Who thinks Rossi will retire at the end of 2012?

michaelm · Apr 17, 2012

Goatboy said:
I hope it remains as close as Qatar all year, & may the best man win. Do you remember when I said that 2011 was the year we would find out who Casey really was, what kind of rider he really is? I was wrong, it's an ongoing process & if the problems he is having persist then he has more to prove regarding how he handles the situation. Lorenzo needs to be balls out over the first half of this season to stand a chance later on I believe however & the next few races are crucial.

I do find it amusing that people who have accused Rossi of being a master media manipulator are referring to this "outburst" as such. I thought that he was always so careful about what he said & did? That he was manipulative, & yet I see this being painted as something else entirely by those same journ...people. How odd.

You see, I will talk Moto GP when I see someone worth talking to.

I personally don't believe stoner will lose the championship by jorge pressuring him into mistakes. The only two races in his factory gp career where I think a fair case can be made for him crashing due to pressure are the 2 races after laguna seca 2008, when basically his chance was pretty well already gone without misadventure to rossi; mathematically he basically needed to win 6 of 7 races, so the points situation imposed substantial pressure whether or not he had also been spooked by rossi. He essentially made no significant race riding errors in 2007 and 2011 (or 2009 for that matter), and I don't think the 2010 ducati required much assistance from him to crash, as was also the case with the 2011 bike and rossi.

If he is beaten this year it will be because jorge rides better than him, because he can't ride the new tyres, or because his physical endurance isn't up to it for whatever reason, the latter two not constituting any excuse either of course. My point which you obviously grasp is that rossi managed to supervene such factors for a decade or more as mick doohan said last year.

birdman · Apr 17, 2012

And why didnt we find out who Stoner really is as a rider in 2011 Goat? Got taken out in the second race, played points catchup for half a year. Going into Laguna, his mental bogey track he was behind all weekend, running third in the race with Lorenzo 1st the points difference was going to be 5. Seams like a bit of pressure was on, why didnt he just drop his bundle then?

barbedwirebiker · Apr 17, 2012

Evolution said:
If Rossi and Lorenzo would have ben riding the same bike, Rossi will win 8/10 racses.

If anything Rossi surpassed Stoner on the Duc, he does not crash the thing as often as Stoner did.

Lorenzo beat Rossi fair and square, even with the wall.

As far as Rossi riding The Duc better than Stoner I've never heard such utter piffle.

Wake up to yourself.

BarryMachine · Apr 17, 2012

barbedwirebiker said:
Lorenzo beat Rossi fair and square, even with the wall.

As far as Rossi riding The Duc better than Stoner I've never heard such utter piffle.

Wake up to yourself.

And it still remains the largest MGP WC win in history/biggest trouncing in MGP history.

These idiotically incorrect posts are just part of the play by Goatboy/nino/evo, he's dropped Rob but then again maybe? Rob was Talpa.?

They get on here and post the most impossible dreams then when they don't come true and reality is identified, they start claiming they ( or Rossi ) is being kicked whilst he is down.

Reality sucks, only if your idea of what the future holds is totally fairytale.

BarryMachine · Apr 17, 2012

So anyone care to speculate where Rossi is left with Audi now taking Ducati?

Rossi gone? no matter what?

Rossi to SBK with DUC. and Duc. out of MGP?

Rossi signed again with Duc.?

Audi/Ducati pay huge for Stoner to comeback? Piech was actually re-enticed to Ducati by Stoner ...... back in 2008.

Audi actually owns 20% of Suzuki ...... will they do something there?

Ducati will be fine ....... look at Lambo and Bugatti! ...... never better.

michaelm · Apr 17, 2012

Talpa said:
Absolutely, And this line from Kropo needs to be placed in capitals and bold..........And I note, personally whilst I was reading the line I had the thought of how some would object to it in the comment section underneath moreso than anything else in the article......and BINGO!

It was a good article David, well done. However I also subscribe to the fact that Money talks, and Yamaha are still yet to find a title sponsor to help pay for all of that tech, which we know must be costing a mint at present. Jarvis and the boys may not like it, but they are just employees.....one would have to be a little naive to think that the big boys in Japan really care about what Jorge and Stoner think about having Rossi as a teammate. Nor would they care if Rossi upset the apple cart in races, I would hazard a guess to say that this is what they all would want........and as with 2009-potentially 2010 without injury, the absolute dominance Yamaha inflicted over the all of the competition due to the fact that they had the two top riders going at it each week-put them way ahead in the title standings anyway, and created the type of brilliant racing we haven't seen since........Motegi 2010 is a prime example, who won that one again? I can't remember as the world was fixated on the battle for third........

Almost all punters that I know thought that Rossi's move to Ducati was a huge mistake at the time, myself included, we were right..........In saying this, being the master scriptwriter that he is, Rossi may still have the most fitting plot twist yet to come, and that would be winning on the Ducati

That line has been jumkie's for 6 months.

Whatever the reasons for yamaha and honda being in motogp, which may include abstruse japanese cultural motivations beyond my ken, it is not for direct commercial reasons, or yamaha would have kept rossi and his fiat sponsorship as you say ; on the recent record of the msma they are more disposed to waste rather than save money. I think face etc come into it, and since rossi has at times rightly or wrongly criticised both companies fairly trenchantly imo they won't be looking to get him back. If either had not won for a number of years they might be tempted, and honda made some murmurings along these lines in 2009. However I suspect they now would consider both that his time left in the sport is limited, and (again rightly or wrongly) that he doesn't offer a significant advantage in comparison with lorenzo or stoner at this stage in his career.

As j4rno and goatboy both interestingly postulate, if the CRTs become competitive (or aprilia enter as a full manufacturer) I don't think there are any mutual problems. BMW might also be an option, particularly as they seem likely this year imo to meet their pre-condition for entering motogp of winning wsbk races.

Talpa · Apr 17, 2012

michaelm said:
That line has been jumkie's for 6 months.

Whatever the reasons for yamaha and honda being in motogp, which may include abstruse japanese cultural motivations beyond my ken, it is not for direct commercial reasons, or yamaha would have kept rossi and his fiat sponsorship as you say ; on the recent record of the msma they are more disposed to waste rather than save money. I think face etc come into it, and since rossi has at times rightly or wrongly criticised both companies fairly trenchantly imo they won't be looking to get him back. If either had not won for a number of years they might be tempted, and honda made some murmurings along these lines in 2009. However I suspect they now would consider both that his time left in the sport is limited, and (again rightly or wrongly) that he doesn't offer a significant advantage in comparison with lorenzo or stoner at this stage in his career.

As j4rno and goatboy both interestingly postulate, if the CRTs become competitive (or aprilia enter as a full manufacturer) I don't think there are any mutual problems. BMW might also be an option, particularly as they seem likely this year imo to meet their pre-condition for entering motogp of winning wsbk races.

Yes I see your point, as it stands though, if a top notch rider can bring back a major sponsor or 3, then all can be quickly forgiven. Yamaha are now into their 2nd season without a major sponsor, despite having the 2010 WC on board, and Americas next big hope. There is no reason to suggest that this may also continue in 2013........I don't think that the powers that be at the triple tuning fork would have the door completely closed to Rossi somehow. I would say Rossi has a huge advantage over hiring Stoner or Lorenzo, at least for 2 more years yet, Rossi is far more expensive yes, but he brings most of that with him. In riding terms they are probably still fairly evenly matched on the right equipment, IMO Rossi still has superior racecraft and buckloads more experience, and will bring loads more money, great PR, wins, podiums and possibly another title. Stoner will bring wins, title shot, bugger all money-Dani's heritage is paying for a lot of that effort. Lorenzo will bring wins, title shot, more money than Stoner. They do have the long term advantage yes, but this is hard to consider long term if you are struggling to secure sponsors whilst winning now.......Not too mention, as most punters agree, Rossi would start competing at the front again on a Yamaha, it would prove to be a huge blow for Ducati. In saying all this, personally I do not want to see Rossi re-sign with Yamaha or Honda........Aprilia, maybe......

Its hard to say where Rossi may be at after Qatar, he has stated in no uncertain terms that he is not in Motogp to race for 5th-this has to be admired by even the most staunch detractors. And, ultimately this is has proven to be the most telling of his comments post Qatar, and probably sums up what is going to happen if Ducati can't come through with the goods

He has also recently put his hand up for some of the blame on Italian TV, stating that he deserves a 'Razza' moreso than anyone-reminiscent past self admission like his Donkey livery in 2009 after crashing out at the brickwork's, this is PR genius IMO. And if Rossi and Ducati can get themselves back up there for a win or 3 then the hoards of detractors have certainly put themselves up for one hell of a flogging

I'm hoping Ducati sort the last, and largest issue-Engine, and they come back to competitiveness, for at this point a withdrawal by both Rossi and Ducati would deal two potentially fatal blows to this series..... And that the control tyre is dumped next season for some real competition again!!

Bunyip · Apr 17, 2012

Jumkie said:
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Jeez Jumkie, Krop dropped a bomb on you and it has taken you 6 months to work out what he said ,and 6 months waiting for a chance to return the favour....and even then, you are out of context!

Krop 40-0 and serving for the set...................

ps Reminds me of poor old Roger( where is he now?) using ad hominem , ad nauseum, once he worked out what it meant.

Bunyip · Apr 17, 2012

Talpa said:
Absolutely, And this line from Kropo needs to be placed in capitals and bold..........And I note, personally whilst I was reading the line I had the thought of how some would object to it in the comment section underneath moreso than anything else in the article......and BINGO!

It was a good article David, well done. However I also subscribe to the fact that Money talks, and Yamaha are still yet to find a title sponsor to help pay for all of that tech, which we know must be costing a mint at present. Jarvis and the boys may not like it, but they are just employees.....one would have to be a little naive to think that the big boys in Japan really care about what Jorge and Stoner think about having Rossi as a teammate. Nor would they care if Rossi upset the apple cart in races, I would hazard a guess to say that this is what they all would want........and as with 2009-potentially 2010 without injury, the absolute dominance Yamaha inflicted over the all of the competition due to the fact that they had the two top riders going at it each week-put them way ahead in the title standings anyway, and created the type of brilliant racing we haven't seen since........Motegi 2010 is a prime example, who won that one again? I can't remember as the world was fixated on the battle for third........

Almost all punters that I know thought that Rossi's move to Ducati was a huge mistake at the time, myself included, we were right..........In saying this, being the master scriptwriter that he is, Rossi may still have the most fitting plot twist yet to come, and that would be winning on the Ducati

If you can use selective quoting, so can I. How about.......

"Overall, Rossi's best hope may actually lie in staying with Ducati. Right now, he is clearly not competitive, and the bike obviously still needs a lot of work. But a large part of Rossi's claim to greatness is built on his reputation as someone who can develop a bike, helped in no small part by his legendary crew chief Jerry Burgess. If Rossi leaves without making the bike competitive, then his legacy will be tarnished, despite much of the blame being attached to Ducati. Failing to turn the Ducati around will leave a stain on his reputation and that of Burgess."

Seems Krop agrees with me after all...........................

Bunyip · Apr 17, 2012

Geonerd said:
Oh, boo-hoo.

Talpa, it's called 'Karma,' and Karma is not yet done repaying Mr. Rossi.

Over the course of his career, Rossi has spared no opportunity to put the boot to his opponents, even when they were obviously down and beat (Meltdown Max and Gibblets.) If Rossi had shown some respect earlier, he'd be receiving a lot more now.

I,m surprised at how much sympathy I do have for Rossi, considering his past behaviour. I would have even more sympathy had he behaved better over the years. A really big, tiny part of me, still has a hint of pleasure with his misfourtunes.

Bunyip · Apr 17, 2012

Mr Squiggle said:
Ducati have also been highly visible with product placement in many recent big budget high profile movies...Matrix, Tron Legacy etc etc. Rossi has probably been responsible for some growth in sales but it would only be a small percentage increase one would think....at any rate it is not quantifiable in dollar terms.

PS You been on a roll lately Kesh...many funny and well reasoned posts.

You have to watch Kesh closely................more wisdom in a short pithy comment than the boppers can manage in 10000 words.............

michaelm · Apr 17, 2012

Talpa said:
Yes I see your point, as it stands though, if a top notch rider can bring back a major sponsor or 3, then all can be quickly forgiven. Yamaha are now into their 2nd season without a major sponsor, despite having the 2010 WC on board, and Americas next big hope. There is no reason to suggest that this may also continue in 2013........I don't think that the powers that be at the triple tuning fork would have the door completely closed to Rossi somehow. I would say Rossi has a huge advantage over hiring Stoner or Lorenzo, at least for 2 more years yet, Rossi is far more expensive yes, but he brings most of that with him. In riding terms they are probably still fairly evenly matched on the right equipment, IMO Rossi still has superior racecraft and buckloads more experience, and will bring loads more money, great PR, wins, podiums and possibly another title. Stoner will bring wins, title shot, bugger all money-Dani's heritage is paying for a lot of that effort. Lorenzo will bring wins, title shot, more money than Stoner. They do have the long term advantage yes, but this is hard to consider long term if you are struggling to secure sponsors whilst winning now.......Not too mention, as most punters agree, Rossi would start competing at the front again on a Yamaha, it would prove to be a huge blow for Ducati. In saying all this, personally I do not want to see Rossi re-sign with Yamaha or Honda........Aprilia, maybe......

Its hard to say where Rossi may be at after Qatar, he has stated in no uncertain terms that he is not in Motogp to race for 5th-this has to be admired by even the most staunch detractors. And, ultimately this is has proven to be the most telling of his comments post Qatar, and probably sums up what is going to happen if Ducati can't come through with the goods

He has also recently put his hand up for some of the blame on Italian TV, stating that he deserves a 'Razza' moreso than anyone-reminiscent past self admission like his Donkey livery in 2009 after crashing out at the brickwork's, this is PR genius IMO. And if Rossi and Ducati can get themselves back up there for a win or 3 then the hoards of detractors have certainly put themselves up for one hell of a flogging

I'm hoping Ducati sort the last, and largest issue-Engine, and they come back to competitiveness, for at this point a withdrawal by both Rossi and Ducati would deal two potentially fatal blows to this series..... And that the control tyre is dumped next season for some real competition again!!

I agree yamaha is more likely. The decision to go with jorge would appear to be largely jarvis's, and he is a not necessarily permanent employee as you say.

I was not saying as I think you gathered that rossi couldn't win another championship on the yamaha, just that he was probably not perceived currently as much more likely to do so than lorenzo.

The thing with yamaha and honda I think comes down to whether any of his press comments have caused mortal offence in japanese terms as max biaggi's did with honda; if so I don't think money would necessarily come into it; if money or even offending customers of their product came into it you would think they would have kept valentino in the first place. I still wonder if there is some subtext and he more or less decided to retire, promises were made to jorge, then he changed his mind.

Kropotkin · Apr 18, 2012

Talpa said:
Absolutely, And this line from Kropo needs to be placed in capitals and bold..........And I note, personally whilst I was reading the line I had the thought of how some would object to it in the comment section underneath moreso than anything else in the article......and BINGO!

It was a good article David, well done. However I also subscribe to the fact that Money talks, and Yamaha are still yet to find a title sponsor to help pay for all of that tech, which we know must be costing a mint at present. Jarvis and the boys may not like it, but they are just employees.....one would have to be a little naive to think that the big boys in Japan really care about what Jorge and Stoner think about having Rossi as a teammate. Nor would they care if Rossi upset the apple cart in races, I would hazard a guess to say that this is what they all would want........and as with 2009-potentially 2010 without injury, the absolute dominance Yamaha inflicted over the all of the competition due to the fact that they had the two top riders going at it each week-put them way ahead in the title standings anyway, and created the type of brilliant racing we haven't seen since........Motegi 2010 is a prime example, who won that one again? I can't remember as the world was fixated on the battle for third........

Almost all punters that I know thought that Rossi's move to Ducati was a huge mistake at the time, myself included, we were right..........In saying this, being the master scriptwriter that he is, Rossi may still have the most fitting plot twist yet to come, and that would be winning on the Ducati

There's more to sponsorship and racing than money. Jarvis had offers for a title sponsorship, but not enough to make him accept. From what I understand, these were sizable offers, but they would not outweigh the amount of extra work having a title sponsor involves, and the lack of freedom.

Rossi poses a similar conundrum. Yes, he's a big money draw, and yes, he would bring in sponsorship worth having, but he also brings a massive workload. There his entourage that needs to be accommodated, the press that needs to be handled, the interview requests that need to be scheduled. It's a massive undertaking. The benefits would be clear, but the question is, do they weigh up against the negatives?

Also, it is more of a gamble than you might think? What if Rossi really is past it? I don't think he is, but I am willing to accept the possibility may exist. Signing Rossi means taking on a massive amount of work for uncertain rewards. When you already have a man capable of winning championships in the garage, why would you take the risk?

GeePee · Apr 18, 2012

Why would you take the risk of upsetting Lorenzo as well.

Nino · Apr 18, 2012

BarryMachine said:
And it still remains the largest MGP WC win in history/biggest trouncing in MGP history.

These idiotically incorrect posts are just part of the play by Goatboy/nino/evo, he's dropped Rob but then again maybe? Rob was Talpa.?

They get on here and post the most impossible dreams then when they don't come true and reality is identified, they start claiming they ( or Rossi ) is being kicked whilst he is down.

Reality sucks, only if your idea of what the future holds is totally fairytale.

Especially when you're used to Planet Barry where you spend half your life on an internet forum denouncing Rossi.

Lorenzo had a brilliant year in 2010, I don't think anyone would deny that. Unfortunately for Rossi, he had his accident at Mugello and broke his leg. You can take the Lorenzo line and say 'the pressure was building' despite it only being the fourth race of the season, and Rossi had just beaten Lorenzo in back-to-back seasons, or you can say injuries are a part of MotoGP.

You can say Lorenzo would have won anyway, but nothing is proven except that you follow the Anyone But Rossi crowd.

michaelm · Apr 18, 2012

Nino said:
Especially when you're used to Planet Barry where you spend half your life on an internet forum denouncing Rossi.

Lorenzo had a brilliant year in 2010, I don't think anyone would deny that. Unfortunately for Rossi, he had his accident at Mugello and broke his leg. You can take the Lorenzo line and say 'the pressure was building' despite it only being the fourth race of the season, and Rossi had just beaten Lorenzo in back-to-back seasons, or you can say injuries are a part of MotoGP.

You can say Lorenzo would have won anyway, but nothing is proven except that you follow the Anyone But Rossi crowd.

I actually agree. It was rossi's problem not to break his leg, and no concern of jorge's that he did, any more than there should have been any detraction from rainey's 2002 and schwantz's 2003 championships (and wasn't as far as I recall), but it is pushing it to directly correlate the margin of victory in 2010 with the intrinsic relative talent of the 2 riders, although avoiding injury had obviously previously been a major talent of rossi's over his career.

Jorge is no slouch though, as him running an uninjured rossi fairly close when he got on the same tyres in 2009 demonstrated.

Nino · Apr 18, 2012

michaelm said:
I actually agree. It was rossi's problem not to break his leg, and no concern of jorge's that he did, any more than there should have been any detraction from rainey's 2002 and schwantz's 2003 championships (and wasn't as far as I recall), but it is pushing it to directly correlate the margin of victory in 2010 with the intrinsic relative talent of the 2 riders, although avoiding injury had obviously previously been a major talent of rossi's over his career.

Jorge is no slouch though, as him running an uninjured rossi fairly close when he got on the same tyres in 2009 demonstrated.

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Jorge is helluva fast, and and like Rossi at his best, has a very smooth style which helps him to manage his tyres better than most.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I've been having the same convo with people elsewhere. The bottom line is Rossi and Lorenzo were really evenly matched in 2009. In 2010 Rossi rode from Qatar onwards with his shoulder injury that Dr Costa completely misdiagnosed, and which needed significant surgery at the end of the season once the extent of the injury was finally fully understood. The tendon and socket damage robbed Rossi of his strength leading to a loss of feeling and power. Do people really think that the difference between 2009 and 2010 was just Lorenzo's ascending star or Rossi fading that quickly? [/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]It's amazing how some people will ignore logic just to kick a man when he's down.[/font]

cliche guevara · Apr 18, 2012

i read the exact same piece somewhere else...did you write that on motomatters first or did you copy and paste it?

Nino · Apr 18, 2012

cliché guevara said:
i read the exact same piece somewhere else...did you write that on motomatters first or did you copy and paste it?

Yeah it's from a convo I was having elsewhere.

BarryMachine · Apr 18, 2012

Nino said:
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]It's amazing how some people will ignore logic just to kick a man when he's down.[/font]

Gee you are mister inconsistent!!

One minute you are telling us Rossi is just as good as Stoner on the Duc. and Rossi is as good as Lorenzo etc. etc. etc.

then you go on to admit he is "down" .......

get real clown

Who thinks Rossi will retire at the end of 2012?

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