Who thinks Rossi will retire at the end of 2012?

BarryMachine said:

Gee you are mister inconsistent!!



One minute you are telling us Rossi is just as good as Stoner on the Duc. and Rossi is as good as Lorenzo etc. etc. etc.



then you go on to admit he is "down" .......



get real clown

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When did I say he was currently as good as Stoner on the Ducati? I remember saying early on last season that his points total was better than Stoner's was in 2010 after the same number of races.



Sometimes I wonder if you're ........, or if you're just pretending.

BarryMachine said:

Ducati's total anual sales WORLDWIDE is only 40,000 bikes. The figure constantly being bandied around for North America was a ploy to distract from the worldwide performance. ie. find one of out markets that is picking up and rave about that .........



Looks like Ducati are 200mil Euro in debt ....... from the Audi takeover figures.

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That's the point.

If Audi-VW are serious about Ducati, it means they want to bank on the strength of the brand and transform the company in a global player. That means more factories in Thailand, India, etc. and many, many more bikes, and more models suited to the emerging markets.



Racing of course can play a role in such plans, so the future of Ducati Corse should be assured: what kind of racing, well, that depends on the scenario and how it develops. Contrary to what most commentators say, I actually do not see the 15k rpm rule as the death sentence for Ducati in MotoGP; on the contrary, such a rule could goad them in the right direction, obliging them develop their engines in directions different from peak power.

Nino said:

When did I say he was currently as good as Stoner on the Ducati? I remember saying early on last season that his points total was better than Stoner's was in 2010 after the same number of races.



Sometimes I wonder if you're ........, or if you're just pretending.

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There you go again!! ............. then how is Rossi down?



I think I'm glad you find me ........, cos I'm most certainly out of sync with you.

J4rn0 said:

That's the point.

If Audi-VW are serious about Ducati, it means they want to bank on the strength of the brand and transform the company in a global player. That means more factories in Thailand, India, etc. and many, many more bikes, and more models suited to the emerging markets.



Racing of course can play a role in such plans, so the future of Ducati Corse should be assured: what kind of racing, well, that depends on the scenario and how it develops. Contrary to what most commentators say, I actually do not see the 15k rpm rule as the death sentence for Ducati in MotoGP; on the contrary, such a rule could goad them in the right direction, obliging them develop their engines in directions different from peak power.

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They really did good with Bugatti and Lambo, so heres hoping.

BarryMachine said:

There you go again!! ............. then how is Rossi down?



I think I'm glad you find me ........, cos I'm most certainly out of sync with you.

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There I go again..? I'm just pointing out what I actually said. Not too difficult to understand, even for you.

I apologize in advance if this has been posted already. It's a worthy read. Nice job David...



http://www.motomatters.com/opinion/2012/04/17/between_the_devil_and_the_deep_blue_sea_.html

don't apologize, i read the thing a 2nd time because of your post

it's by far the best take on the whole ducati/rossi situation i've read, great job kropo

michaelm said:

That line has been jumkie's for 6 months.

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BarryMachine said:

They really did good with Bugatti and Lambo, so heres hoping.

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All major newspapers in Italy today say that the Audi-Ducati deal is done for 860 millions euros, including the debt (estimated at less than 200 millions). So from tomorrow Ducati will be in the black... and under firm directives of avoiding any losses.

J4rn0 said:

All major newspapers in Italy today say that the Audi-Ducati deal is done for 860 millions euros, including the debt (estimated at less than 200 millions). So from tomorrow Ducati will be in the black... and under firm directives of avoiding any losses.

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Its a dream for Ducati thats for sure. It actually should give the more impetus to really perform. Who knows ... maybe even Stoner will go back there.

BarryMachine said:

Its a dream for Ducati thats for sure. It actually should give the more impetus to really perform. Who knows ... maybe even Stoner will go back there.

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Stoner back at Ducati? Why not: win a couple of titles with Honda, then go back at Ducati and win on it... again! Then, retire to his farm, and remain a legend forever.

J4rn0 said:

Stoner back at Ducati? Why not: win a couple of titles with Honda, then go back at Ducati and win on it... again! Then, retire to his farm, and remain a legend forever.

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It was just something Guareschi said when Casey left that lead me to believe it was not out of the question. Stoner said simillar as well. Maybe they were thinking of the Bayliss experience?

Nino said:

When did I say he was currently as good as Stoner on the Ducati? I remember saying early on last season that his points total was better than Stoner's was in 2010 after the same number of races.



Sometimes I wonder if you're ........, or if you're just pretending.

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He is a ......, fact.

BarryMachine said:

It was just something Guareschi said when Casey left that lead me to believe it was not out of the question. Stoner said simillar as well. Maybe they were thinking of the Bayliss experience?

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i don't think stoner will ever do wsbk, my guess is he will get a last 2 year or so deal with honda before he retires

michaelm said:

I personally don't believe stoner will lose the championship by jorge pressuring him into mistakes. The only two races in his factory gp career where I think a fair case can be made for him crashing due to pressure are the 2 races after laguna seca 2008, when basically his chance was pretty well already gone without misadventure to rossi; mathematically he basically needed to win 6 of 7 races, so the points situation imposed substantial pressure whether or not he had also been spooked by rossi. He essentially made no significant race riding errors in 2007 and 2011 (or 2009 for that matter), and I don't think the 2010 ducati required much assistance from him to crash, as was also the case with the 2011 bike and rossi.



If he is beaten this year it will be because jorge rides better than him, because he can't ride the new tyres, or because his physical endurance isn't up to it for whatever reason, the latter two not constituting any excuse either of course. My point which you obviously grasp is that rossi managed to supervene such factors for a decade or more as mick doohan said last year.

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I didn't mean to imply that Stoner would be under pressure or any of those cliches from the past. I just meant that Lorenzo should push now, with the prospect of Casey suffering from arm pump, & the possibility of him having at least a less than perfect start to the season.

Kropotkin said:

There's more to sponsorship and racing than money. Jarvis had offers for a title sponsorship, but not enough to make him accept. From what I understand, these were sizable offers, but they would not outweigh the amount of extra work having a title sponsor involves, and the lack of freedom.



Rossi poses a similar conundrum. Yes, he's a big money draw, and yes, he would bring in sponsorship worth having, but he also brings a massive workload. There his entourage that needs to be accommodated, the press that needs to be handled, the interview requests that need to be scheduled. It's a massive undertaking. The benefits would be clear, but the question is, do they weigh up against the negatives?



Also, it is more of a gamble than you might think? What if Rossi really is past it? I don't think he is, but I am willing to accept the possibility may exist. Signing Rossi means taking on a massive amount of work for uncertain rewards. When you already have a man capable of winning championships in the garage, why would you take the risk?

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How long can Yamaha foot the bill for that freedom though?

Kropotkin said:

There's more to sponsorship and racing than money. Jarvis had offers for a title sponsorship, but not enough to make him accept. From what I understand, these were sizable offers, but they would not outweigh the amount of extra work having a title sponsor involves, and the lack of freedom.



Rossi poses a similar conundrum. Yes, he's a big money draw, and yes, he would bring in sponsorship worth having, but he also brings a massive workload. There his entourage that needs to be accommodated, the press that needs to be handled, the interview requests that need to be scheduled. It's a massive undertaking. The benefits would be clear, but the question is, do they weigh up against the negatives?



Also, it is more of a gamble than you might think? What if Rossi really is past it? I don't think he is, but I am willing to accept the possibility may exist. Signing Rossi means taking on a massive amount of work for uncertain rewards. When you already have a man capable of winning championships in the garage, why would you take the risk?

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Yes, I can only imagine to additional problems associated with hiring Rossi, as a continuance from last season though, when you look at the colors in the crowd and the massive world-wide support-I guess its all hypothetical, however I still think the benefits would outweigh the negatives-particularly for Yamaha. But there is now renewed hope with Audi in the mix, Ducati only may to find one or two missing links to gain the second they need.........And I don't believe too many people are hoping this doesn't happen.



After reading comments from your site, I can't help but mention it here, at Qatar we didn't see too many Ducati's crash at all, maybe Karol once? And none in the race. This would have to be a first from last season. They are going in the right direction, the problem is-at the moment they aren't moving fast enough for Rossi, Dorna, the fans and most other observers.



Despite all of the critic still being given, Ducati must be praised for their efforts-for imagine Motogp without this topic............its certainly brought out some fine journalistic composition from yourself and Dennis Noyes...... and is still by miles, the most talked about subject, for the 10th place getter at Qatar, IMO this speaks volumes on the subject of having Rossi riding your machine.

Talpa said:

Despite all of the critic still being give, Ducati must be praised for their efforts-for imagine Motogp without this topic............its certainly brought out some fine journalistic composition from yourself

and Dennis Noyes...... and is still by miles, the most talked about subject, for the 10th place getter at Qatar, IMO this speaks volumes on the subject of having Rossi riding your machine.

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Actually it just makes Ducati look worse - having Rossi trailing around at the back of the pack. He's the Goat no? If the great VR can't be competitive - the bike must really be a pig. After all the time and money that has been spent on making the Duc competitive and the gaping lack of results - it's pretty clear (especially after hearing Rossi spell out in no uncertain terms just how much the bike has NOT improved) that nothing less than a major departure in engine design, one that can take advantage of the twin spar frame - will give Vale the bike he needs to be competitive. Let's all hope the rumored new lighter engine is more than just a rumor.

It's easy to forget we are only one race in.

Keshav said:

Actually it just makes Ducati look worse - having Rossi trailing around at the back of the pack. He's the Goat no? If the great VR can't be competitive - the bike must really be a pig. After all the time and money that has been spent on making the Duc competitive and the gaping lack of results - it's pretty clear (especially after hearing Rossi spell out in no uncertain terms just how much the bike has NOT improved) that nothing less than a major departure in engine design, one that can take advantage of the twin spar frame - will give Vale the bike he needs to be competitive. Let's all hope the rumored new lighter engine is more than just a rumor.

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My point was around the value added to having Rossi on your bike and brand, good and bad Publicity is still publicity, and some if not most sponsors and money men only really care about how much time their brand spends in front of how many people......Ducati has never had this much publicity, even when they won the title in 2007, albeit most of it is bad, but they still have major money men backing them, and now are owned by a massive global automotive player. A reversal of fortune for the Rossi/Ducati situation, if it occurs, will be the stuff of legend, and will be the most covered/ talked about event in motorsport, and I'm sure a lot of brands would like to, and pay huge sums to have their logo in the picture if this occurs........maybe Marlboro, AMG, Enel, Monster etc, know much more than we think.....