Winglets-Strakes to be outlawed in 2017

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povol said:
we are not concerned with winglets coming off, just the opposite actually. The problem I see with them is the damage they could do by NOT coming off the bike in an incident.
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Could, might, might not.

I'd be less concerned with that, and more concerned with a situation like the one Marco Simoncelli found himself in before he was killed.

Once a bike crashes, there are any number of parts of the bike that don't come off that can cause serious damage, and that doesn't even count the parts that do break off.
 
Dr No said:
..... I had forgotten all Judd. That was .....
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Yep, a guy I used to work with at the race meetings is a level 5 MA official and an FIM official and I recall him telling me that Judd was the worst incident that he had the misfortune of witnessing (he was at the meet in an official capacity and attended the site).

7 years ago in April from memory.
 
CbmVosIUYAAk0e_.jpg:large


okay, wings are dangerous, if the scenario was similar to this pic.

Question:
How much speed differences between these two, so the wings could act like a sickle?

If the pegs act like a wall that prevent the foot to move forward, yes Wings are dangerous and fatal
 
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HelloMars said:
CbmVosIUYAAk0e_.jpg:large


okay, wings are dangerous, if the scenario was similar to this pic.

Question:
How much speed differences between these two, so the wings could act like a sickle?

If the pegs act like a wall that prevent the foot to move forward, yes Wings are dangerous and fatal
Click to expand...


The winglets would snap off harmlessly. If they didn't, they would never have passes scrutineering.

Strakes and winglets are bad for MotoGP, because aerodynamics are a bottomless pit in terms of money. But the safety arguments are .........
 
Serious question Krop - how do they scrutineer test them?

Asking as when I used to scrutineer it was frowned upon by many for us to actually even push/pull to test the fairing clips, admittedly at much much lower level of events so no doubt cost played a part.

No matter though, we had methods to check things that were subtle and not obvious to most people (sure we got caught occasionally, usually by factory boys (Domestic factory) but genuinely asking. Do they do a push/pull type test until it drops off or what?

Thanks in advance



EDIT:
With the safety side I wouldn't go so far as to say it is ........ as there is a possibility of a stray winglet on the track damaging a tyre or in the event of an accident it could possibly become 'airborne' and impact a rider who may crash as a result of the distraction caused (of course, these guys are virtually immune from distractions but you never know)
 
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Gaz said:
Serious question Krop - how do they scrutineer test them?

Asking as when I used to scrutineer it was frowned upon by many for us to actually even push/pull to test the fairing clips, admittedly at much much lower level of events so no doubt cost played a part.

No matter though, we had methods to check things that were subtle and not obvious to most people (sure we got caught occasionally, usually by factory boys (Domestic factory) but genuinely asking. Do they do a push/pull type test until it drops off or what?

Thanks in advance



EDIT:
With the safety side I wouldn't go so far as to say it is ........ as there is a possibility of a stray winglet on the track damaging a tyre or in the event of an accident it could possibly become 'airborne' and impact a rider who may crash as a result of the distraction caused (of course, these guys are virtually immune from distractions but you never know)
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Gaz, fair point, that is indeed one way they could be a safety issue.

Strakes have to be submitted to Technical Director Danny Aldridge before they can be used. He assesses their safety, and ensures they will break off correctly. No idea how they do this, but I shall ask. Usually, the manufacturers have to submit technical drawings.
 
To do it properly they would have to have some test standard for the magnitude and direction of the force and probably, also bending moment, that it takes to detach it. There may be st in the EN standards that they can reference. Following the norm for CE safety directives, the test could then be done by a certified body and the appropriately endorsed results submitted to the scrutineers.
 
Some good posts here.
Did no one snigger at Mat "Rossi is an easy rider" Oxley saying that screen edges must have radii..?
 
Jumkie said:
Bro, I hear you. But pegs are just as dangerous. Seriously, if a bike cartwheels into another rider, the peg can pierce the head and kill instantly. I honestly don't see winglets any more or less dangerous. The windshield can do damage to a rider's exposed neck if it gets in the right place. Etc. And so forth.

If the argument against winglets is because it's 'just' a performance element and 'not essential' well then there are a bunch of things we could reasonably argue should be banned on the grounds of safety because as you say...anything, unforseen, can happen.

Btw double jeopardy is a safeguard so people are not 'tried' twice for murder after being legitimately acquitted; NOT a get out of jail card the next time one is busted for murder. Big difference. You can and quite often do see murderers sentenced multiple times for multiple murders.
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Like the article says, some parts of a motorcycle are essential for the operation of the vehicle, ie handle bars, foot pegs etc etc and winglets are not an essential element to operate a motorcycle , not even essential to what they are trying to achieve . Btw double jeopardy is not only for murder, it can be used in many applications.
 
Povol will be none too pleased. Look away Pov.


An area 51 picture of Ducati's top secret GP18 project.

uploadfromtaptalk1456431318967.jpg
 
Sorry, coming to this thread very late. Not sure if somebody already mentioned this, but I wanted to say something after reading the article posted in the first comment.

The article talks about the potential dangers of the winglets, and they show the picture I've attached as an example of how they might be dangerous in corners. But nobody ever talks about the dangers of sticking your leg out to the inside of the corner as far as you can like Rossi does....in the same picture. Isn't that dangerous? It looks like the Ducati is more likely to run over his foot than anything.

But to be fair, Dovizioso's got his leg out too. I know they're just trying to balance into the corner, but come on. If there is a realistic concern that another bike might come up the inside and scrape your fairing, isn't there an even greater likelihood that said bike will run over your foot and do who-knows-how-much damage to your foot and leg if you stick it way out into the corner?
 

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Good point Kurr. I've even heard commentators say Rossi may put it out a bit further to discourage a pass, making himself as wide as he can. Btw I can't help but laugh thinking it may have been Rossi's leg that ultimately caused a fellow rider to go down. A winglet has yet to do that. Ha!
 
kurre said:
Sorry, coming to this thread very late. Not sure if somebody already mentioned this, but I wanted to say something after reading the article posted in the first comment.

The article talks about the potential dangers of the winglets, and they show the picture I've attached as an example of how they might be dangerous in corners. But nobody ever talks about the dangers of sticking your leg out to the inside of the corner as far as you can like Rossi does....in the same picture. Isn't that dangerous? It looks like the Ducati is more likely to run over his foot than anything.

But to be fair, Dovizioso's got his leg out too. I know they're just trying to balance into the corner, but come on. If there is a realistic concern that another bike might come up the inside and scrape your fairing, isn't there an even greater likelihood that said bike will run over your foot and do who-knows-how-much damage to your foot and leg if you stick it way out into the corner?
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I've also never seen anyone come up with a concrete reason for if the leg dangle has any benefit. Telemetry showed there's no difference between doing that and not doing that.

I've heard allusions to physics or aero benefits, but it's never been confirmed.

I'm mostly waiting for someone to eventually get clipped in the leg as that picture shows is close to happening.
 
Also every rider does the leg dangle now, and I would venture it's because they saw Rossi do it. Rossi claims it feels natural. It might, I don't know, I've never raced motorcycles, but I don't have any desire to stick out the leg on a street bike under braking. But maybe that would change if you are braking at the levels the GP guys brake at.
 
I think it's a feeling for balance and additional managed braking (think parachute). When I ride supermoto I generally dangle the leg like I do for MX, it does feel like it gives me balance. Granted 'sportbike roadracing' isn't SM/MX, and I've never done it on a trackday, but I can understand the parallels.

Had Dovi ran over VR's foot, there would have been hell to pay.
 
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I don't see Lorenzo stick his leg out. Rossi started it to be different and create hype to sell more t shirts.

In my opinion winglets aren't a safety hazard. Handlebars are more dangerous but you need them
 

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