A wee thought..

I was just thinking tonight, rather than the whole twins, triples and fours rules for superbikes, with the GP guys now on diesels, why not make world supers a class for twins?

With Yamaha and Suzuki fielding four stroke fours in GP, why have similar engine configurations in Superbikes?

Or why not just downgrade Super to a world series like they did to sidecars, and like they have for 600s.

It just seems a bit daft to have pretend 4 stroke prototypes and real 4 stroke prototypes racing in seperate series.

Let battle commence!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 24 2007, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think production based racing has a place as a world championship and it should be kept. And the different rules making configurations "equal" is in theory good becasue it allows marques to showcase their roadgoing equipment as it is. In gp however everybody is forced to use the optimum format for the capacity limit (v or straight 4). The problem i find is that when a factory releases road bikes designed to replicate their gp bikes and then take them superbike racing, it looks like watered down gp.

Perhaps if Dorna bought the superbike series they could do something to stop this, or to make superbikes more different. The trouble is that superbike racing is designed for factories to showcase their best road going performance bikes. But since gp went four stroke all the roadgoing performance bikes are trying to emulate them, a problem that didn't exist in the past.

Maybe being forced to use twins isn't the right solution, but if the 1200 rule gets passed and Ducati start winning again perhaps honda will make themselfes a big twin and kick Ducatis arse as soon as the playing field is level (like they did with the rc51) . I would really like to see that happen agian, but i don't think it really will.

To be honest Tom, if Ducati, sorry all the manufacturers, are allowed to use 1200 cc twins, it shows how sad the series is.

Like you say, it should be a showcase for the production road based bikes, and I dont see Erik Buell crying that the rules are against him, but Ducati moan when they cant win, but can build a four for GP!!!!

It sucks, Its like KTM crying about the twins in the Dakar coz BMW and Yamaha were kicking their arse, but twins were ok when they were the only folk making twins for the Dakar!

I think the rules were cool in principal, but Ducati used them to their advantage, and exploited them.

A world championship loses credibility when it becomes a one make series, and like you say, the new road bikes are pretend GP bikes, so it makes Supers a wee bit obsolete.

Pete








<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Orrmate @ Feb 24 2007, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The new 800's I think look a lot less like road bikes, so I don't think it will be as much of a problem in the near future.

The two-stroke thing is a nice idea, but the whole point of superbikes is to be a production based series. And I can't see manufacturers going back to two strokes.

I think maybe we need to accept that two strokes are a thing of the past. 250s will soon become 600s, and I have a sneaky feeling that 125s might also switch to four strokes one day, possibly in the form of 400s. Its a shame but fate is looming.


Eh?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 24 2007, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know its MCN but they did report this week that Honda will be building a v4 superbike for the road with styling from the RCV212v, Ducati are also going ahead with a desmocedici for the road. So the idea of road bikes no longer looking like gp bikes is unlikely.

We have 250's till 2012 i think, after which i think they will become 400cc bikes, but thats not to relavant to this topic.

Pete i agree that Ducati have exploited the rules in a way that i don't think is doing the series any favours, but with gp being four stroke, superbikes may well become obsolete, they should do something to make it different.

Perhaps do all the races with pillions on the bikes too. That refelcts road riding for quite a few people. I think it'd be pretty hilarious.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 24 2007, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I know its MCN but they did report this week that Honda will be building a v4 superbike for the road with styling from the RCV212v, Ducati are also going ahead with a desmocedici for the road. So the idea of road bikes no longer looking like gp bikes is unlikely.

We have 250's till 2012 i think, after which i think they will become 400cc bikes, but thats not to relavant to this topic.

Pete i agree that Ducati have exploited the rules in a way that i don't think is doing the series any favours, but with gp being four stroke, superbikes may well become obsolete, they should do something to make it different.

Perhaps do all the races with pillions on the bikes too. That refelcts road riding for quite a few people. I think it'd be pretty hilarious.


Yeah, racing with wives on the back, (or when Nicky gets demoted, he can take a bloke, goat or something, each to his own, I'm open minded me) racing while being nagged would be ace!


Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 24 2007, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To be totally honest i can't think of any ideas to make superbike different without effectively ruining it. But i am not sure the superbikes really have an issue yet. The crowds are still huge and there is still plenty of sponsorship money. The issue is that this year looks like one of the most competative for ages, but there are only really about 6-8 top level guys out there, and thats weak.


Supers have never had any real depth of competition, its always 5 or so good guys, and a lot of also rans.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 24 2007, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good call, perhaps it should be cheaper to allow privateers to make a bigger impact. In fact, i think the bikes should be run closer to stock to allow the better of the road bikes to show through. Maybe the championship should be eliminated from a riders side, but be ran over a series of special events with different riders each weekendand have only a manufacturers competiton.

Or maybe run it like the A1gp car racing where teams represent their country or continent only, riding bikes that can only be from your continent of origin.


Yep, I think there has to be a line in the sand somewhere, and yes, get the bikes closer to standard. I just dont see what relevance it has now, and to be honest, it was only ever a poor relation to GP.

I just dont get why it is so high profile, could you imagine a series where everyone was driving proddy based cars trying to rival F1! Ecclestone would shoot them!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Feb 26 2007, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>True, Ducati have done some impressive things (I really like the desmo valves) but when you buy a Ducati you pay for prestige and trick suspension, brakes, ect. Japanese bikes may not have this level of one-off innovation, but they boast solid engineering bases, constantly using the best technologies to refine thier bikes. I like Ducatis (On some days of the week), but I dont belive that just because a bike is exotic, it automatically means it's a more refined work of engineering art that a more common machine.

Yeah, a few of my mates have them, and me an jumkie agree (does anyone believe that!!!!!!!!) that they are the biz, but they will break your heart. I have to say that the 851 and 888 are absolutely gorgeous, 2 of the best looking bikes ever.

But, voting with my wallet, I buy Japanese. (I'm not really into race reps anyway)

Any other old gits like me rememer the old Battle of the Twins series? where you had Dukes, Guzzis and even Harleys racing togetherThat was amazing stuff. The Sound of Singles series was great too, mad XT and DR based specials racing Ducati Supermonos.

I'd like to see more of that.

Pete