Winglets-Strakes to be outlawed in 2017

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Gigi has spoken out:

Gigi Dall'Igna has challenged claims that MotoGP winglets are inherently dangerous, suggesting moves to ban the technology on safety grounds are more of 'a pretext' to halt Ducati's aerodynamic advantage.

However the Ducati Corse general manager is 'willing to improve the current regulations', calling for 'intellectual honesty and common sense... so we can continue to work on aerodynamics with clearer and more detailed regulations'.

Ducati pioneered the latest generation of winglets on its 2015 machine, the first complete Desmosedici overseen by Dall'Igna. The Italian factory has been at the forefront of winglet technology ever since, its ongoing investment clear to see through frequent design evolutions.

Six months after the Ducati winglet debut, Yamaha unveiled its version at the 2015 Misano round. Honda was next, albeit not until this year's Qatar test. Suzuki and Aprilia finally made it a clean sweep of all five manufacturers last weekend at Jerez.

But at the same time rumours were circulating that winglets could soon be banned, with the manufacturers' association (MSMA) meeting to try and agree on a proposal for the future of such devices.

With winglets clearly legal under the present rules, safety is the key factor in terms of any immediate rule amendments.

Those in favour of scrapping the technology have been quick to highlight contact between Andrea Iannone's left winglet and Marc Marquez at the start of the Argentine Grand Prix.


Asked by Crash.net to respond to the safety argument, Dall'Igna stated: “There is a lot of talk about winglet safety but to be honest I don't think anything has happened that can bring us to say that the winglets are dangerous.

“In the case of Iannone's and Marquez's clash at the first corner of the Argentina GP, the left winglet of our bike broke off and Marquez didn't suffer any damage or a different problem to what could have happened in a normal contact of this kind. And there are certainly other parts of a bike (the bars and the foot-pegs for example) that can cause problems in case of contact.

“It is also true however that everything can be improved and for this reason we will put forward our proposal for a ruling on the winglets, with a view to further improving the safety of the bikes.”

image: http://pix.crash.net/motorsport/710/AU1431486.jpg
Left winglet missing from Iannone's Ducati after earlier contact with Marquez in Argentina MotoGP race.

The main purpose of the winglets is to generate downforce at the front of the bike during acceleration, thus reducing the amount of wheelie without needing to cut engine output.

“The winglets are useful to reduce the tendency of the bikes to wheelie and I believe that we all agree when we state that a bike that keeps its front wheel down on the track under acceleration is safer than one with its wheel in the air,” Dall'Igna added.

“As I have said, we are willing to improve the current regulations, in view of greater safety, but we cannot accept that an incident without any serious consequences is taken as a pretext to try and bring a halt to development in a field which Ducati began before anyone else, in full compliance with existing regulations, and which as a result has given us an advantage over some of our competitors.

“I hope that intellectual honesty and common sense will prevail so we can continue to work on aerodynamics with clearer and more detailed regulations.”

With Ducati strongly opposed to a ban on winglets (as recently introduced for Moto2 and Moto3), restrictions on the size, shape and location of the devices is the most likely outcome of the MSMA discussions - assuming the manufacturers can agree on a proposal.
 
While I do like Ducati's creativeness with the winglets, I think they are overall a bad idea for GP. I don't look at this from a safety consideration, but more of financial perspective. F1 has proven that teams will spend millions upon millions chasing down another point or two of downforce, and well, the cars have become ghastly to look at with their multi-element front wings and the like. Now I don't think GP would go to that extreme with the winglets but, you can never be too sure about this. The complete lack of aero appendages is what makes for a far better racing product since the bikes are not creating the sort of turbulent wake behind them that makes slipstreaming more difficult. We've already started hearing about how following the Ducati's creates turbulence, so I'm not keen on seeing this continue. Of course I feel like it's a double-edged sword because banning them takes away another Ducati gain, which happens far too much as we know.
 
Hmm, maybe that's why Dovi keeps getting torpedoed. All that turbulence...


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Latest:

ith the long term future of winglets in MotoGP still unclear, Dani Pedrosa admits he has difficulty balancing the ongoing quest for safety with use of the aerodynamic devices.

“Personally I don't like them, because of the safety thing,” said the Repsol Honda star.

“The rider is very exposed in general, so we are making [requests to] the Safety Commissions to change the kerbs, to change the grass, the sand of the gravel trap, to increase the air fence etc and then we put these kind of 'knives' on the bike.

“So it does not make so much sense, to work so hard in one way, and destroy it in the other.”

Pedrosa confirmed his concerns are mainly about the risk of injury should a rider be hit by a winglet during an accident. Meanwhile the likes of Bradley Smith have said the downstream turbulence they create is of greatest concern.

However Ducati, which began the new winglet era on its 2015 Desmosedici and remains at the forefront of the technology - including larger designs this weekend at Le Mans - has defended the devices.

“There are several reasons why we think winglets should stay,” commented sporting director Paolo Ciabatti. “First safety, we think they are safe and there are ways to make them even safer in terms of material etc.

“They also make MotoGP look different from other motorcycle racing and in terms of cost, for us, it is not more than time we would spent in the wind tunnel trying different fairings. So there is no real reason why we think they should be forbidden.”

Also speaking on day one of the French MotoGP, LCR Honda's Cal Crutchlow declared: “We all want [the wings] off, except for a couple of riders.

“I had dinner with Dovi last Saturday. Me, Lucy, Jack [Miller] and a friend of Dovi's who works with me. And we spent the whole night hammering him about how how stupid those [wings] are, how dangerous they are... So we stirred the pot a little!

"But they already know, because we do it in the Safety Commission with the other riders also. Fair play, that's [Ducati's] advantage, they are clever enough to be able to use them and do it. They are within the rules.”

The MSMA have been asked to submit a proposal about the safety and future of winglets, but reaching a unanimous agreement between the manufacturers seems unlikely.

If such deadlock continues, a proposal could instead be submitted by another member of the Grand Prix Commission, which is comprised of Dorna, IRTA, FIM and MSMA.
 
Just a thought, does anyone reckon the wings might be anything to do with the front end washouts?
 
Dani, i thought that with turn one at this race. At high speed the bike leaned over like they do, i was wondering if the forces generated by the wrongs were contributing to the head shakes. Though from memory, the bikes typically behaved this way in previous years. These men have balls the size of coconuts to keep the throttle pinned in this situation.
 
These small winglets, if designed correctly would give between 5 and 50lbs of downforce, depending on speed. Ducati first used them when they were trying to overcome a ...... front end, not ...... tyres. Now all manfacturers are using them and I dont think every bike has front end problems. Its the tyres that have created this winglet debate, and they are all using the wings to reduce the impact Michelins tyres are having on performance. Without them, there would likely be even more front end crashes, or a lot slower races.
 
These small winglets, if designed correctly would give between 5 and 50lbs of downforce, depending on speed. Ducati first used them when they were trying to overcome a ...... front end, not ...... tyres. Now all manfacturers are using them and I dont think every bike has front end problems. Its the tyres that have created this winglet debate, and they are all using the wings to reduce the impact Michelins tyres are having on performance. Without them, there would likely be even more front end crashes, or a lot slower races.
What a fantastic post! Excellent man.
 
Regardless of the change of tyre the winglets were going to be a thing this year. Yam or honda would not waste there time and resources if there is no benefit.
 
I thought the wings were to help keep the front end down on acceleration.
Because all the teams are using the spec ecu the anti wheelie control is not as good as the factories own wheelis control they were using previous to this season. so they can't programme the dialing in to keep the front wheel down as well as they could. Hence the wings provide the extra downforce to help keep the front wheel on the tarmac during acceleration.
 
Thats right Red. They create downforce to help reduce the amount of power pulled by the anti wheelie software, but this downforce also helps plant the front end during cornering. I dont know if these wings were always a part of this years bike design, or if they have been bought about by the early testing of the Michelin tyre which showed that getting the front tyre planted was going to be a problem.
 
Thats right Red. They create downforce to help reduce the amount of power pulled by the anti wheelie software, but this downforce also helps plant the front end during cornering. I dont know if these wings were always a part of this years bike design, or if they have been bought about by the early testing of the Michelin tyre which showed that getting the front tyre planted was going to be a problem.

Spot on.
The extra force on the front is speed dependent, not acceleration dependent
 
I have been thinking about this whilst doing a mundane no thought needed job and ended up thinking down two lines of thought.
1 could the wings work in a negative way whilst leant over at 50-60 degrees and actually produce uplift using the airflow and say the fairing. In a staight line they work fine and create the downforce the factories are trying to achieve but not whilst on their sides. or
2 A combination of dirty airflow as complained about by them eff wun people and the wings on their sides, This idea seems to fit with the Dovi MM crash, Rossi in front of Dovi 4-5 bike lengths behind Dovi MM the same distance. I would be interested to know Who went down chasing and who had a fall all by themselves in clean so to speak air.
Or this is all bollocks and the track needs resurfacing, The riders seem to be 50/50 track/tyres.
Any ideas anyone?
 
Great questions Lil Red.

I have a question too, was this dangerous in the context of the argument made against strakes?

cdb71bfc54d096a4dac8bea0dbf9501c.jpg
motogp.com
 
I have been thinking about this whilst doing a mundane no thought needed job and ended up thinking down two lines of thought.

1 could the wings work in a negative way whilst leant over at 50-60 degrees and actually produce uplift using the airflow and say the fairing. In a staight line they work fine and create the downforce the factories are trying to achieve but not whilst on their sides. or

2 A combination of dirty airflow as complained about by them eff wun people and the wings on their sides, This idea seems to fit with the Dovi MM crash, Rossi in front of Dovi 4-5 bike lengths behind Dovi MM the same distance. I would be interested to know Who went down chasing and who had a fall all by themselves in clean so to speak air.

Or this is all bollocks and the track needs resurfacing, The riders seem to be 50/50 track/tyres.

Any ideas anyone?



The force generated by the strakes is always directed towards the front wheel. The lean angle of the bike makes no difference to this.
 
I agree. The interesting point raised by Red is the impact the disturbed air has when braking & cornering. As it is only new to bike racing, riders probably arent fully aware on how much of an impact disturbed airflow will have when cornering close behind someone, as opposed to clean air.
 

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