Joined Feb 2007
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Tennessee
Joined Aug 2008
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Thailand
Some interesting stuff there. "[Harald] Bartol accused Carmelo Ezpeleta and Dorna of lying to them." is a classic. Can't agree that death is coming. Fifteen bikes next year won't be a problem and the transition to 600s will be a good thing, putting the class smack dab on the target for the largest street sportbike demographic. As mentioned on another thread, lets see some European manufacturers start crankin' out 600cc engineering.
Joined Jul 2008
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Tweed Valley Australia
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Oct 19 2008, 03:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Some interesting stuff there. "[Harald] Bartol accused Carmelo Ezpeleta and Dorna of lying to them." is a classic. Can't agree that death is coming. Fifteen bikes next year won't be a problem and the transition to 600s will be a good thing, putting the class smack dab on the target for the largest street sportbike demographic. As mentioned on another thread, lets see some European manufacturers start crankin' out 600cc engineering.
I'm telling you, you heard it here first, just because Europe doesn't do a 600 doesn't mean they won't. They changed to 800's because Honda wanted it and looked what happened.
Ezy hasn’t read Nash’s theorem. The market place works not because your competitor will do what he always has, because he will adapt and compete as well.
Or - man plans and God laughs.
I'm telling you, you heard it here first, just because Europe doesn't do a 600 doesn't mean they won't. They changed to 800's because Honda wanted it and looked what happened.
Ezy hasn’t read Nash’s theorem. The market place works not because your competitor will do what he always has, because he will adapt and compete as well.
Or - man plans and God laughs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>the sad worldwide demise of the two stroke engine
What world are these toolbelts living in? The 2-stroke has been run out of the developed world. So the Japanese are eager to dump them b/c they can't make high tech, high margin 2 strokes for the developing world.
The technology is still very abundant and important throughout most of the world. I'm happy to see the new 600s, but the lies the MSMA and Dorna are feeding to the motorcycling public about 2 stroke technology are sickening.
Simple, cheap, reliable technology is still needed in many countries around the globe. Where the hell are you going to get a valve adjustment in the middle of Africa?
The I in FIM does still stand for international, right? Maybe they should change it to FGM for Federation G8 of Motorcycling
What world are these toolbelts living in? The 2-stroke has been run out of the developed world. So the Japanese are eager to dump them b/c they can't make high tech, high margin 2 strokes for the developing world.
The technology is still very abundant and important throughout most of the world. I'm happy to see the new 600s, but the lies the MSMA and Dorna are feeding to the motorcycling public about 2 stroke technology are sickening.
Simple, cheap, reliable technology is still needed in many countries around the globe. Where the hell are you going to get a valve adjustment in the middle of Africa?
The I in FIM does still stand for international, right? Maybe they should change it to FGM for Federation G8 of Motorcycling
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 19 2008, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What world are these toolbelts living in? The 2-stroke has been run out of the developed world. So the Japanese are eager to dump them b/c they can't make high tech, high margin 2 strokes for the developing world.
The technology is still very abundant and important throughout most of the world. I'm happy to see the new 600s, but the lies the MSMA and Dorna are feeding to the motorcycling public about 2 stroke technology are sickening.
Simple, cheap, reliable technology is still needed in many countries around the globe. Where the hell are you going to get a valve adjustment in the middle of Africa?
The I in FIM does still stand for international, right? Maybe they should change it to FGM for Federation G8 of Motorcycling
I think they were mourning the "sad worldwide demise of the two stroke engine", as you are. Still love my two strokes - bike, outboard, chainsaw. If the west hadn't knee ...... there was viable technology to clean up two stokes and keep most of their power.
The technology is still very abundant and important throughout most of the world. I'm happy to see the new 600s, but the lies the MSMA and Dorna are feeding to the motorcycling public about 2 stroke technology are sickening.
Simple, cheap, reliable technology is still needed in many countries around the globe. Where the hell are you going to get a valve adjustment in the middle of Africa?
The I in FIM does still stand for international, right? Maybe they should change it to FGM for Federation G8 of Motorcycling
I think they were mourning the "sad worldwide demise of the two stroke engine", as you are. Still love my two strokes - bike, outboard, chainsaw. If the west hadn't knee ...... there was viable technology to clean up two stokes and keep most of their power.
It says 'Simoncelli and Bautista could be out of a ride for 09' (not exact quote)
Jules and Tobes said on Eurosport that they both had comfirmed they're riding in 250 next year?
Its quite sad anyway, I've always loved the 250 class.
Jules and Tobes said on Eurosport that they both had comfirmed they're riding in 250 next year?
Its quite sad anyway, I've always loved the 250 class.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Checa_7 @ Oct 20 2008, 06:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It says 'Simoncelli and Bautista could be out of a ride for 09' (not exact quote)
Jules and Tobes said on Eurosport that they both had comfirmed they're riding in 250 next year?Them riding in 250s kinda requires that the class runs next year, you know.
Jules and Tobes said on Eurosport that they both had comfirmed they're riding in 250 next year?Them riding in 250s kinda requires that the class runs next year, you know.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 18 2008, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2008/10/...ar_in_2009.html
I like reading Kropotkin's articles, but this one seems to be a bunch of alarmism. Sure we are seeing signs of the demise of the 250 and perhaps earlier then expected, but I doubt it is going to be as early as next year. He even said himself in the article that many more of the typical teams are expected to announce soon, filling the grid to the required amount.
I like reading Kropotkin's articles, but this one seems to be a bunch of alarmism. Sure we are seeing signs of the demise of the 250 and perhaps earlier then expected, but I doubt it is going to be as early as next year. He even said himself in the article that many more of the typical teams are expected to announce soon, filling the grid to the required amount.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Oct 19 2008, 04:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think they were mourning the "sad worldwide demise of the two stroke engine", as you are. Still love my two strokes - bike, outboard, chainsaw. If the west hadn't knee ...... there was viable technology to clean up two stokes and keep most of their power.
Yep. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that direct injection technology would soon allow 2 stroke engines to remain valveless while separating the fuel from the lubricant. Unfortunately, this was a bridge too far for our politicians.
Here is a link everyone should read. It's about Orbital's direct injection system for 2 strokes. Page 2 is quite good.
Link
Yep. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that direct injection technology would soon allow 2 stroke engines to remain valveless while separating the fuel from the lubricant. Unfortunately, this was a bridge too far for our politicians.
Here is a link everyone should read. It's about Orbital's direct injection system for 2 strokes. Page 2 is quite good.
Link
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 22 2008, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yep. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that direct injection technology would soon allow 2 stroke engines to remain valveless while separating the fuel from the lubricant. Unfortunately, this was a bridge too far for our politicians.
Here is a link everyone should read. It's about Orbital's direct injection system for 2 strokes. Page 2 is quite good.
Link
Sureley the oil is still going to be burnt off though just as it always has been? How significant are the emissions from that? Also, if two strokes could be made within reasonable emission levels, would the power characteristics and engine behaviour be as desirable as a 4 stroke?
Here is a link everyone should read. It's about Orbital's direct injection system for 2 strokes. Page 2 is quite good.
Link
Sureley the oil is still going to be burnt off though just as it always has been? How significant are the emissions from that? Also, if two strokes could be made within reasonable emission levels, would the power characteristics and engine behaviour be as desirable as a 4 stroke?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Oct 22 2008, 01:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sureley the oil is still going to be burnt off though just as it always has been? How significant are the emissions from that? Also, if two strokes could be made within reasonable emission levels, would the power characteristics and engine behaviour be as desirable as a 4 stroke?
No not yet. 2 strokes have always had a narrow rpm range for effective operation because they have airflow problems.
Adoption of forced induction will fix that in time.
Why would they need to continue to burn oil? Now that injection can occur without pressure from the crank, there is no need to put lubrication in the fuel. Although, I think some of the modern direct injection 2 strokes still require some additives to lubricate the injectors, but the new lubricants burn far cleaner than 2 stroke oil and not nearly as much is required for lubrication.
Furthermore, I would like to see 2 strokes remain valveless but now that manufacturers have successfully pioneered engine firing after top dead center there is a possibility to have a valved two stroke with very mild forced induction.
Such technologies would eliminate the inefficient energy losses from the empty stroke.
No not yet. 2 strokes have always had a narrow rpm range for effective operation because they have airflow problems.
Adoption of forced induction will fix that in time.
Why would they need to continue to burn oil? Now that injection can occur without pressure from the crank, there is no need to put lubrication in the fuel. Although, I think some of the modern direct injection 2 strokes still require some additives to lubricate the injectors, but the new lubricants burn far cleaner than 2 stroke oil and not nearly as much is required for lubrication.
Furthermore, I would like to see 2 strokes remain valveless but now that manufacturers have successfully pioneered engine firing after top dead center there is a possibility to have a valved two stroke with very mild forced induction.
Such technologies would eliminate the inefficient energy losses from the empty stroke.
I`m ready to welcome the 600`s,just hope its not a hash up and with Norton making noises about competing its looking exciting....................so far.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Oct 21 2008, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>trust me... dorna will not let the 250s die... no way no how. the grid will be full.
i hope you are right!
we need the 250s!
i hope you are right!
we need the 250s!
will the dropping of associated costs of running the 250s release some funding for KTM's RC8 WSB project?
will they race that bike sooner now that there is less financial burden on their race dept?
i really want to see KTM in WSB, see what they can do there.
will they race that bike sooner now that there is less financial burden on their race dept?
i really want to see KTM in WSB, see what they can do there.
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