Winglets-Strakes to be outlawed in 2017

To wing it or not, that is the question - MotoGP - Motor Sport Magazine


I agree, always thought they could act like a sickle if things went wrong on the race track.

Hilarious stuff. I don't think there are less bias "journalists" than Matt Oxley, this might as well been a piece written by a rival manufacture or Dorna itself on the heel of a 'horse trading' deal, why not title the piece: Why we need to .... with Ducati-- winglets are bad and can never be good!.

My initial reaction is, ah ha, I was waiting in what way Ducati would be hampered. Its a pattern that has repeated itself since 2008. I've said it before and it bares repeating, Ducati should use the Rossi tactic and threaten to leave. I'd tell Dorna, IRTA, and rival manufactures to go get ......, field 16 bikes, good-bye.

Mat Oxley can't possible imagine an engineering solution to all the concerns? Maybe bikes shouldn't have senors because Marquez tripped Pedrosa's and sent him gravel surfing. Nop, lets ban wheel sensors, right? How many times did Oxely repeat this doom scenario of riders going into the first turn with winglets on their bikes? Wait, so if the winglets didn't exist the riders could slam into eachother and nothing would happen? Why don't we ban handle bars, after all they protrude dangerously off the bike.

It a ........ opinion piece that's meant to convince the public that yeah, winglets might devour your children if we let them exist. And for those who think this kind of .... doesn't happen, even Oxley alludes to the "horse trading" that goes on to write rules. I can only imagine the .... that goes down in these motorhomes. Normally for the benefit of the Japanese manufactures and often for the detriment of Ducati. Which frankly I don't understand why they allow themselves to get ...... over year after year. Even when they chose to enter as an 'Open Class' Dorna had to scurry to make a new category, 'Factory 2' until it figured out a way to make some progressive performance scale that could keep them at bay in case they started to actually win. So, let Ducati spend millions of dollars in engineering and development, they do the hard work to dial this interesting design solution, they make it work, then take them away once they figured out how to unleash some potential? The Ducati negotiator representing their interests should be .... canned. Is this still a "prototype" series or not?

Ducati didn't spend millions inventing wings and their affects. They tried the band aid approach to a problem that other builders have overcome without gaudy and dangerous appendages . The regulations are very in depth when it comes to the shapes and size limitations of body parts and it's done for a reason, not just to .... with people. If you don't reign it in now, before long you would have 18 inch wings, then 2 foot wings etc. . It will be interesting to see how much of a hissy fit Ducati throws if they are banned. If they complain at all, it will be a feigned response to garner concessions as I don't think they were ever anything more than a stop gap measure to begin with.

Fair enough, not millions, $thousands & $thousands. Design, manufacturer, develop, wind tunnel, trials, redesign, repeat.

Pov, you don't think they could figure out an engineering solution to make winglets safe? Haha, why not 18 foot winglets, of course there is this thing called turning which would prevent such an exaggeration. You don't think they could formulate some limits in dimensions to allow this aero design to exist?


Edit: I forgot to add to my original post, I was impressed with Oxley's imagination of all the possible decapitations and severed limbs that could happen with these winglets. It seems he can imagine unintended consequences when riders crash in this case. EXCEPT of course he couldn't imagine some freakish injury that could have befell Marquez when he was punted by Rossi at....Sepang. You know, that title that surely Rossi would have dedicated to the late Simoncelli, who died in a freak accident at Sepang.


Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Hey, I'm on record of calling Oxley a Rossi apologist and I also believe his reasoning was unsound on the Sepang incident. On this I think he is right. If there is one thing I have learned following racing, is at these kind of speeds, expect the unexpected . Cars and bikes end up going where you don't expect them to, example Simpncelli. The first time I saw the winglets, how much damage they could do was my first thought. As you all know , I'm a fan of NASCAR . Since big E died, softwalls were made mandatory at certain parts of tracks, then they had accidents that damn near defied physics with cars ending up in places they never dreamed of with drivers getting injured. Now it's pretty much any wall inside the track has softwalls. You have to consider the highly unlikely scenarios and I don't think it's much of a stretch to imagine say a Marc Marquez ignoring a yellow flag and crashing at 160 mph with his bike hurtling towards another downed rider and track Marshall with wings slicing through flesh and bone. By the way, I said 18 inches, not 18 feet you goober.

Winglets are engineered to break off cleanly, and at minimum resistance. Scrutineers check for this, and Danny Aldridge (tech director) is making sure that they cannot injure anyone.

I noticed this part:

"Last year at Phillip Island one MotoGP rider voiced his concerns about the 'dirty air' created by the Ducati at high speeds, making his bike worryingly difficult to control as he sat in the Duc's slipstream at 210mph/340kph"

hhhmmm, so a rider voiced concern after PI. Wonder who that might be?

Then this..............

"And Ducati have been told if any riders attempts to continue racing with a damaged strake he will be black flagged"

BLACK FLAGGED!!!!! Ducati have been TOLD. Haha im laughing about this.

I wonder if any rider was TOLD they would be black flagged for deliberately pushing opponents off line causing them to crash?

Kropotkin said:

Winglets are engineered to break off cleanly, and at minimum resistance. Scrutineers check for this, and Danny Aldridge (tech director) is making sure that they cannot injure anyone.

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I'm sure that is true, but if it is strong enough to withstand 225 mph, it's strong enough to cause damage to the human body.

povol said:

I'm sure that is true, but if it is strong enough to withstand 225 mph, it's strong enough to cause damage to the human body.

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The total downforce generated by the strakes is around 5kg, I was told. That does not require a huge amount of structural strength.

If you think about it, you can see that the amount of load on the structures is relatively small. Fairings stay in place and in one piece, despite being subject to massive loads. Yet they break easily and without injuring riders when they collide.

Kropotkin said:

Winglets are engineered to break off cleanly, and at minimum resistance. Scrutineers check for this, and Danny Aldridge (tech director) is making sure that they cannot injure anyone.

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I'm pretty sure I read or heard this somewhere, about breaking off cleaning. Which is done in other applications.

Do you have an idea how much they spend on designing and developing these things? Or is it factored in to the overall aero package? Just curious.

I don't see why we should be talking banning the winglets, I think they could be incorporated safely. There are so many possibilities for safety concerns for many components of a motorcycle, I don't see why winglets are so evil. Though I do get Povol's concerns, I personally like the feature and appreciate the way Ducati tackle some problems; which have at least to this observer been interesting (trellis, engine-chassis, carbon fiber frame, etc). Basically, I'm saying why do we have to rush to ban winglets if just as easily we can find solutions to make them safe while making them work. It may seem counterintuitive, but so are exposed levers which we allowed for years.

Hell, even brake guards didn't prevent Rossi from kicking it....



I'll get my coat.

povol said:

I'm sure that is true, but if it is strong enough to withstand 225 mph, it's strong enough to cause damage to the human body.

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Pov, did you ever extend your hand out the window when you were a kid in your parents car? Did you notice that when you'd make your hand like a wing it would slice through the air relatively easily? But then when you'd turn your palm up it was practically impossible to keep your arm from going up? The wing slices through the air, it doesn't require it to be attached by much.

Stoner said the GP15 with winglets gave him extra stability at high speeds.

povol said:

By the way, I said 18 inches, not 18 feet you goober.

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Oops, I was thinking of your height. Honest mistake. Ha!

JPSLotus said:

Stoner said the GP15 with winglets gave him extra stability at high speeds.

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Well in that case, let's ban that .... ASAP!

Jumkie said:

Well in that case, let's ban that .... ASAP!

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Exactly...that was my first thought.

"Ahhh Carmelo, thanks for-a coming to-a my trailer. We have to talk about-a those-a winglets-a. Casey likes-a them. They need-a to be-a banned."

Jumkie said:

Pov, did you ever extend your hand out the window when you were a kid in your parents car? Did you notice that when you'd make your hand like a wing it would slice through the air relatively easily? But then when you'd turn your palm up it was practically impossible to keep your arm from going up? The wing slices through the air, it doesn't require it to be attached by much.

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But that is if you hold your hand straight. When angled to create downforce you increase the load ten fold, plus my family cruiser never went 225 mph. Lol. If what Krop says is true about it only creating 5 kg of down force, doesn't seem like it would be worth the hassle to head down that path of development .

JPSLotus said:

Stoner said the GP15 with winglets gave him extra stability at high speeds.

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If the GP15 needs winglets for high speed stability, that's an indicator the front-end geometry is suspect.

moto vudu said:

If the GP15 needs winglets for high speed stability, that's an indicator the front-end geometry is suspect.

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It wasn't said the winglets were being used for stability, he commented on the effect they had on the straights at Sepang.

povol said:

But that is if you hold your hand straight. When angled to create downforce you increase the load ten fold, plus my family cruiser never went 225 mph. Lol. If what Krop says is true about it only creating 5 kg of down force, doesn't seem like it would be worth the hassle to head down that path of development .

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5kg is better than 0kg.

You take what you can get.

JPSLotus said:

It wasn't said the winglets were being used for stability, he commented on the effect they had on the straights at Sepang.

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Still the most obvious explanation would be stability. Not as in suspect geometry stability. Thinking Ducatis of the past were long low stable beasts due to the L engine which were difficult to turn. Now it's a short wheelbase V. Nice and agile. But lost the d stability at high speed. So what does Gigi do? Stretch the wheelbase again to the best compromise? Nah, keep it short and agile, put on the winglets for top speed stability, have the best of both worlds. No wonder they have to ban it.