wsbk 2012

Krop has a nice article about the new 1 bike rule and limited testing http://motomatters.com/news/2011/10/27/major_new_rules_for_wsbk_1_bike_per_ride.html





however, i don't get why twins should be heavier



i think aprilia are too afraid of the 1199 dominating their v4 in 2013 when in fact a lot of people seem to forget that 2011 was about checa,not the ducati

cliché guevara said:

people seem to forget that 2011 was about checa,not the ducati

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I'm one of those people.

cliché guevara said:

a lot of people seem to forget that 2011 was about checa,not the ducati

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I'm one of those people as well. The 2011 season was more about performance balancing (or lack thereof) and stealth, single-bike factory teams.



Weight for twins is rising due to performance balancing. The engineers and sanctioning officials craft complicated balancing models and then they tweak them until they work. We don't get it b/c we reject the insanity known as factory-controlled racing. Everything is just a negotiation between an entertainment company and the factory brand managers. Sport is barely an afterthought.

well sure the twins did very well in 2011 to say the least.

but to pick up jums argument where it was debated whether the rc212v was light years ahead : 1. melandri lost way too many points 2. biaggi ...... up all the time and then even got hurt



i think those two factors did much more for checas dominance than his bike. i too believe the duc was great this year and he was the only "factory" rider. but i don't think that either the yamaha and especially the aprilia are considerably slower

mylexicon said:

I'm one of those people as well. The 2011 season was more about performance balancing (or lack thereof) and stealth, single-bike factory teams.



Weight for twins is rising due to performance balancing. The engineers and sanctioning officials craft complicated balancing models and then they tweak them until they work. We don't get it b/c we reject the insanity known as factory-controlled racing. Everything is just a negotiation between an entertainment company and the factory brand managers. Sport is barely an afterthought.

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yup



for me, the huge mistake was to allow ducati an extra 200cc.had they not done that or say only allow 1100cc they wouldn't have had to use air restrictors and weight, having two variabls always ..... things up , from 8th grade math to motorcycle racing





and although i agree with most everything you say , i think its totally underestimated by you guys what difference the rider makes. seeing him at the nurburgring totally made an impression on me to be honest

Apparently Chaz Davies and ParkinGo team were testing Aprilias this week!!...

i thought they would go with ducatis?

what about the ducati factory team, will they have 2 bikes next season?

i wonder why they chose to not race the 1199 next season ,bmw and aprilia too raced their bikes before making them available in the showrooms

Tom said:

Apparently Chaz Davies and ParkinGo team were testing Aprilias this week!!...

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My prediction, Davies will not be top 5 on the superbikes, where we will see a better picture of his ability in the series. (With the caveat that the series manipulates results with its formula of weight vs results vs engine configuration). I'm not convinced his Supersport performance was indicative of his talent. Same with Scassa. They are nice guys, so I wouldn't mind if I were wrong, but having seen them both up close in the AMA, I'm not convinced they were the class of the field, unless the Supersport field is that bad. Which I hadn't thought of, and it might be the case.

cliché guevara said:

i thought they would go with ducatis?

what about the ducati factory team, will they have 2 bikes next season?

i wonder why they chose to not race the 1199 next season ,bmw and aprilia too raced their bikes before making them available in the showrooms

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By factory team, do you mean Althea? Or I have I missed a massive bit of news? Althea will have Checa again and they've promoted one of their Superstock riders to join him, can't remember the name at the moment.

Jumkie said:

My prediction, Davies will not be top 5 on the superbikes, where we will see a better picture of his ability in the series. (With the caveat that the series manipulates results with its formula of weight vs results vs engine configuration). I'm not convinced his Supersport performance was indicative of his talent. Same with Scassa. They are nice guys, so I wouldn't mind if I were wrong, but having seen them both up close in the AMA, I'm not convinced they were the class of the field, unless the Supersport field is that bad. Which I hadn't thought of, and it might be the case.

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I disagree about Davies. I think it's been a bit of an underwhelming Supersport class in comparison to the past two seasons when you had Sofuoglu, Crutchlow, and Laverty, but I still think there's a good chunk of talent there. I think Sam Lowes and Gino Rea are two very talented young riders who will eventually make their way up to Superbike and will be successful. James Ellison has proven his pedigree in MotoGP and showed this season that once the confidence gets rolling, he's capable of running with just about anyone (remember him hanging onto Hill and Hopkins with his private Honda at Brands?). David Salom is no slouch, and there's always the threat from Broc Parkes and Fabien Foret. And throughout the year, Davies kept his head down and worked throughout the weekend and come Sunday, he found a way to be quicker than everyone, more often than not. He's a tall, lanky kid, he's built for a larger bike. I think the Superbike will suit him better than a 600.



I'm not expecting him to set the world alight, but I think he's going to have a very strong season in Superbike.

Tom said:

Apparently Chaz Davies and ParkinGo team were testing Aprilias this week!!...

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Chaz has been bent on riding an Aprilia SBK since 2009 when he was riding for KWS Aprilia in AMA DSB. Unfortunately Aprilia didn't bring the RSV in 2009 or 2010 to the AMA which prompted Chaz' jump into international racing. If I were to take a guess, Parkingo is running Aprilia's b/c their newly minted WSS champion wants to run Aprilias. If true, it shows that Chaz is gaining some powerful backers in international racing. Unlike Jumkie, I think he is well positioned to succeed, especially if the competitive environment is flattened with rules changes like those found in BSB.

I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, I've met the kid, and he's very nice, accessible, well mannered, and humble. A great nice kid for sure.



Lex, I like what you said about gaining powerful backers, its a necessity in international racing.



Having said that, who wants to put up some money on their assessment, a little bet? 10 bucks says the WSS World Champion doesn't finish in the top 5 end of season classification? I'll add to my bet with an extra 5 bucks on it that he will not win a race to boot. And thats with the mulligan of being on an Aprillia, one of the two darling manufactures and decided benefactors of contrived rules of Wsbk. On top of the fact that two of the best riders in Wsbk are sequestered on BMWs. That's a good bet for you guys.

well ,call it althea or factory team, in the end its the same





you know what, IF davies is on a factory spec aprilia i take the bet, but if hes on anything like haga's machine it would be too much to ask from him,top 10 and podium finishes should be the target there





and really,don't count out melandri and haslam.i wouldnt be surprised if fastest bike+ great riders + top electronics (hopefully) = world championships



the way i see it the bmw is the only bike on the current grid that has still a lot of potential left until ducati will come back big in 2013

cliché guevara said:

well ,call it althea or factory team, in the end its the same





you know what, IF davies is on a factory spec aprilia i take the bet, but if hes on anything like haga's machine it would be too much to ask from him,top 10 and podium finishes should be the target there





and really,don't count out melandri and haslam.i wouldnt be surprised if fastest bike+ great riders + top electronics (hopefully) = world championships



the way i see it the bmw is the only bike on the current grid that has still a lot of potential left until ducati will come back big in 2013

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Pretty much my thoughts. The aim for Davies (with satellite or private equipment) should be top 10 in the standings and podiums. I wouldn't take your bet, Jum, but I would take a top 10 championship standing with multiple podiums. Put the over/under at eighth place in the championship and two podiums and I'd be interested.



Bang on assessment of BMW, in my opinion.

Jumkie said:

I wouldn't mind being proven wrong, I've met the kid, and he's very nice, accessible, well mannered, and humble. A great nice kid for sure.



Lex, I like what you said about gaining powerful backers, its a necessity in international racing.



Having said that, who wants to put up some money on their assessment, a little bet? 10 bucks says the WSS World Champion doesn't finish in the top 5 end of season classification? I'll add to my bet with an extra 5 bucks on it that he will not win a race to boot. And thats with the mulligan of being on an Aprillia, one of the two darling manufactures and decided benefactors of contrived rules of Wsbk. On top of the fact that two of the best riders in Wsbk are sequestered on BMWs. That's a good bet for you guys.

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Championship finishing position isn't going to show us his talents. Rea finished 9th this season, ergo he'll never challenge for the title? If you want to measure Davies' potential you've got to look at stuff like finish percentage, average finish position, time gap to the leaders, etc.



We don't know the pace of BMWs, Yamahas, or Hondas for next season. We don't know how many teams will show up for the one bike rule. We don't even know what bike Chaz will be riding!



I like to bet, but I'm not keen on gambling.

I thought it was a done deal with parkingo and ducati ( weeks ago )

Willski said:

I thought it was a done deal with parkingo and ducati ( weeks ago )

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Was anything ever made official? I know the rumors had been Ducati for some time, but I never saw anything in writing. Until it's made official, there's no reason why a private team like ParkinGO couldn't make a last-minute switch.

Austin said:

Was anything ever made official? I know the rumors had been Ducati for some time, but I never saw anything in writing. Until it's made official, there's no reason why a private team like ParkinGO couldn't make a last-minute switch.

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Sure I even read an article in MCN about it. Chaz was saying how happy he was to be riding a ducati.



Perhaps it was pre-agreement talk. A deal ain't a deal until its signed I suppose

Willski said:

Sure I even read an article in MCN about it. Chaz was saying how happy he was to be riding a ducati.



Perhaps it was pre-agreement talk. A deal ain't a deal until its signed I suppose

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Chaz was in the Eurosport box this afternoon. He said that the Aprilia deal didn't begin to materialize until Portimao. There was also a mention of de Puniet going to Pata Aprilia. Hadn't heard that one before, but Jules and Chaz both seemed pretty familiar with the rumor.

nobody wants to take me up on my bet. Well, I think you guys are turning down easy money. Davies has one other thing going for him, that he was tested in the AMA. No wonder he went on to win the World SS title. He said, Jesus, I'm going nowhere here in the AMA, these guys are sharks. I'm gonna go to WSS.

Jumkie said:

nobody wants to take me up on my bet. Well, I think you guys are turning down easy money. Davies has one other thing going for him, that he was tested in the AMA. No wonder he went on to win the World SS title. He said, Jesus, I'm going nowhere here in the AMA, these guys are sharks. I'm gonna go to WSS.

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It's too uncertain. BMW are getting new electronics. Honda is getting throttle by wire. Yamaha will no longer be a factory team. If those teams flub it, and Chaz has a well-prepped Aprilia, 5th place will be a possibility. If BMW, Honda, and Yamaha all have front-running pace, 5th place for a rookie on privateer equipment seems quite unlikely.



I don't see a correlation between his talent, and his finishing position. Everything depends on the performance level and commitment of BMW, Honda, and Yamaha.