Who thinks Rossi will retire at the end of 2012?

Jap bikes rule

hawkdriver said:

The 90 degree engine has got to go for that bike to be balanced and get more weight onto the front, for all the doubters

Rossi



If he is out the door at Ducati than he did them a favor for exposing Prezi and that unbalanced bike that has killed gp careers, and Barry I can't help myself, you were wrong about the engine vibrations, the bikes are simply not balanced and they were all doing the same thing.

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You .......!! You say its the ninety degree engine ...... agreeing with me then tell me its wrong because of "vibrations". You really need to read u on Vibrating structure gyroscopes, before you have even the slightest idea



It has the word "vibration" in it because thats what causes it ......... the sympton is a resonant tendency to straighten the bike whilst turning. Also I suspect on the laydown version of the L 90 it had a tendency to cause the load on the front to cycle/resonate/vibrate ( though this many manufacturers claim to have balanced??). Tipping the engine back around the centre of grip balance of the bike helped, going narrower V better ........ all the cylinders in line with the centre of grip balance ........ best.



I'll try to explain. The pistons cranks etc. flying up and down are like weights attached to a spinning bike wheel )often used as a great demo of gyroscopic action) ....... attached because the engine block encloses them and is a rigid structure. Just because you don't see an axle acting as the centre of the gyroscope does not mean its not there because of the engine structure. Likely its centre of action is in open space between the cylinder banks.



Imagine if you fixed a motorcyle/big cycle wheel, with its axle transvers to the direction of travel, to a point somewhere between the to cylinder banks ........ and you spin that wheel ......... gyroscope ..... and it causes a force that fights to keep the bike traveling in a longitudinal direction.

Now imagine I span the wheel the opposite direction. The force trying the keep the bike traveling in a longitudinal direction is still there, regardless of the wheels spin direction!

Now imagine I spun it only a quarter turn ........ gyroscopic force is there momentarily

now spin it back one quarter turn ........ there it is again

now repeat that rapidly .......... the gyroscopic force is now a pulsating force .........



get it yet? Thats the best I can do without some demo equip. but anyway ........ read about it.



When you understand VSG's you will see that, but from your posts I can clearly see you haven't even got VSG 101 ......... mostly I suspect because you do no research. READ!

Need Yamaha ...

BarryMachine said:

You .......!! You say its the ninety degree engine ...... agreeing with me then tell me its wrong because of "vibrations". You really need to read u on Vibrating structure gyroscopes, before you have even the slightest idea

It has the word "vibration" in it because thats what causes it ......... the sympton is a resonant tendency to straighten the bike whilst turning. Also I suspect on the laydown version of the L 90 it had a tendency to cause the load on the front to cycle/resonate/vibrate ( though this many manufacturers claim to have balanced??). Tipping the engine back around the centre of grip balance of the bike helped, going narrower V better ........ all the cylinders in line with the centre of grip balance ........ best.



I'll try to explain. The pistons cranks etc. flying up and down are like weights attached to a spinning bike wheel )often used as a great demo of gyroscopic action) ....... attached because the engine block encloses them and is a rigid structure. Just because you don't see an axle acting as the centre of the gyroscope does not mean its not there because of the engine structure. Likely its centre of action is in open space between the cylinder banks.



Imagine if you fixed a motorcyle/big cycle wheel, with its axle transvers to the direction of travel, to a point somewhere between the to cylinder banks ........ and you spin that wheel ......... gyroscope ..... and it causes a force that fights to keep the bike traveling in a longitudinal direction.

Now imagine I span the wheel the opposite direction. The force trying the keep the bike traveling in a longitudinal direction is still there, regardless of the wheels spin direction!

Now imagine I spun it only a quarter turn ........ gyroscopic force is there momentarily

now spin it back one quarter turn ........ there it is again

now repeat that rapidly .......... the gyroscopic force is now a pulsating force .........



get it yet? Thats the best I can do without some demo equip. but anyway ........ read about it.



When you understand VSG's you will see that, but from your posts I can clearly see you haven't even got VSG 101 ......... mostly I suspect because you do no research.

READ!

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Please go pick up the spalding book, suzuki has been through this. With the tires used in GP you need to be able to get enough weight on the front of the bike. You can't do that with a 90 degree engine because it's to spread out. You need an engine to be compact enough so that it can have it's weight in the front of the bike. It has .... all to do with any vibrations or VSGs caused by the engine, they tilted the engine back so that they could move it forward and up in the frame bringing more weight to the front of the bike. You already proclaimed to have solved the problem for them, I guess they shouldn't have listened to your solution as it hasn't changed the characteristics of the bike which was intentionally designed to work this way. Point and shoot is the Ducati GP strategy as said by Prezi in plenty of interviews, one day they'll figure out that they need to be smooth and have corner speed instead of just a powerful engine.

If Rossi fails to finish the season he will be for ever remembered as a loser and his legacy will be tainted for sure. How ....... precious of him. He is a quitter. He can't develop a bike and he is no leader. I hope JB and the rest of the crew drops him like a stone.



I seriously hope he can not find another ride. MotoGP will be all the better with out him because at last the stories written will be about the other awesome talent that currently is on the grid and who are the future of the sport.



Dorna are complete muppets in my opinion because they are definitely going to squeeze Yamaha hard and either Smith, Dovi or Crutchlow are going to get screwed along with Hayden, Barnera and Abraham when Ducati become a casualty of Dorna trying to get Rossi at the front.



Yamaha will lose also because if they supply Rossi with a satellite spec M1 then Rossi will ..... and complain about not getting upgrades.



In the end everyone loses.

the only thing this thread highlights is that we need a much better and more apt term than 'Neo Bopper', will be tough to come up with one that doesn't involved profanity based on who we are describing......

....ly

birdman said:

Too cold at Mugello?



http://moto-racing.s...d-red-said//P3/



"Dorna know about all this and have accepted that Valentino will not finish the season, but they trust that he will return next year with a winning project and it is good for them that it is not with Ducati, since they (Ducati) are refusing to accept the RPM limit, something that is going to be applied next season, placing in doubt the future of the Borgo Panigale manufacturer in MotoGP."

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We have had some marvelous weekends already in Italy this spring, with all the bikers happily on the roads, so Mugello was quite usable. No, my best guess is that they are not testing this bike because, in spite of what they have said, it is another dead end; the real GP12 with a new engine is probably planned for Le Mans, and they might be saving the tires for that.



Unless the budget is running too thin, and Ducati have already decided to opt out when the rev limit will be introduced in 2013 and concentrate on SBK, so why waste money.

Mental Anarchist said:

If Rossi fails to finish the season he will be for ever remembered as a loser and his legacy will be tainted for sure. How ....... precious of him. He is a quitter. He can't develop a bike and he is no leader. I hope JB and the rest of the crew drops him like a stone.



I seriously hope he can not find another ride. MotoGP will be all the better with out him because at last the stories written will be about the other awesome talent that currently is on the grid and who are the future of the sport.



Dorna are complete muppets in my opinion because they are definitely going to squeeze Yamaha hard and either Smith, Dovi or Crutchlow are going to get screwed along with Hayden, Barnera and Abraham when Ducati become a casualty of Dorna trying to get Rossi at the front.



Yamaha will lose also because if they supply Rossi with a satellite spec M1 then Rossi will ..... and complain about not getting upgrades.



In the end everyone loses.

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What a load of ..... - Quite possibly the worst post i've read on this forum, did the penguin find your log-in details?

Talpa said:

the only thing this thread highlights is that we need a much better and more apt term than 'Neo Bopper', will be tough to come up with one that doesn't involved profanity based on who we are describing......

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So what will you do, where will you go when Rossi goes?

spooky said:

What a load of ..... - Quite possibly the worst post i've read on this forum, did the penguin find your log-in details?

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Seemed just possible forward thinking to me, why inflict others with the whinging and sooking because your fairytale is not coming true.

spooky said:

What a load of ..... - Quite possibly the worst post i've read on this forum, did the penguin find your log-in details?

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Seemed just possible forward thinking to me, why inflict others with the whinging and sooking because your fairytale is not coming true.

Can you imagine the tantrum Lorenzo will throw if the subject of Rossi getting an M1 even comes up?



He'll pull that serious face.....the one he pulled in the press conference with Super Sic.



Lorenzo will be the biggest problem for Rossi wanting a Yamaha.

I cannot believe the abovementioned scenario would come true. I don't think Dorna could afford to run MotoGP with only two manufacturers. The only obvious reason for accepting (or rather provoking) a Ducati dropout is that they are seriously planning without manufacturers at all for the mid-term future. What's the point for Yam and Honda in competing in kind of their own private series, against a number of CRTs. Dorna's first interest must be to keep the remaining (3 of 5 as of 2008) factories in the sport. No matter how fast CRT will be progressing, they won't be ripe enough to replace a full factory effort by 2013.



Btw I cannot think of Yamaha handing over a sat bike to Rossi - although it would make sense for them as they could state that 'see, he needed our bike to win, and he still does so'. But which bike should that be? Tech3? As mentioned above, they have Smith signed for 2013 (who I think they should try cancel out if possible, albeit not in order to make place for Rossi), and two riders that seem comfortable and fast on the bike. Next year, there will be the 2+2 rule. So it has to be either Tech3, or an 'own' Rossi team, which would result in having to reduce Tech3 to a one bike team. I don't consider this very likely either, for a number of reasons.



Another option would be for Dorna to steer away from the 2+2 rule. Which would be embarassing for them on the one hand, and on the other the only reason to do so would be to pave the way for a swansong for a rider who is 30+ and simply beyond his zenith as a rider.

Mental Anarchist said:

If Rossi fails to finish the season he will be for ever remembered as a loser and his legacy will be tainted for sure. How ....... precious of him. He is a quitter. He can't develop a bike and he is no leader. I hope JB and the rest of the crew drops him like a stone.

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Maybe JB and the crew are part of the problem, not the solution. They have so far conspicuously and spectacularly failed to come up with any solutions to his woes.

Kropotkin said:

Maybe JB and the crew are part of the problem, not the solution. They have so far conspicuously and spectacularly failed to come up with any solutions to his woes.

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No, they are infallible because some of them are Australian.

Kropotkin said:

Maybe JB and the crew are part of the problem, not the solution. They have so far conspicuously and spectacularly failed to come up with any solutions to his woes.

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Given Burgess' recent comments, one might question his motivation as well. Plus add his age and his personal situation (his wife, last year..) - I don't think he is seeing himself in the sport for much longer.

Kropotkin said:

Maybe JB and the crew are part of the problem, not the solution. They have so far conspicuously and spectacularly failed to come up with any solutions to his woes.

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Maybe they are. Maybe they didn't want to go there in the first place. Maybe they wanted to work with what they had and when Rossi kept demanding changes and new chassis rather than letting them work through the problems they felt disrespected.



Sounds to me that Rossi has decided in his mind that he just can't ride the bike and therefore there is nothing they can do. My Sifu said to me the other night that "when someone claims they can't, they become useless to everyone". Rossi has clearly claimed he can't so nothing will change regardless of what Ducati and or JB and crew do.

GeePee said:

Can you imagine the tantrum Lorenzo will throw if the subject of Rossi getting an M1 even comes up?



He'll pull that serious face.....the one he pulled in the press conference with Super Sic.



Lorenzo will be the biggest problem for Rossi wanting a Yamaha.

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Good point. If Lorenzo wins the WC ( or looks like he will ) again he will have the say too.

If Stoner is looking to win again Yamaha may just be swayed to "supply" rossi.

Goatboy said:

No, they are infallible because some of them are Australian.

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Best point you have ever made!