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1000's possible for 2011

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Nov 26 2009, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>A 1000cc prototype with 23-24 liters of fuel would not nned to be a super-sophisticated engine. No use running into complications, even with spring valves and "ordinary" materials it would produce enough power to make technological escalations useless.

This also means many would be able to rent engines and maintain them, as KR was doing with Honda. I do not see much use in having stock-derived units at that point. Many smaller manufacturers could also enter the MotoGP arena developing entire bikes, engine included.

A limitation in the processing power of the ECUs would also be desirable and could reinforce this scenario. Less costs, more competition, more teams and bikes on the grid
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Some very bright ideas there, and I agree. I think it is a foregone conclusion that there will be a capacity increase, and although I could see a single manufacturer supplying a control plant to all the entire grid, and I very much disagree that the engines will be one off prototypes. Personally, I see this going in very much the same way as the old Formula One class which preceded Superbike on short circuit racing, and was then adopted during the late eighties by the road racing season. In other words, a production engine housed in a prototype frame; - Moto 2 is the harbringer of this, and to me - where the big class is concerned, this would not constitute Grand Prix Motorcycle racing, as many would perceive and desire it to be. You can also begin to logically envisage how the vision of the amalgamation between Superbike and Moto GP into one single championship (that Francis Batta was aluding to in the press this week), could in fact come to pass.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Nov 28 2009, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Some very bright ideas there, and I agree. I think it is a foregone conclusion that there will be a capacity increase, and although I could see a single manufacturer supplying a control plant to all the entire grid, and I very much disagree that the engines will be one off prototypes. Personally, I see this going in very much the same way as the old Formula One class which preceded Superbike on short circuit racing, and was then adopted during the late eighties by the road racing season. In other words, a production engine housed in a prototype frame; - Moto 2 is the harbringer of this, and to me - where the big class is concerned, this would not constitute Grand Prix Motorcycle racing, as many would perceive and desire it to be. You can also begin to logically envisage how the vision of the amalgamation between Superbike and Moto GP into one single championship (that Francis Batta was aluding to in the press this week), could in fact come to pass.

Do you have a link to the Batta remarks?

I'm curious to hear any remarks about unification b/c it seems like an impossible task. Not only would they have to reconcile IMS and Dorna, but also the manufacturers who prefer WSBK to GP, and the differences between the equipment the OEMs sell and the equipment they race.

I'm intrigued.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Nov 28 2009, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do you have a link to the Batta remarks?

I'm curious to hear any remarks about unification b/c it seems like an impossible task. Not only would they have to reconcile IMS and Dorna, but also the manufacturers who prefer WSBK to GP, and the differences between the equipment the OEMs sell and the equipment they race.

I'm intrigued.
Seeing as it's you Lex, and you asked nicely...

It was in an interview with fat man in last weeks MCN. Can't find it on MCN online although it is neatly summarised here on an Aprilia forum:

Francis Fatter

While browsing came accross Ducati's view of this, from early '09, through the eyes of Domenicali:

link
 
Enjoy next year. The last year of MotoGP. Next, the Heinz 57 cup! Cripes how...boring.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Nov 28 2009, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Enjoy next year. The last year of MotoGP. Next, the Heinz 57 cup! Cripes how...boring.

Progress at any cost has finally imploded and given way to sensibility. Quite apropos if you're an American.

I agree with Niel Spalding's sensible suggestions like limiting revs, banning pneumatic valves, and raising the minimum weight. If the manufacturers want MotoGP to have relevance to the production market, they need to ban technologies that aren't relevant to the production market.

I also believe that WSBK is a PRODUCTION contest first and foremost. The MSMA and the FIM should create a sport that actually reflect the challenges associated with mass production. They should add rules about interchangeable parts and restrict exotics like titanium. Maybe even stipulate that certain parts have to remain unchanged for a certain period of time. For instance, require the manufacturers to use 1 engine block (bore can vary), 1 camshaft, and 1 connecting rod design for all of their WSBK activities. Construct the class rules such that Supersport is bore stroke limited to 1.4:1 while 800cc WSBK is 1.6:1. An 800cc bike would basically be a 10mm overbored 600cc supersport. I'm not suggesting that idea specifically, but those types of ideas that are designed around the challenges of the production market.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Nov 29 2009, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I also believe that WSBK is a PRODUCTION contest first and foremost.
Then simply rename the Superstock class WSBk, where the main technical obstacle to riders and team alike come race day would be the possibility of mislaying your ignition key.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Nov 29 2009, 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Then simply rename the Superstock class WSBk, where the main technical obstacle to riders and team alike come race day would be the possibility of mislaying your ignition key.

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I'm not against heavily modified bikes, I'm just advocating a new type of sport that has more engineering relevance to what goes on at the factory. At the very least, I'd like them to continue allowing high compression pistons even if they are only made from aluminum.

Thanks for links.
 
You are okay with banning technical evolution though...well that is MotoGp. So if free technical evolution fully devoid of any meaning other than going faster around a racetrack than was ever done before is over then MotoGp is over. And that's fine if no one that can afford to race the thoroughbred motorcycle wants to but just don't call it MotoGp, it is not MotoGp. It will be a homogenization class of a bunch of fast bikes coming from anywhere far less than the best of what could be whatever you call that. And really who would care what it is called.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Nov 30 2009, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are okay with banning technical evolution though...well that is MotoGp. So if free technical evolution fully devoid of any meaning other than going faster around a racetrack than was ever done before is over then MotoGp is over. And that's fine if no one that can afford to race the thoroughbred motorcycle wants to but just don't call it MotoGp, it is not MotoGp. It will be a homogenization class of a bunch of fast bikes coming from anywhere far less than the best of what could be whatever you call that. And really who would care what it is called.

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Don't you think you're being a bit dramatic?

Examine the rule book. Oval pistons are banned, but pneumatic valves are allowed.
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The bikes wheelie everywhere (even the 800s) yet no one uses counter rotating twin cranks like Yamaha did back in the 1980s.
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Carbon brakes, but no speed sensitive electronic dampening.
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22L of fuel is illegal
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If they get rid of the F1/NASA technology and they get back to the business of building road-relevant prototypes, maybe real prototyping will return. Besides, what do the manufacturers make besides the engine and the frame? Tires are from Bridgestone. Brakes are from Brembo. Suspension is from Ohlins. Wheels are Marchesini. Chains are outsourced. Clutches are probably outsourced. Electronic equipment is outsourced. Lubricants are outsourced. Fuel is outsourced.

The advertisers (Dorna) have sunk their claws into you. Fight the propaganda and appreciate the sport for what it really is. A group of people who are obsessed with engineering and speed. They'd race Radio Flyers down a mountain if that was all they had.
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Forget the marketing BS. The beauty of the sport is engineering creativity and hard racing. When the costs explode, everyone puckers. Keep the prices reasonable.
 

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