- Joined
- Oct 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,802
- Location
- Tuscany, Italy
They are dead as they were, but updated designs of the 500s would give the 800 something to worry about.
Help Support MotoGP Forum:
They are dead as they were, but updated designs of the 500s would give the 800 something to worry about.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2006
- Messages
- 11,345
- Location
- Texas
I dont think so..even some of the top race engineers in 2001 had said the 500 was as good as it would ever get.. development on it was maxed out..sure you can update electronics, parts, materials, frames whatever..but the engines were as good as they could get..they would never be able to get the HP and Torque out if it like the could off the 990.
Heck they can leave the 800cc change the fuel limits and please remove the ABS, and TC, these are premier riders they shouldn't need it.
Honestly as a track rider Im baffled, this whole system for this stuff is backwards. You've got riders like Rossi out there that bascially have an easier machine to ride than I do. I know, flame away at me for stating that but........ Look these guys are the best of the best, the elite, yet I cant get my hands on TC barely ABS, Im out trashing my body at the track wondering when the hell this stuff is coming down to a club level, apparently its not going to, they've had it for years at several different levels. So take it away from MotoGP, I guess I don't need it, so why should they have it? I'd like to have the electronics, airbag suits, etc. But I dont. I want them to race how I do, a pure race WOT with spinning up wheels and the real top class RIDERS out front. IF I wanted an electronics race I flip on my PS3, geez. Let WSBK run electronics.
Stoner was right to say the leauge is for ......., thats how DORNA wants it I guess, sad. I want the bike/rider combo to win not Bike + Electroincs - rider to win. I bet the field would look a whole lot different if this happened.
Honestly as a track rider Im baffled, this whole system for this stuff is backwards. You've got riders like Rossi out there that bascially have an easier machine to ride than I do. I know, flame away at me for stating that but........ Look these guys are the best of the best, the elite, yet I cant get my hands on TC barely ABS, Im out trashing my body at the track wondering when the hell this stuff is coming down to a club level, apparently its not going to, they've had it for years at several different levels. So take it away from MotoGP, I guess I don't need it, so why should they have it? I'd like to have the electronics, airbag suits, etc. But I dont. I want them to race how I do, a pure race WOT with spinning up wheels and the real top class RIDERS out front. IF I wanted an electronics race I flip on my PS3, geez. Let WSBK run electronics.
Stoner was right to say the leauge is for ......., thats how DORNA wants it I guess, sad. I want the bike/rider combo to win not Bike + Electroincs - rider to win. I bet the field would look a whole lot different if this happened.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2006
- Messages
- 11,345
- Location
- Texas
- Joined
- May 13, 2009
- Messages
- 6,313
- Location
- Shovel's Club
Why do you suggest that these bikes are easy to ride? If they were easy then riders would come in and run at the front. All evidence suggests that they are probably the most difficult bikes to ride fast. After all this is all about who can ride the fastest around a trackfor 22 or so laps. I would say the 990's were the easiest bikes to ride because riders who have proved themselves unable to ride an 800 were challenging for wins on a 990.
Sure 500's may have been more dangerous but they were not as fast as the 800's. I don't remember the 990's being particularly dangerous bikes to ride and I am pretty sure that not one lap record is held by a 990.
The reason 990's produced good racing was because they were easy to ride. Man's bikes? Not to sure about that. If 800's are ....... bikes then who has won the most titles on an 800? He must be the lead ..... then!
Would the old 990 bikes meet the tech regulations under the new formula re bore size etc.
If I was one of the manufacturers, I would wheel out the old 990 engine as a starting point. They were obviously well advanced in their development. Bolt a 990 engine in to a current package. The dimensions and weight of a 990 engine would not be much different to an 800.
If I was one of the manufacturers, I would wheel out the old 990 engine as a starting point. They were obviously well advanced in their development. Bolt a 990 engine in to a current package. The dimensions and weight of a 990 engine would not be much different to an 800.
+ 1
Its not the capacity that is the problem.
Change to the 1000cc formula, and the same teams will be at the front. Change the capacity to 600 and the same guys will be at the front, winning by the same margins.
If anythng, I think the change in bikes will work against making closer racing. Everyone will start from scratch again. The big teams will work out the problems fastest, because they have the best resources, and the smaller teams will struggle for a while.
Loosers will be teams like LCR who are now getting their .... together on the 800.
Flame away, but I think they should leave the 800cc bikes.
Reduce the electronics, increase the fuel limit.
To reduce electronics would it be as simple as reducing the number of sensors they are allowed. I recall an interview by one of the riders who said something along the lines of "there are sensors all over these bikes". Makes sense to me that if you reduce the things they can monitor then you reduce their ability to alter things as they run.
None of the 990s would be legal. All of them were higher than 81mm (estimated by peak revs) and the Honda was a V5.
If the 990s are ever going to come back, the formula will have to be rev-limited at 1000cc.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2006
- Messages
- 11,345
- Location
- Texas
anyone with half a brain knows 990-1000cc would be ftw..but they'll even .... that up with ........ rules..
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2007
- Messages
- 9,515
- Location
- Norah Head
anyone with half a brain knows 990-1000cc would be ftw..but they'll even .... that up with ........ rules..
Get an R8 and you'll be fine Curve
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2006
- Messages
- 11,345
- Location
- Texas
It's hard to get rid of the sensors b/c they are the research part of R&D. Some of them feed information into other onboard systems, but it's not so easy to separate the good from the bad. For instance, suspension travel feeds/fed into the wheelie control programs, but those sensors are also the only way Ohlins and the teams can get the data they need for development and setup. It's a tough situation.
@ Tikki. I also agree that adding fuel would make major improvements regardless of the displacement. However, adding fuel to the 800s could actually cause a cost explosion. The engines would easily be capable of revving to 20,000+rpm which would send the companies scrambling to improve reliability and airflow so they could unlock the power. If they add fuel to the 800s, I still think they would need to rev limit or bore limit the bikes to stop costs from exploding in F1 fashion. Usable power probably wouldn't be enough to curtail the arms race b/c most of the bikes already have the bore stroke ratios to reach 20,000rpm. The electronics would sort out power delivery.
It would be amazing to behold, and it would be even more expensive than it is now, imo.
yes and the same guy also claimed when beaten- very well -at laguna 08 it was 'too dangerous!' 'and had never experienced racing (a spanking!) like this in all his years' so we can't take much from that at all.
Of course the riders, the manufacturers, the teams and the majority of fans all agree that 800's aren't working. Economics, market relevance, spectator satisfaction and safety are just a few of the major factors where the format has fallen short of it's intended target, so to speak. The move back to 1000cc is mostly popular, but without clarification of the electronics omission list it's hard to determine at this stage if they will be any better. I believe they will be because of potential increases in torque, which will give the more skilled riders options on racing line which they currently don't have. It will also, depending on how choked they are, hopefully put stop to the 'twist and hope the CPU adjusts' generation of new riders we have.
Fuel management systems today are also disturbing and highly unecessary, removing this profoundly ridiculous fuel limit regulation is the key to the new formats success. If the CPU is deciding that there isn't enough fuel therefore reducing power to finish, then we aren't really watching riders race to their full abilities on the fastest racing motorcycles on earth at all. We are watching a series of technical engineering experiments to conform with a restriction on the key element to the internal combustion engines function, which in itself IMO, is as far away from prototype engineering as possible.
Anyone who claims that the 800cc format is more exciting and successful than the 500's or 990's is thankfully in a very moronic minority and not influencing the future of the sport.
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2007
- Messages
- 9,515
- Location
- Norah Head
Well i was being nice, im not really wondering at all, but to tell the truth i generally don't pay attention to who posted what. I can only think of 5 regulars on here whos posts i always register as authored by them.
