was as bad as they had seen at Mid Ohio ever. Maybe someone will get the message soon.

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Stock bikes were never the goal. I proposed high compression pistons b/c it would make the bikes easier to tune while decreasing costs. Who's crayfishing? Maybe if I was trying to make the bikes more expensive and more difficult to tune. The bikes have been dumbed down, but where are all the bad riders? I don't see them on the podium. They have equal equipment to Hayes and Hayden yet they generally backmark at least 20 seconds off the pace. Where are your phobias manifesting themselves? I don't see it. The only thing you can say about DMG is that they have a Ducati bias. I guess DMG are as bad as InFront.



It might help if you understood how engines work as well. The bikes have lost about 5% of their total power output b/c cam lift cannot be modified, factory electronics are gone, and they reduced fuel octane and energy density. All of those titanium parts you love are designed to reduce reciprocating mass so emaciated European children can ride them. Titanium parts actually make the bikes less demanding to ride. The bikes are missing full race suspension. That's it. If the money returns to the sport, they can add suspension mods quite easily b/c the equipment is supplied by 3rd party companies (unlike the factory electronics and the titanium engine parts).



This is the worst condition the motorcycle market has been in since the 1960s IIRC. The industry is full of imbeciles who circle ...... one another when sales reached an all time high in 2006, but now they pass the blame when their overpriced products and terrible credit practices have destroyed their industry. Motorcycle racing is very simple, and I have no idea why people haven't learned that lesson yet. Even the Flamminis thought they could buck the trend, but now they have 18 bikes on the grid. MotoGP has 17. WSS has what? 15? BSB has 10 "real" SBKs and 20 Evo bikes that are lower spec than AMA SBKs.



You need to pay attention instead of dwelling on your moral crusade against DMG. Everyone is reducing the technical complexity b/c everyone is out of money. If American sports motorcycling is going to survive, the costs of RR bikes needs to drop by about 25%. Until sales return to 2006 levels, your idea of manufacturer-directed SBK racing isn't possible.

Jumkie said:

It was nice to see Tommy so determined for the win. I really thought Hayes would overtake in the end, but it never happened thanks to Tommy's all out pace in the last lap.



Oh, I like DSB. Its fun to watch. So its not true "supersport", I'll accept that. Same with "superbike". Sure its not WSBK, but its fun to watch and looks fairly level.

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Both SBK and DSB championship races got really interesting this weekend. Can't believe Josh chucked it down the road, but it has certainly made the title race close. Full credit to Cardenas as well. He crashed and still finished 5th.



I have a feeling that Laguna is going to be wild. Hayes doesn't have particularly good luck there. Last year was not good for him in either class, and it is the site of his big turn 2 highside in 2007 IIRC. Herrin, on the other hand, should go really well at Laguna. It will be interesting to see if Danny or Martin will challenge him at all.

mylexicon said:

Stock bikes were never the goal. I proposed high compression pistons b/c it would make the bikes easier to tune while decreasing costs. Who's crayfishing?

Maybe if I was trying to make the bikes more expensive and more difficult to tune. The bikes have been dumbed down, but where are all the bad riders? I don't see them on the podium. They have equal equipment to Hayes and Hayden yet they generally backmark at least 20 seconds off the pace. Where are your phobias manifesting themselves? I don't see it. The only thing you can say about DMG is that they have a Ducati bias. I guess DMG are as bad as InFront.



It might help if you understood how engines work as well. The bikes have lost about 5% of their total power output b/c cam lift cannot be modified, factory electronics are gone, and they reduced fuel octane and energy density. All of those titanium parts you love are designed to reduce reciprocating mass so emaciated European children can ride them. Titanium parts actually make the bikes less demanding to ride.

The bikes are missing full race suspension. That's it. If the money returns to the sport, they can add suspension mods quite easily b/c the equipment is supplied by 3rd party companies (unlike the factory electronics and the titanium engine parts).



This is the worst condition the motorcycle market has been in since the 1960s IIRC. The industry is full of imbeciles who circle ...... one another when sales reached an all time high in 2006, but now they pass the blame when their overpriced products and terrible credit practices have destroyed their industry. Motorcycle racing is very simple, and I have no idea why people haven't learned that lesson yet. Even the Flamminis thought they could buck the trend, but now they have 18 bikes on the grid. MotoGP has 17. WSS has what? 15? BSB has 10 "real" SBKs and 20 Evo bikes that are lower spec than AMA SBKs.



You need to pay attention instead of dwelling on your moral crusade against DMG. Everyone is reducing the technical complexity b/c everyone is out of money. If American sports motorcycling is going to survive, the costs of RR bikes needs to drop by about 25%. Until sales return to 2006 levels, your idea of manufacturer-directed SBK racing isn't possible.

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Dammit Sybil, will you get on one side of the fence and stay there.



In one post, to try and make your point, you say they dont have the same equipment as Graves or Yoshimura . Now to make a different point, you say they do. I said, the dumbed down rules allow GOOD riders to ride with great riders. You threw the phrase" bad rider" in to help your cause. Bottom line is, you have to treat racing as a competition first, and entertainment 2nd. Dumbing down the competition for entertainments sake is a turn off to race fans. Racing in general is in trouble because of this mindset. Its the only professional sport i can think of where an athletes talents are purposely governed. Would the NFL be more entertaining if Peyton Manning had to use his left arm, Maybe Lebron and Kobe should wear ankle weights, or Sidney Crosby has to use a 4 pound stick. Excellence has to be allowed to flourish, be it in the engineering department, in the pits, or on the track. If not, the sport will stagnate and die. This is where we are in AMA and a decision has to be made. Is it a sport, or is it a show. The show crowd has not shown up for AMA racing and the sport crowd has gone away. Seems like a no brainer.

povol said:

Dammit Sybil, will you get on one side of the fence and stay there.



In one post, to try and make your point, you say they dont have the same equipment as Graves or Yoshimura . Now to make a different point, you say they do. I said, the dumbed down rules allow GOOD riders to ride with great riders. You threw the phrase" bad rider" in to help your cause. Bottom line is, you have to treat racing as a competition first, and entertainment 2nd. Dumbing down the competition for entertainments sake is a turn off to race fans. Racing in general is in trouble because of this mindset. Its the only professional sport i can think of where an athletes talents are purposely governed. Would the NFL be more entertaining if Peyton Manning had to use his left arm, Maybe Lebron and Kobe should wear ankle weights, or Sidney Crosby has to use a 4 pound stick. Excellence has to be allowed to flourish, be it in the engineering department, in the pits, or on the track. If not, the sport will stagnate and die. This is where we are in AMA and a decision has to be made. Is it a sport, or is it a show. The show crowd has not shown up for AMA racing and the sport crowd has gone away. Seems like a no brainer.

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You're confused b/c you don't understand the various arguments. The sport was not dumbed down to improve the competition. Dumbed-down bikes are not easier to ride, they are probably harder to ride, but they are much easier to setup. The engine mods and the lightweight parts are worth zero power and they only make the bikes easier to ride so you can't be in love with engine mods. You're not in love with electronics either. Suspension is the only thing you care about.The world's best Ohlins don't come from Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, or Kawasaki so why are you freaking out?



The WSS rules have cut costs and made the equipment available to everyone, but there are still some glaring cost inefficiencies. The Graves and Yosh prepped bikes are rumored to cost between $40,000 and $60,000 depending upon the class and the amount of equipment they actually install on the bike. A race prepped bike with a stock engine would cost what? $20,000-$25,000? But you'd still be 25hp short of the Graves and Yosh bikes. For $1,000 extra dollars a stock engine could get within 10hp if high compression aluminum pistons were homologated. Yosh have already done it for Suzukis so kudos to them. JE did it for Honda.



It's necessary to get rid of these cost inefficiencies b/c teams like KWS, Erion, Attack (until Mid-Ohio), Rockwall, and ex-Corona Honda (can't remember the team name) are all sitting around on their duffs b/c they can't afford to tune WSS by themselves and they can't purchase equipment from another tuning company. High compression pistons will get them close enough so they can compete and network with sponsors. It helped Attack. Call me crazy, but I highly doubt they have leased at Yosh bike, and I doubt Eric would come back to ride a slow turd. I have a strange feeling E Boz and Attack will be fielding a Kawasaki next year.

Sorry I am replying to this thread so late but I just joined. The sunday races were my first cycle races I have ever attended and I had a great time and will be back. The sport bike race was really good.



david

davepi2 said:

Sorry I am replying to this thread so late but I just joined. The sunday races were my first cycle races I have ever attended and I had a great time and will be back. The sport bike race was really good.



david

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welcome aboard.

povol said:

And good teams will be good teams, and good riders will be good riders. Its what ive been saying. You were the number one advocate on this board for DMG and their plan. It hasnt worked so your crayfishing to the other side. Sometimes i wonder if you remember what side of a debate your on. Cost reduction means performance reduction, special allowances sound an awful lot like performance indexing, which the paying customer has rejected hands down. Yours and DMG's idea of competition has been rejected. Maybe if they slow them down another 10 seconds per lap, i will go racing ' professionally' and run with the lead pack. Thats all this is, dumbing down performance to the point where good riders can ride with the great riders in packs. So far it doesnt sell. I have heard from people who went to Mid Ohio that attendance from vendors and fans was as bad as they had seen at Mid Ohio ever. Maybe someone will get the message soon.

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I think you are correct that the perceived importance goes down with less-sophisticated equipment. Grand-Am recently sent a memo to its teams detailing future upgrades and major changes to the series that involve attracting new manufacturers and allowing more modifications. They are finally getting it (they're also trying to pounce on a struggling rival in ALMS). Edmondson being gone may be key to this newfound openness (or the opportunity to put the ALMS in the ground and finally win this war could be the only motivation, who knows?). Why am I bringing up a sports car series here? What I am getting at is that France-family controlled road racing series aren't immune to opening up the specs.



Roger seemed very confident in his ideas and plans, both for Grand-Am and AMA Superbike. Grand-Am achieved success in attracting entrants, although some in the know pointed to France family connections as an enticement for participation (e.g. sponsor hand-outs, Sun Trust loans with favorable terms). In an interview that occurred just before the Rolex 24, when the series had reached its height in entrants and name-driver participation in the 24-hour race, Edmondson triumphantly declared his was "the best road racing series on the planet." Edmondson seemed very confident his ideas for superbike would not only work, but they would go over well with fans as well. In his speech during the announcement of DMG's acquisition of AMA road racing, he said that this could not fail because the Frances were behind it. It did...Edmondson's idea of a 600cc stand-alone superbike class didn't even make it past the off-season.



Now Roger is gone and Dave Atlas seems to be doing a good job getting the organization in line and putting the focus back on the racing. I think the real litmus test for the closer-to-production superbike class will be if/when the factories return, bringing promotional dollars and the heightened fan perception of significance often associated with factories. If the big four are racing eachother closely in superbike and daytona sport bike and the fans still don't show up, then it will be time to open the specs up again, and they might actually do it.

Mr. Shupe said:

I think you are correct that the perceived importance goes down with less-sophisticated equipment. Grand-Am recently sent a memo to its teams detailing future upgrades and major changes to the series that involve attracting new manufacturers and allowing more modifications. They are finally getting it (they're also trying to pounce on a struggling rival in ALMS). Edmondson being gone may be key to this newfound openness (or the opportunity to put the ALMS in the ground and finally win this war could be the only motivation, who knows?). Why am I bringing up a sports car series here? What I am getting at is that France-family controlled road racing series aren't immune to opening up the specs.



Roger seemed very confident in his ideas and plans, both for Grand-Am and AMA Superbike. Grand-Am achieved success in attracting entrants, although some in the know pointed to France family connections as an enticement for participation (e.g. sponsor hand-outs, Sun Trust loans with favorable terms). In an interview that occurred just before the Rolex 24, when the series had reached its height in entrants and name-driver participation in the 24-hour race, Edmondson triumphantly declared his was "the best road racing series on the planet." Edmondson seemed very confident his ideas for superbike would not only work, but they would go over well with fans as well. In his speech during the announcement of DMG's acquisition of AMA road racing, he said that this could not fail because the Frances were behind it. It did...Edmondson's idea of a 600cc stand-alone superbike class didn't even make it past the off-season.



Now Roger is gone and Dave Atlas seems to be doing a good job getting the organization in line and putting the focus back on the racing. I think the real litmus test for the closer-to-production superbike class will be if/when the factories return, bringing promotional dollars and the heightened fan perception of significance often associated with factories. If the big four are racing eachother closely in superbike and daytona sport bike and the fans still don't show up, then it will be time to open the specs up again, and they might actually do it.

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I wish it were that simple. What Povol doesn't realize is that almost all racing series on earth are performance indexed or performance normalized. Series like LMP, GT (ACO) and DTM are all air restricted. F1 is rev limited and practically spec engine these days. MotoGP is fuel limited (like Group C) and whether anyone wants to admit it or not WSBK is rev limited as well.



If you don't run a formula series, you've either got to use air restrictors or rev limiting to control performance and cost. DMG rejects air restrictors b/c it makes the series unnecessarily expensive unless the series already has a spec engine. NASCAR has a spec engine so they feel at liberty to use air restriction. For everything else, DMG generally tries to use power to weight ratios via rev limiting. It's horrid for Grand Am, and it wasn't great for DSB last year either. The only difference for motos is that the rider makes the difference as long as the bikes are relatively close (whether the performance differences are artificial or genuine) so it wasn't going to ruin the racing. It was only going to ruin the manufacturers spending spree on AMA racing. The spending spree was impossible anyway b/c sales plummeted.



Racing is getting "dumbed-down" in general. ACO has written lots of new rules. LMP1 capacity is being reduced and they are capping power at around 520bhp, IIRC. They are also adding hybrid technology to LMP1. LMP2 will be cost controlled with production based engines only. GT1 is dead, and replaced by GT endurance. ACO have even admitted they are preparing to ban works teams from LMP competition. They aren't sure whether or not they will go through with it, but they are checking with the teams and manufacturers. Sounds like DMG.



The new FIM GT1 series is basically a fancy Euro version of Grand Am.



BSB are supposedly banning factory electronics in SBK next season to reduce costs and complexity.



DTM, Japan Super GT, and Grand Am are all working together to create new touring class regulations. DTM want Japanese and American car companies. SuperGT wants more German and American cars. Grand Am wants more Japanese and German cars. The black helicopters say that the three are working together to create an internation series b/c the FIM only allows FIM manufacturers to participate in series that run in 3 countries or less. The Italians and French are allegedly trying to get in on the technical regulations as well so they don't get left behind.



The world is changing, and it's changing b/c people refuse to watch unless the manufacturers are involved. The manufacturers refuse to prototype with production relevant materials and none of them are interested in true production racing anymore (most "production classes" are silohuette prototypes these days) so they only way to keep things safe is to performance limit and performance index. It is part of every major racing series on earth and it has been for quite a long time. 500cc/MotoGP was the last bastion, but after Kato's death even the FIM succumbed to fuel restrictions and 800cc restrictions.

Here's the latest lex: http://lastturnclub.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=722&Itemid=55



They're finally looking into giving DPs a respectable look. Otherwise I feel the class has progressed nicely from its at-times embarrassing beginnings. The cars are as fast as Gt1 cars now. The thing that is surprising me is that the Frances are admitting their way isn't what all fans want. They're getting it now and are making efforts to transition Grand-Am into something palatable to a wider range of road racing fans (they're also motivated by an almost-dead ALMS, which encroached on Grand-Am territory with the new GTC class).



Roger Edmondson is gone, it looks like he may have taken the arrogance and the "this cannot fail" attitude with him. Maybe Atlas and co. can work something out with the factories and get AMA road racing in good shape?

Mr. Shupe said:

Here's the latest lex: http://lastturnclub.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=722&Itemid=55



They're finally looking into giving DPs a respectable look. Otherwise I feel the class has progressed nicely from its at-times embarrassing beginnings. The cars are as fast as Gt1 cars now. The thing that is surprising me is that the Frances are admitting their way isn't what all fans want. They're getting it now and are making efforts to transition Grand-Am into something palatable to a wider range of road racing fans (they're also motivated by an almost-dead ALMS, which encroached on Grand-Am territory with the new GTC class).



Roger Edmondson is gone, it looks like he may have taken the arrogance and the "this cannot fail" attitude with him. Maybe Atlas and co. can work something out with the factories and get AMA road racing in good shape?

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I've never really cared for any of DMG's technical regulations and I've said as much since they took over the AMA. The only thing I really cared about was using the NASCAR private team model where the manufacturers are big umbrella organizations that sponsor many different teams, and I was keen to see a homologated parts list to simplify the supply chain and stop the madness the manufacturers had started in SBK and FX (it led to uncompetitive racing).



Povol and I have never been at odds with one another over DMG's lack of technical savvy and their often annoying inability to keep manufacturer funds in play, but we have never seen eye to eye on performance controls. Povol would prefer to see the financial/human carnage played out so that the cars don't have to go slower. He thinks that performance controls and performance indexing are exclusive to DMG (even though performance indexing is in the WSBK rulebook). I realize that performance controls are ubiquitous, and as annoying as they are, the only way to get rid of them is to go back in time when the teams used to design things from aluminum (and it bit of titanium) without engineering simulation software. I was tired of watching the AMA self-destruct while the manufacturers paid millions to prove that the AMA could host the worst racing with the loosest technical regulations. Admittedly, DMG AMA Pro is only slightly smarter, but still substantially poorer.



If David Atlas is a far more competent managing member than Roger Edmondson that's good to hear. If AMA Pro is in 2010 is anything to go by, he should have been promoted a long time ago. One way or another I don't really care about DMG or Atlas or Edmondson. I don't watch any of their racing products, I've just always thought DMG was the lesser of two evils. A lot of people liked to pretend that the MIC was a Messianic organization with just a few minor niggling flaws. If the MIC had laid out a counterproposal to Edmondson's train wreck in DSB, maybe things could have been a lot different. They never gave Edmondson the chance to publicly shoot down any good ideas. They simply alleged that he was an awful person. I don't know whether they are right or wrong, but their failure to protect that which they claimed to love (eventually pulling out and then threatening an MIC breakaway series) was their last pathetic failure. Luckily for us, Yamaha and Suzuki just did their own thing.



I'm glad to hear Grand Am is on the up and up. Maybe I'll be able to watch now. I don't know. I don't actually care for cage racing, I just like the business of cage racing and the complexities of technical regulations and organizational models. I can watch them go around a track just to observe a vehicle at speed, but I've never been terribly compelled by the season storyline or by the act of driving a car.

I forgot to mention that I do not think that Grand Am will overthrow ALMS. If ACO had not changed LMS competition, perhaps ALMS would have lost out as DMG continue to make alliances with DTM and the FIA, but ACO has written a stellar rules package (besides hybrid technology). The production-engine-based LMP2 cars are particularly good, not b/c I like production-based engines, but b/c it will allow a plethora of American engine tuners to make engines for ALMS competition. It was possible previously, but a production-based engine doesn't have much chance against factory-prepared racing cars.



The only scary part for ALMS is money. They are short of it and cheaper cars doesn't necessarily mean a cheaper racing season.

mylexicon said:

I forgot to mention that I do not think that Grand Am will overthrow ALMS. If ACO had not changed LMS competition, perhaps ALMS would have lost out as DMG continue to make alliances with DTM and the FIA, but ACO has written a stellar rules package (besides hybrid technology). The production-engine-based LMP2 cars are particularly good, not b/c I like production-based engines, but b/c it will allow a plethora of American engine tuners to make engines for ALMS competition. It was possible previously, but a production-based engine doesn't have much chance against factory-prepared racing cars.



The only scary part for ALMS is money. They are short of it and cheaper cars doesn't necessarily mean a cheaper racing season.

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The other scary part for the ALMS is the inept management. They let the ACO bully them into ruining the P2/P1 balance that made it so great during '07 and '08, rendering P2 cars nearly pointless, as teams spent almost as much as P1 teams to run for class wins. Then they chose to stick with the ACO's ruling that Audi's cars were not legal for Sebring in order to please Peugeot. Audi has supported thes eries since 2000 and actually sells cars here, making them a more likely candidate to actually campaign in the sieries in the future. Now they're talking with Grand-Am about allowing Zack brown's cars in.



Finally, one thing that needs to be fixed is the prototype homologation rules. That's right, under ACO rules, prototypes have to be homologated. In the P900/675 era, Rob Dyson and mechanic Pat Smith tested their Lola B01/60 numerous times, upgrading the car and molding it into a package that ran with and occassionally beat Audi's R8 prototype. They can't do that anymore. Only the maker of a chassis has the rights to homologate any upgrades. So the factories who build their own cars can upgrade all they want, but the privateers can't do a thing to their customer chassis. Doesn't take a Lex to figure out how that happened.