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1000cc bikes and testing

L8Braker

L8Braker

Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 34+
Tar Heel State
Ok, so with all the talk of 1000 cc bikes on the horizon, do you think any changes to testing or engine rules will be made? How much pull does Rossi have, if he goes to Ducati, you know he will need more testing and more engines to compete for a championship.
 
L8Braker said:
Ok, so with all the talk of 1000 cc bikes on the horizon, do you think any changes to testing or engine rules will be made? How much pull does Rossi have, if he goes to Ducati, you know he will need more testing and more engines to compete for a championship.
Click to expand...



Maybe he will get Dorna to threaten Yamaha with a Control Bike ruling if they don't release him from his contract and let him finish the season on a Ducati so he is ready for next year!



On a serious note I think we can definitely expect some changes to testing rules if Rossi goes to Ducati. Of course we will be told it is for safety purposes. Wonder if Yamaha will release him from his contract so he can test the Ducati straight after the last race.
 
I got the impression that most factory teams would run 800's or close to it rather than 1000cc bikes as they are deemed obsolete and not the "peak performance capacity" ?



Isn't the 1,000's there to entice possible new teams getting stock ( off the retail shelf ) engines to use as a base to begin with?



I also note that Yamaha are releasing an R8 are they not, which makes another "peak performance capacity" engine available to possible teams.



Lets face it if old 1,000cc lumps don't compete, then I can't see it being any more than a few teams having an easier time ( than say folk like Ilmor did ) in accessing engines.
 
BarryMachine said:
I got the impression that most factory teams would run 800's or close to it rather than 1000cc bikes as they are deemed obsolete and not the "peak performance capacity" ?



Isn't the 1,000's there to entice possible new teams getting stock ( off the retail shelf ) engines to use as a base to begin with?



I also note that Yamaha are releasing an R8 are they not, which makes another "peak performance capacity" engine available to possible teams.



Lets face it if old 1,000cc lumps don't compete, then I can't see it being any more than a few teams having an easier time ( than say folk like Ilmor did ) in accessing engines.
Click to expand...



I am personally convinced that all manufacturers will (probably already are) building brand new 1000cc prototypes under the new rules. 1000cc will not be restricted to ex-stock only: they may be pure proto as long as they conform to certain restrictions (81mm pistons and 21 liters fuel) on top of the usual engine limit. Stock derivatives will not have such strict fuel limitations, and also will be permitted to change engines more often.



Even with those limitations, a 1000cc prototype will be quite a match for the 800cc, and will probably suit a wider range of riders better. I like it and only hope they implement the regulation already in 2011 -- why wait one more year, what for...
<
 
Filippo Preziosi has said ducati may run a 900cc or a 930cc as 1000cc may not be the best option but nothing set in stone yet



story was out 2 months ago
 
jazkat said:
Filippo Preziosi has said ducati may run a 900cc or a 930cc as 1000cc may not be the best option but nothing set in stone yet



story was out 2 months ago
Click to expand...



And JB was saying if anything they should be going smaller than 800's in the MGP class.
 
BarryMachine said:
And JB was saying if anything they should be going smaller than 800's in the MGP class.
Click to expand...

I read that somewhere recently, you never know what's going to come out of JB's mouth. I personally like the Moto2 formula and hope they go 450 for Moto3, but MotoGP should be unlimited cc's with no electronics, but I guess that would be too dangerous, not that the 800's haven't put their fair share of guys on the deck this year.
 
BarryMachine said:
I got the impression that most factory teams would run 800's or close to it rather than 1000cc bikes as they are deemed obsolete and not the "peak performance capacity" ?



Isn't the 1,000's there to entice possible new teams getting stock ( off the retail shelf ) engines to use as a base to begin with?



I also note that Yamaha are releasing an R8 are they not, which makes another "peak performance capacity" engine available to possible teams.



Lets face it if old 1,000cc lumps don't compete, then I can't see it being any more than a few teams having an easier time ( than say folk like Ilmor did ) in accessing engines.
Click to expand...



800s are ....... gay worthless pointless boring machines..1000s is where its at..big boy bikes
<
It's the perfect displacement unless .... on by stupid rules that i'm sure DORNknob will implement
<
 
xx CURVE xx said:
800s are ....... gay worthless pointless boring machines..1000s is where its at..big boy bikes
<
It's the perfect displacement unless .... on by stupid rules that i'm sure DORNknob will implement
<
Click to expand...



........, why didn't you pick say 1,800cc curve, they are obsolete too
<




They only ever need a capacity that can beat a superbike, thats GP
<




this talk of 1,000cc bikes has its "mysticism" based strongly only in a certain "wanabe" element. Just because you have a "thou" don't make you more like a GP rider.
<




Its becoming like all the "Busa" riders out there, plonking around town being the fastest machine in existence, a "Busa" takes them above the mere level of "manliness" achieved with a "thou" or tiddly GP bike!!
<
<
<


In the end they never seem to get there that fast
<




Reminds me ofthe old days of 750 triples when the 500's were "it", the 750 triple riders all thought 500's were "piddly". Ignoring the fact a GP bike was somewhat more a refined speed machine than their rather "agricultural" 750 plonkers.
<
 
Maybe the factories are looking for the best of two worlds.Smaller moving parts,better output and durabillity-efficiency with the limited bore.(900/930 or whatever)

I don't think the big factories will want to tell this early what they will do.

And i don't understand if they would want to have different engines giving very different tirewear and handling i satelite teams.

Maybe only Honda,i don't know.

It would be fun to see many different solutions competing but i don't think there will be.Just my guess.
 
BarryMachine said:
........, why didn't you pick say 1,800cc curve, they are obsolete too
<




They only ever need a capacity that can beat a superbike, thats GP
<




this talk of 1,000cc bikes has its "mysticism" based strongly only in a certain "wanabe" element. Just because you have a "thou" don't make you more like a GP rider.
<




Its becoming like all the "Busa" riders out there, plonking around town being the fastest machine in existence, a "Busa" takes them above the mere level of "manliness" achieved with a "thou" or tiddly GP bike!!
<
<
<


In the end they never seem to get there that fast
<




Reminds me ofthe old days of 750 triples when the 500's were "it", the 750 triple riders all thought 500's were "piddly". Ignoring the fact a GP bike was somewhat more a refined speed machine than their rather "agricultural" 750 plonkers.
<
Click to expand...



C`mon Barry,you know damn well the 1000cc class was the best racing we`ve ever had.
<
 
DRILL said:
C`mon Barry,you know damn well the 1000cc class was the best racing we`ve ever had.
<
Click to expand...



Sorry but it took me many years to forgive the drowning out of the 2 Strokes. So much so that I tended to watch the Edwards v's Bayliss battles more than watch GP.



I'm not much impressed with the "personality quest" aspect being prominent more than racing compared to the old 500 days.



To me the years up to 05 were pretty much years of transition to the new 4 stroke era.



2010 is looking like a great year. There a 4 or five guys going great. Even RdP is impressing this year.



800's has been way better than the 990 era, the skills havecome to the fore.
 
BarryMachine said:
Sorry but it took me many years to forgive the drowning out of the 2 Strokes. So much so that I tended to watch the Edwards v's Bayliss battles more than watch GP.



I'm not much impressed with the "personality quest" aspect being prominent more than racing compared to the old 500 days.



To me the years up to 05 were pretty much years of transition to the new 4 stroke era.



2010 is looking like a great year. There a 4 or five guys going great. Even RdP is impressing this year.



800's has been way better than the 990 era, the skills havecome to the fore.
Click to expand...



Personally I always looked to the 1 litre class as a very good match to the 500cc bikes purely because of the spectacle of `slide`. These days there seems to be something missing from motoGP.I`ll explain as best I can with the fact that I enjoy Moto2 more than the top class with its small grid right now (even with 17-18 riders its ......` pitiful !).So 2012 can`t come quick enough for me although I suspect that Jerry Burgess has a point with his 600cc MotoGP bikes idea.Has he the foresight that knows that the 600 prototype engines may bring back the spectacle of the 500`s again in the sense of handling? Thats what I want to see,as well as Moto2 being kept to a fairly stock engine but more manufacturers in there.
<
 
BarryMachine said:
Sorry but it took me many years to forgive the drowning out of the 2 Strokes. So much so that I tended to watch the Edwards v's Bayliss battles more than watch GP.



I'm not much impressed with the "personality quest" aspect being prominent more than racing compared to the old 500 days.



To me the years up to 05 were pretty much years of transition to the new 4 stroke era.



2010 is looking like a great year. There a 4 or five guys going great. Even RdP is impressing this year.



800's has been way better than the 990 era, the skills havecome to the fore.
Click to expand...

Have to disagree with you Barry, there have only been a handful of epic races since the 800 era, go back to the 990 era and there were many races that were interesting to watch, not to mention the customer bikes in the 990 era were capable of winning races. If I recall there were more bikes on the grid in the 990 era as well.
 
DRILL said:
C`mon Barry,you know damn well the 1000cc class was the best racing we`ve ever had.
<
Click to expand...



No offense to you personally but it is pure fantasy that the racing had anything to do with the displacement of an engine in the 990 era or the 800 era.



In my opinion the racing was good because the power of the bike was handled by the rider and was limited not by electronics but by the capability of the tyre. The bike easily had the ability to outperform the tyre so it did not take huge amounts of skill to ride the bike up to the limit of the tyre because it was no where near the limit of the bike. In this current era the tyre is much closer to the limit of the bike so it takes more skill to get to the limit of the bike and the tyre in tandem. Now add traction control to the performance of the tyre and the fastest way to get around the race track is through corner speed because the performance of the tyre extended by the traction control makes it possible for the extremely skilled to take the performance of the bike to a level that the less skilled rider can not.



The order of finishing today is dictated by rider skill just as it was in the days of the 500cc bikes. The finishing order in the 990 era was dictated by tyres. If you reduced electronics and reduced the mid corner capability of the tyres then we would revert to the brake, square up the corner and shoot it out style and have close racing again. This style allowed block passing and block passing leads to bunching up of groups of riders.
 
800 lovers are ....... .......
<




990s ruled http://www.powerslide.net/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
 
xx CURVE xx said:
800 lovers are ....... .......
<




990s ruled http://www.powerslide.net/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/.....gif
Click to expand...





doesnt have to be 990 but any change you make is basically going back to the drawing board anyway - so .... it I'd be happy to go back to 500cc2stroke-smelling...
 
Two-strokers have been the best racing bikes of all time.



At the last race in Catalunya, the Moto2 were lapping 3 seconds off the pace of last year's 250
<




Even now, it could be interesting to see an updated 500 NSR set up with the latest Ohlins, Brembo and Bridgestones, and maybe equipped with a little traction control... Then they would be obliged to switch to 990cc again immediately, to keep the 4-strokers on top
<
 
as much as i like strokers ...... they are dead..no way in hell a 500 would ever touch an 800 let alone a 990/1000



The Moto2 class has slower lap times cause the engines were dumbed down..
 

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