Why just MotoGP in Laguna Seca?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 19 2007, 01:17 PM) [snapback]79796[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This is why i don't like the laguna Seca deal!! Like you say, most of the US crowds don't like grand prix racing, and as a result the organizers pick and chose to give what is essentialy half a grand prix weekend. This ecvent for me sums up the commercialization of the sport that came with the 4-strioke switch, and its a shame!


Like it or not,its about money and will continue to be about money.All the maufacturers race to ultimatley make money.Win on Sunday,Sell on Monday.The 4stroke change was the smartest thing they ever did.The racing is as good or better and like i said,people can relate to these bikes.I dont know exactly what you mean by the commercialization of the sport but the first time they slapped a sponsor logo on a bike,it was commercialized.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 19 2007, 06:43 PM) [snapback]79814[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Like it or not,its about money and will continue to be about money.All the maufacturers race to ultimatley make money.Win on Sunday,Sell on Monday.The 4stroke change was the smartest thing they ever did.The racing is as good or better and like i said,people can relate to these bikes.I dont know exactly what you mean by the commercialization of the sport but the first time they slapped a sponsor logo on a bike,it was commercialized.


Well when the (totally necesary) four stroke switch was made the sport turned away from using the ultimate racing bikes for the sake of commercial gain. As a result of this the sport has boomed, there is more coverage and more big sponsors but more than evber the sport is ruled by money. The switch was obviously needed for the survival of the racing, but with it has come many negaitves that i do not like. All of these negatives are particularly evident this weekend, and i just find it disappointing.

the smaller classes don't come because the teams can't afford it and dorna won't subsidize the trip, not because of your incorrect perception of american tastes.

the move to 4 strokes was not about commercialization, it was about development. the two stroke had run it's development cycle into the ground and most importantly, you could not successfully marry EMS to the things. everybody knows EMS is the future. hence, the move to 4 strokes. e.g., the move to four strokes was to continue to advance motorcycle development and ensure that GP bikes were the most technologically advanced in the world. if they had not gone to 4 strokes, superbikes would have overtaken GP bikes and the most advanced in just a couple years.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 19 2007, 01:54 PM) [snapback]79817[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Well when the (totally necesary) four stroke switch was made the sport turned away from using the ultimate racing bikes for the sake of commercial gain. As a result of this the sport has boomed, there is more coverage and more big sponsors but more than evber the sport is ruled by money. The switch was obviously needed for the survival of the racing, but with it has come many negaitves that i do not like. All of these negatives are particularly evident this weekend, and i just find it disappointing.


Dont take this the wrong way,not flaming you, but how can you call the 500cc 2 stroke the ultimate race bike when the 990 4 stroke was faster by a long shot on every track they went to.I think i know what you mean though,you miss the excitement of those evil sons of ....... that would toss a rider at the drop of a hat.The new bikes are way more predictable and much safer for the rider which leads to my next question.For the guys that long for the good ole days of the 500,isnt it a little hypocritical to preach about safety of the American tracks yet still want the riders to climb on the most dangerous bikes ever produced.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Jul 19 2007, 09:22 PM) [snapback]79851[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Dont take this the wrong way,not flaming you, but how can you call the 500cc 2 stroke the ultimate race bike when the 990 4 stroke was faster by a long shot on every track they went to.I think i know what you mean though,you miss the excitement of those evil sons of ....... that would toss a rider at the drop of a hat.The new bikes are way more predictable and much safer for the rider which leads to my next question.For the guys that long for the good ole days of the 500,isnt it a little hypocritical to preach about safety of the American tracks yet still want the riders to climb on the most dangerous bikes ever produced.


The 990's needed just under twice the capacity to get the lap times, thats pretty pathetic really.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 19 2007, 04:27 PM) [snapback]79852[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The 990's needed just under twice the capacity to get the lap times, thats pretty pathetic really.



I see your point because i have made a similar argument about Ducati and the cc advantage they get for staying with the v twin in WSB.I look at it in a totally different angle than you.I marvel at how they almost doubled the cc,raised the hp by 30% and kept it in a compact enough package that it would actually put down those kind of lap times.One thing i do remember from Rossi's book is he said he prefered the 500 because not everyone could ride it because of its unpredictable nature,he said anybody can ride the new bike with all of the electronics involved.

So will the lower categories go to Laguna Seca in 2010 when the 2strokes are (sadly IMO) banned?

It's inevitable that 2 stroke development is pretty much over so the lower classes should go 4 stroke - which will lead to more manufacturers racing in these categories, which means more money, more development and better prospects for all 3 classes into the future. We all love the strokers but all good things come to an end - thats progress!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Son of Doohan @ Jul 19 2007, 02:50 PM) [snapback]79877[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It's inevitable that 2 stroke development is pretty much over so the lower classes should go 4 stroke - which will lead to more manufacturers racing in these categories, which means more money, more development and better prospects for all 3 classes into the future. We all love the strokers but all good things come to an end - thats progress!!



agree. as stated in my previous post, the move to 4 strokes is for development's sake and specifically the marriage of computers and engine management. as found out in the GPs, putting EMS on a 2 stroke is pretty much impossible so they moved to a more technologically advanced machine, the 4 stroke.

it think it's pretty obvious that the 125/250s are going to replaced with a 400cc 4 stroke class. 400s are already popular pretty much everywhere except the States.

That is a load of bollocks (I don't know what you mean by EMS) but you can develop any electronics you want for 2 strokes.

The only reason why 2 strokes are dumped is because of marketing and "ecological" reasons.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Teomolca @ Jul 19 2007, 11:57 PM) [snapback]79889[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
That is a load of bollocks (I don't know what you mean by EMS) but you can develop any electronics you want for 2 strokes.

The only reason why 2 strokes are dumped is because of marketing and "ecological" reasons.


They got sacked because they were not commercialy useful. Like i said before, the 4 stroke switch was a major commercialization of the sport

so it is the 2 strokes reason?

Possibly not off topic...
Anyone notice the 125 rookie redbull cup state side version that will run along side the AMA championship next year?

For the record:

I'm an American and I don't particularly care for 125 or 250 Gran Prix racing. When people say Rossi has 7 world titles I laugh. MGP is the undisputed top series in the world after that consumer preference reigns supreme.

I would much rather watch World Supersport over 125's or 250's anyday. World Superbike would be a good substitute as well.

Since WSBK and WSS don't make the trip anymore, AMA is a decent substitute in my book.

If my preferences make me an uncultured swine, so be it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 20 2007, 01:01 AM) [snapback]79891[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
They got sacked because they were not commercialy useful. Like i said before, the 4 stroke switch was a major commercialization of the sport


I'd rather say that the comercial line had moved so far away from the 2-stroke 500s that something had to change.
Back in the 60's and 70's the race bikes were just as close to road bikes and just as comertial as today. Call it recommercialization if you like. I'd call it making the most important series more relevant and updated from a rule set made in the 70's.

That put things in a sligthly different perspective, me thinks.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Jul 22 2007, 05:25 AM) [snapback]80379[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
For the record:

I'm an American and I don't particularly care for 125 or 250 Gran Prix racing. When people say Rossi has 7 world titles I laugh. MGP is the undisputed top series in the world after that consumer preference reigns supreme.

I would much rather watch World Supersport over 125's or 250's anyday. World Superbike would be a good substitute as well.

Since WSBK and WSS don't make the trip anymore, AMA is a decent substitute in my book.

If my preferences make me an uncultured swine, so be it.


I would say 125cc racing is some of the most competitive, eciting bike racing on the planet. I love watching the 125's and it will be sad to see them go but that's progress.

Haven't read the whole thread but wasn't the reason 125's and 250's don't go to Laguna because the program is already full with the AMA events? And the thought initially was to get the crowds they need to run with the AMA events rather than have a stand alone GP event?