<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>Ezpeleta has seen TV audiences falling steadily, especially in Italy, and believes (correctly, I think) that this is largely a consequence of lopsided races, with Bridgestone riders dominating at most tracks and leaving Michelin runners behind,
Thats a long winded way of saying that Rossi is losing. Its not complicated, Rossi loses, Rossi "fans" switch off.
Thats a long winded way of saying that Rossi is losing. Its not complicated, Rossi loses, Rossi "fans" switch off.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Oct 20 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]96180[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Thats a long winded way of saying that Rossi is losing. Its not complicated, Rossi loses, Rossi "fans" switch off.
And the Ducati wins so Ducati fans switch off?
No, you got a point but it's more to it than that. Hayden fans, Pedrosa fans, racing fans, all want the best guys up tehre fighting for victory. After years of closer and closer racing this year has been really really bad, and even more so as WSB has been better than in a long time.
No wonder tv ratings go down.
Pedrosa, Hayden and Rossi all belong in the top together with Stoner. Except from these I can't see many others belonging there, melandri maybe. My point is that when you take away the competetivness for 3 out of 5 best riders, and the 4th riding a lease bike you can't expect close racing.
I think the whole thing is sad. I'd prefer Rossi to stay with michelin and improve togheter with michelin and the rule changes that wil come.
Thats a long winded way of saying that Rossi is losing. Its not complicated, Rossi loses, Rossi "fans" switch off.
And the Ducati wins so Ducati fans switch off?
No, you got a point but it's more to it than that. Hayden fans, Pedrosa fans, racing fans, all want the best guys up tehre fighting for victory. After years of closer and closer racing this year has been really really bad, and even more so as WSB has been better than in a long time.
No wonder tv ratings go down.
Pedrosa, Hayden and Rossi all belong in the top together with Stoner. Except from these I can't see many others belonging there, melandri maybe. My point is that when you take away the competetivness for 3 out of 5 best riders, and the 4th riding a lease bike you can't expect close racing.
I think the whole thing is sad. I'd prefer Rossi to stay with michelin and improve togheter with michelin and the rule changes that wil come.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frosty58 @ Oct 20 2007, 03:00 PM) [snapback]96179[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/41087/
interesting artical frosty, cheers, i loved the early history bit about dorna being run by crooks now in jail
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/41087/
interesting artical frosty, cheers, i loved the early history bit about dorna being run by crooks now in jail
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
Didn't know Dorna was pushing Bridgestone to supply Rossi.
It's an act like this that would really sour my attitude on MotoGp in general. When an acting body goes out of it's way to show preference for a rider than the whole legitimacy of the organization is in question.
( Philip Island 2006 Rossi passes Stoner under yellow flag)
Are they going to demand Yamaha run Ducati moters next?
It's an act like this that would really sour my attitude on MotoGp in general. When an acting body goes out of it's way to show preference for a rider than the whole legitimacy of the organization is in question.
( Philip Island 2006 Rossi passes Stoner under yellow flag)
Are they going to demand Yamaha run Ducati moters next?
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JohnnyKnockdown @ Oct 20 2007, 08:03 PM) [snapback]96246[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Didn't know Dorna was pushing Bridgestone to supply Rossi.
It's an act like this that would really sour my attitude on MotoGp in general. When an acting body goes out of it's way to show preference for a rider than the whole legitimacy of the organization is in question.
( Philip Island 2006 Rossi passes Stoner under yellow flag)
Are they going to demand Yamaha run Ducati moters next?
Dang dude,thats what the argument has been every since this whole spec tire thing was mentioned.It was obvious that there was a lot of back door dealing and positioning to get Rossi on the Stones.The spec tire was a ruse to get Bridgestone to supply the Dorna meal ticket to get back in the game.Their excuse was that Spain and Italy were tuning out but i guess Rossi has more fans in Spain than Pedrosa does since he is the only one getting the goodies.How transparent is that.
Didn't know Dorna was pushing Bridgestone to supply Rossi.
It's an act like this that would really sour my attitude on MotoGp in general. When an acting body goes out of it's way to show preference for a rider than the whole legitimacy of the organization is in question.
( Philip Island 2006 Rossi passes Stoner under yellow flag)
Are they going to demand Yamaha run Ducati moters next?
Dang dude,thats what the argument has been every since this whole spec tire thing was mentioned.It was obvious that there was a lot of back door dealing and positioning to get Rossi on the Stones.The spec tire was a ruse to get Bridgestone to supply the Dorna meal ticket to get back in the game.Their excuse was that Spain and Italy were tuning out but i guess Rossi has more fans in Spain than Pedrosa does since he is the only one getting the goodies.How transparent is that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JohnnyKnockdown @ Oct 21 2007, 01:03 AM) [snapback]96246[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Didn't know Dorna was pushing Bridgestone to supply Rossi.
It's an act like this that would really sour my attitude on MotoGp in general. When an acting body goes out of it's way to show preference for a rider than the whole legitimacy of the organization is in question.
( Philip Island 2006 Rossi passes Stoner under yellow flag)
Are they going to demand Yamaha run Ducati moters next?
Rossi = Viewers
its for the good of the sport.
Didn't know Dorna was pushing Bridgestone to supply Rossi.
It's an act like this that would really sour my attitude on MotoGp in general. When an acting body goes out of it's way to show preference for a rider than the whole legitimacy of the organization is in question.
( Philip Island 2006 Rossi passes Stoner under yellow flag)
Are they going to demand Yamaha run Ducati moters next?
Rossi = Viewers
its for the good of the sport.
Joined Jul 2007
5K Posts | 1K+
unda cheese
I realize it's good for the sport but it sucks for the pure fan.
The same sort of thing happened here with Michael Jordan for years.
He was the best player to ever play the game but was also allowed to do a lot more than any other player.
It was in the league's best interest for him to be in the championship year after year.
I always resented him for that. I knew he was the best but would have liked to see him win on equal footing.
If this deal goes through I will feel the same about Rossi.
The same sort of thing happened here with Michael Jordan for years.
He was the best player to ever play the game but was also allowed to do a lot more than any other player.
It was in the league's best interest for him to be in the championship year after year.
I always resented him for that. I knew he was the best but would have liked to see him win on equal footing.
If this deal goes through I will feel the same about Rossi.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Oct 20 2007, 11:49 PM) [snapback]96251[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rossi = Viewers
its for the good of the sport.
Without even looking im going to go out on a limb and say your favorite rider is, let me see,Rossi.I have come to the conclusion that a lot of Rossi fans could give a rats ... about the sport as long as their guy is winning.Saying that manipulating the sport, is good for the sport, is wrong on a bunch of different levels.I think they would be happy if he was the only bike on the circuit if it meant him winning.Try being a fan of the sport instead of being a jock sniffer.
Rossi = Viewers
its for the good of the sport.
Without even looking im going to go out on a limb and say your favorite rider is, let me see,Rossi.I have come to the conclusion that a lot of Rossi fans could give a rats ... about the sport as long as their guy is winning.Saying that manipulating the sport, is good for the sport, is wrong on a bunch of different levels.I think they would be happy if he was the only bike on the circuit if it meant him winning.Try being a fan of the sport instead of being a jock sniffer.
"Good for the sport" depends on who ou ask. If your idea of good for the sport is satisfying as many fans as possible to keep all the money and TV audiences involved, then yes its best to manipulate the championship to keep Rossi competative for as long as possible. For the true sports fan though the view might be slightly different.
It's something that bothers me about F1 is that the entertainment value is considered over the actual sporting value of most of the decisions made. But that's the nature of something so comercial, motogp is not the purists sport it once was.
It's something that bothers me about F1 is that the entertainment value is considered over the actual sporting value of most of the decisions made. But that's the nature of something so comercial, motogp is not the purists sport it once was.
Joined Jun 2007
3K Posts | 309+
UK
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Oct 21 2007, 10:34 AM) [snapback]96324[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It's something that bothers me about F1 is that the entertainment value is considered over the actual sporting value of most of the decisions made. But that's the nature of something so comercial, motogp is not the purists sport it once was.
At the end of day it is a business, and not a charity or club. If they lose viewers they lose revenue, and they lose fair weather viewers then us die hard fans suffer since its TV coverage wains....
MotoGP.com is doing a survey (proper marketing survey) about viewers, teams, riders, and branding. I would like encourge everyone on this forum to fill it in...Look on the right hand side of the webpage and the survey is part of the 'Get a Free MotoGP Action Video', banner.
It's something that bothers me about F1 is that the entertainment value is considered over the actual sporting value of most of the decisions made. But that's the nature of something so comercial, motogp is not the purists sport it once was.
At the end of day it is a business, and not a charity or club. If they lose viewers they lose revenue, and they lose fair weather viewers then us die hard fans suffer since its TV coverage wains....
MotoGP.com is doing a survey (proper marketing survey) about viewers, teams, riders, and branding. I would like encourge everyone on this forum to fill it in...Look on the right hand side of the webpage and the survey is part of the 'Get a Free MotoGP Action Video', banner.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MigsAngel @ Oct 21 2007, 05:21 PM) [snapback]96409[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
At the end of day it is a business, and not a charity or club. If they lose viewers they lose revenue, and they lose fair weather viewers then us die hard fans suffer since its TV coverage wains....
MotoGP.com is doing a survey (proper marketing survey) about viewers, teams, riders, and branding. I would like encourge everyone on this forum to fill it in...Look on the right hand side of the webpage and the survey is part of the 'Get a Free MotoGP Action Video', banner.
Well said Angel. It's business and that's all there is to it. MotoGP is comercial, without the money the sport wouldn't exsist and Dorna are caring for their baby, question is if they are doing it the best way.
It's straight out amusing to watch people here raving about that FU Rossi that gets the unfair advantage of swithcing tires. Relax guys, he is (possibly) switching tires, to the same tires the majority are using, not installing a supercharger. It's not unfair and it's not outrageous.
"It's an insult to those developing the stones for years" (like Stoner I presume? Bridgestone didn't have anything close to a championship contender until last year.)
"It's unfair against the remaining Michelin guys" ( well, first we have to see if it pays off at all, but if it does pay off, why would one that have the possibility to change want to stay with the second best because others can't change. What is unfair about that?)
That said, I strongly dislike the way Dorna are pushing Rossi on to Bridgestone because they want ratings up. That should have been decided between Rossi/Yamaha and Bridgestone. Also I feel sorry for Lorenzo as a Rookie and virtually a one rider team.
Peronally I'm not at all convinced this will be an advantage for Rossi. He will be alone among the Yamahas to use stones and development will suffer. On the other hand, can anyone pull that off it got to be him, but it is a high risk decition.
At the end of day it is a business, and not a charity or club. If they lose viewers they lose revenue, and they lose fair weather viewers then us die hard fans suffer since its TV coverage wains....
MotoGP.com is doing a survey (proper marketing survey) about viewers, teams, riders, and branding. I would like encourge everyone on this forum to fill it in...Look on the right hand side of the webpage and the survey is part of the 'Get a Free MotoGP Action Video', banner.
Well said Angel. It's business and that's all there is to it. MotoGP is comercial, without the money the sport wouldn't exsist and Dorna are caring for their baby, question is if they are doing it the best way.
It's straight out amusing to watch people here raving about that FU Rossi that gets the unfair advantage of swithcing tires. Relax guys, he is (possibly) switching tires, to the same tires the majority are using, not installing a supercharger. It's not unfair and it's not outrageous.
"It's an insult to those developing the stones for years" (like Stoner I presume? Bridgestone didn't have anything close to a championship contender until last year.)
"It's unfair against the remaining Michelin guys" ( well, first we have to see if it pays off at all, but if it does pay off, why would one that have the possibility to change want to stay with the second best because others can't change. What is unfair about that?)
That said, I strongly dislike the way Dorna are pushing Rossi on to Bridgestone because they want ratings up. That should have been decided between Rossi/Yamaha and Bridgestone. Also I feel sorry for Lorenzo as a Rookie and virtually a one rider team.
Peronally I'm not at all convinced this will be an advantage for Rossi. He will be alone among the Yamahas to use stones and development will suffer. On the other hand, can anyone pull that off it got to be him, but it is a high risk decition.
Joined Jun 2006
2K Posts | 20+
south wales UK
yamaha blame michelin but i blame them both, is the yam the only machine using the inline 4??? if so they need to get with the program and also sort out the rattling cos it looks like its got bad vibrations to me.
i think maybe one of michelins workers has fallen by accident into the compound mix and thats why there rubber is ......
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jazkat @ Oct 21 2007, 07:27 PM) [snapback]96428[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
well if rossi gets the stones i think maybe his first couple of races maybe a bit wonky but i think he will get it sorted pretty quick, i think he just wants a tire that can do more than 10-15 laps. there has been about 5 races this year where ive seen bits of rubber flying off rossi's tire on the tire cam, they just seem to fall apart, i think the yam is partly to blame the heap of crap seems to shake like hell and i think its harsh on the tire, so even on the yam i think the stones durability will help alot.
yamaha blame michelin but i blame them both, is the yam the only machine using the inline 4??? if so they need to get with the program and also sort out the rattling cos it looks like its got bad vibrations to me.
i think maybe one of michelins workers has fallen by accident into the compound mix and thats why there rubber is ......
I don't know about the bike. To me that chassi seems to be as good as you get them. Pair that with Rossi and and new profiled, better gripping tires and it just turns out that the strain on the tires got to much. That's why they developed the new, tougher inner structure. Hard to see that comming, and hardly the bikes fault. Everyone at Yamha says the chassi this year is excellent and a good chassi is typically not hard on the tires. Alltough that might be wrong at the point of development and grip levels they are at now. Also, the IL4 are known for less torque an peakier top end, that should speek in that bikes favor when it comes to tire wear. Anyway, I don't think you can blame the bike for the tire problems.
yamaha blame michelin but i blame them both, is the yam the only machine using the inline 4??? if so they need to get with the program and also sort out the rattling cos it looks like its got bad vibrations to me.
i think maybe one of michelins workers has fallen by accident into the compound mix and thats why there rubber is ......
I don't know about the bike. To me that chassi seems to be as good as you get them. Pair that with Rossi and and new profiled, better gripping tires and it just turns out that the strain on the tires got to much. That's why they developed the new, tougher inner structure. Hard to see that comming, and hardly the bikes fault. Everyone at Yamha says the chassi this year is excellent and a good chassi is typically not hard on the tires. Alltough that might be wrong at the point of development and grip levels they are at now. Also, the IL4 are known for less torque an peakier top end, that should speek in that bikes favor when it comes to tire wear. Anyway, I don't think you can blame the bike for the tire problems.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MigsAngel @ Oct 21 2007, 11:21 AM) [snapback]96409[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
At the end of day it is a business, and not a charity or club. If they lose viewers they lose revenue, and they lose fair weather viewers then us die hard fans suffer since its TV coverage wains....
MotoGP.com is doing a survey (proper marketing survey) about viewers, teams, riders, and branding. I would like encourge everyone on this forum to fill it in...Look on the right hand side of the webpage and the survey is part of the 'Get a Free MotoGP Action Video', banner.
I guess they can ride that horse till Rossi retires,then what.The bandwagon fan is gone when he retires and we will be right back to the real fans that follow the sport Rossi or no Rossi.I would rather read about the results if Tv means whoring the sport.Its a shame what it has become.
At the end of day it is a business, and not a charity or club. If they lose viewers they lose revenue, and they lose fair weather viewers then us die hard fans suffer since its TV coverage wains....
MotoGP.com is doing a survey (proper marketing survey) about viewers, teams, riders, and branding. I would like encourge everyone on this forum to fill it in...Look on the right hand side of the webpage and the survey is part of the 'Get a Free MotoGP Action Video', banner.
I guess they can ride that horse till Rossi retires,then what.The bandwagon fan is gone when he retires and we will be right back to the real fans that follow the sport Rossi or no Rossi.I would rather read about the results if Tv means whoring the sport.Its a shame what it has become.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Oct 22 2007, 01:38 AM) [snapback]96496[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I guess they can ride that horse till Rossi retires,then what.The bandwagon fan is gone when he retires and we will be right back to the real fans that follow the sport Rossi or no Rossi.I would rather read about the results if Tv means whoring the sport.Its a shame what it has become.
I guess both F1 and GP bike racing were started by and run for many years by groups of more or less amateur enthusiasts for the benefit of wider groups of enthusiasts. They eventually became so huge and complicated they needed businessmen to run them. The problem to me is that they are both now more or less owned by small groups of businessmen(or one small businessman in the case of F1 for several decades). In the long term if the enthusiasts feel they no longer have some degree of ownership of the sports, and that profit for a very small number of people is the paramount consideration, the goose that laid the golden egg will have been killed.
I guess they can ride that horse till Rossi retires,then what.The bandwagon fan is gone when he retires and we will be right back to the real fans that follow the sport Rossi or no Rossi.I would rather read about the results if Tv means whoring the sport.Its a shame what it has become.
I guess both F1 and GP bike racing were started by and run for many years by groups of more or less amateur enthusiasts for the benefit of wider groups of enthusiasts. They eventually became so huge and complicated they needed businessmen to run them. The problem to me is that they are both now more or less owned by small groups of businessmen(or one small businessman in the case of F1 for several decades). In the long term if the enthusiasts feel they no longer have some degree of ownership of the sports, and that profit for a very small number of people is the paramount consideration, the goose that laid the golden egg will have been killed.
Anyone else hear the rumor that the WWF will take over MotoGP next year?
I heard they have been bought in as to manufactor a new championship, to help the TV ratings for Italian and Spanish fans.
So much for working hard, and the best package wining, still up to 2 years ago the hard working teams and riders won the championship.
As long as it keeps the fans happy that is important.
It's a wonder MotoGP/500cc ever survived between the early 70's and late 90's
I heard they have been bought in as to manufactor a new championship, to help the TV ratings for Italian and Spanish fans.
So much for working hard, and the best package wining, still up to 2 years ago the hard working teams and riders won the championship.
As long as it keeps the fans happy that is important.
It's a wonder MotoGP/500cc ever survived between the early 70's and late 90's
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JohnnyKnockdown @ Oct 21 2007, 06:23 AM) [snapback]96252[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I realize it's good for the sport but it sucks for the pure fan.
..................
Look here, is it good for the sport that Bridgestone refuses to supply tires to Honda and Yamaha, keeping only Ducati, Suzuki and Kawa on the best rubber ? (they do not give the best stuff to the satellite teams)
Since this is not a tire championship, each tire manufacturer should be open to supply those who want their goods. Michelin and Stone compete, the better one gets the orders and delivers the goods. That would be the ideal situation...
But it is not like that, so one can even understand Ezpeleta's ultimatum. Rather than having Honda and Yamaha with Pedrosa and Rossi left out of the game, a spec tire rule could be the lesser evil (even if regrettable).
Now, the latest situation seems like a compromise in the making. Honda seems to prefer to stick with Michelin after all, against Pedrosa's will, maybe hoping Michelin can recover and then they can then enjoy a privileged status with the French company.
Rossi is fed up with Michelin after two years of problems, and wants a switch. He has the power to push it through, probably, just for himself. We'll see. Each one should be free to choose the tires they prefer. Switching to the Stones is a big gamble for Rossi, if he prefers to bet on that why shouldnt he be allowed?
I realize it's good for the sport but it sucks for the pure fan.
..................
Look here, is it good for the sport that Bridgestone refuses to supply tires to Honda and Yamaha, keeping only Ducati, Suzuki and Kawa on the best rubber ? (they do not give the best stuff to the satellite teams)
Since this is not a tire championship, each tire manufacturer should be open to supply those who want their goods. Michelin and Stone compete, the better one gets the orders and delivers the goods. That would be the ideal situation...
But it is not like that, so one can even understand Ezpeleta's ultimatum. Rather than having Honda and Yamaha with Pedrosa and Rossi left out of the game, a spec tire rule could be the lesser evil (even if regrettable).
Now, the latest situation seems like a compromise in the making. Honda seems to prefer to stick with Michelin after all, against Pedrosa's will, maybe hoping Michelin can recover and then they can then enjoy a privileged status with the French company.
Rossi is fed up with Michelin after two years of problems, and wants a switch. He has the power to push it through, probably, just for himself. We'll see. Each one should be free to choose the tires they prefer. Switching to the Stones is a big gamble for Rossi, if he prefers to bet on that why shouldnt he be allowed?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(J4rn0 @ Oct 23 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]96662[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Switching to the Stones is a big gamble for Rossi, if he prefers to bet on that why shouldnt he be allowed?
Because Bridgestone said they don't want to supply him with tyres.
Switching to the Stones is a big gamble for Rossi, if he prefers to bet on that why shouldnt he be allowed?
Because Bridgestone said they don't want to supply him with tyres.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Oct 23 2007, 11:26 AM) [snapback]96669[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Because Bridgestone said they don't want to supply him with tyres.
and i wonder why that is ! nothing to do with ducati then ?
Because Bridgestone said they don't want to supply him with tyres.
and i wonder why that is ! nothing to do with ducati then ?
