Which is the better show?

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I think motogp is still the better show by quite a way. But i've been saying for a while and am getting increasingly sure of what is the best thing to do. Sack bridgestone (or quite firmly make them supply suitable tyres).
 
I think motogp is still the better show by quite a way. But i've been saying for a while and am getting increasingly sure of what is the best thing to do. Sack bridgestone (or quite firmly make them supply suitable tyres).

Totally agree about the tyres.



Gpone would say that about melandri and biaggi, both of whom I am pleased to see doing well in wsbk, but they were pretty much reduced to also-ran status prior to their departure from motogp. I don't necessarily entirely agree with stoner either, the nature of the current motogp formula, in particular the electronics/fuel restrictions which are inter-related and the current tyres obviously contribute significantly to the one -line racing and lack of passing. Massive high sides have become infrequent in comparison to the salad days of the 500 formula, but I wouldn't exactly call the current bikes forgiving as gpone seem to be implying either.
 
i wouldn't exactly call the current bikes forgiving as gpone seem to be implying either.
Count the injuries we have seen only half way through the season, it's not all those black round things fault.
 
Interesting



http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/201107114291/Superbike-vs-MotoGP-chi-fa-piu-show.html





What is more apparent, is that everyone seems to know what could be done to potentially make Motogp a better spectacle, yet none of it has been? Or looks like it will be......





Yup - last weekend I hasd my calendar confused and had been looking fwd to Sachsenring - duuuhhh - But then instead I got to watch Brno and although WSBK bikes may be technically less developed and their riders not MotoGP alien status - it was certainly a whole lot more exciting to watch.



Side benefit for me was the absence of the phoenetically confused SPEED commentator who had previously introduced us to a Sirkoooweet in Spain, Aaaassen or was it Arrssen in NL and is now threatening with Sashsenring this w/e



Hope we can keep this thread focused on WSBK vs MotoGP as events and not get side tracked by Mental's personalization sniping
 
I don't know anyone who knows how to make Rossi fast on the Ducati. After all Rossi winning is what you consider a spectacle isn't it?

Yep, thats what is missing. It sounds by that article that if you turn GP into superbikes, everything will be fine
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I don't see what freakin' problem is. If you prefer watching SBK to motogp, well, go ahead and watch SBK. Problem fixed, no?



For my part, I like SBK, but it just does not captivate me like motogp does. The riding does not look as spectacular to me (seen the Stoner 1000fps Red Bull clip? Then you know what I mean) and since Bayliss left and Haga is on decline, there are really no riders left that I particularly support. And although I find the racing entertaining to watch, I am always aware that I'm watching a collection of motogp rejects, people at the latter stages of their career and those that are not good enough to make it in motogp.



Sure, motogp has its problems, the biggest one in my opinion the lack of (competitive) bikes on the grid. Still, we are having a great season[sup]1[/sup], maybe people should not to emulate waldorf and stadler so much and enjoy it a little.



[sup]1[/sup]and it would be a truly epic season if it weren't for Simonchelli (and in one case Rossi) messing up the races of the really fast guys.
 
Is this the latest "go" for "bump n go" Talpa!!
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I have a good idea Talpa ....... go spend your time watching WSBK !!!, you'd be much happier and you wouldn't need to get on here sooking and whinging.
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People seem to write the strangest articles regarding fairness and the show. WSBK is a good show b/c the bikes all make roughly the same horsepower and many manufacturers participate. WSBK is a bad show b/c the bikes are production based which means major updates to the frame or the engine must flow through the production line. Developing a bike through the production channels takes several years and costs a great deal of money, plus, companies have to convince people to buy it. For this reason, bikes can be off the pace for years.



MotoGP will never have stagnant development, and I am deeply disappointed that Honda and Yamaha are so afraid to horsepower cap the sport at 81mm (260hp) if they increase fuel capacity. In MotoGP the manufacturers can introduce new parts at every round. They can change from a V-4 to an I-4 during an event if they were so inclined, and the GP rapid prototyping facilities can churn out scores of one-off parts that would otherwise be illegal in WSBK. My only gripe with the current 81mm limitation is that it requires a 4-cylinder rule. If they would just stroke limit the class at 48.5mm, a lot more engine configurations would be legal. Dynamic prototyping and cutting edge technology is what sets MotoGP apart from WSBK.



I don't agree with the nonsense about limiting technology in order to make the racing better. If technology is going to be limited, it's b/c rider aids take away the skill necessary to ride a bike. Limited technology doesn't necessarily make racing closer. A lot of new technology was added between the mid 1980s and 2006, yet the racing was no less amazing during the 2006 season. If they will just add fuel, it's straight back to the 990s. Rossi puts a big mushy balloon on the front wheel, he brakes 10-15 meters later than everyone else, blocks the hell out of them at the apex, and then cracks open the throttle to exit. Everyone adopts the same basic strategy. They don't need to limit technology b/c no amount of technology is going to navigate a rider through a block pass. Riders can't block pass ATM b/c they don't have the fuel or the torque to pull it off without losing lots of time.



I do tend to agree with GP One about the tires, but I don't blame Bridgestone b/c WSBK has a similar problem. With a strictly regulated control tire--a control tire contract in which the supplier only brings a few design variants to each event--some manufacturers figure it out and others suffer. Either increase the investment so Bridgestone supply many variants that suit a wide variety of riding styles and chassis designs, or figure out a way to restore the tire war. I actually think they are doing the latter now that Dorna have hired the ex-racing-director from Bridgestone. If so, they need to hurry it up!
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I suspect the FIM/IMS/Dorna/MSMA know all of these things, but reaching a consensus is probably quite difficult. The horsepower cap is obviously a sticky wicket for the MSMA who seem hellbent on making sure that all bikes do NOT make equal horsepower in MotoGP. Terrible shame b/c the manufacturers who are spooked by a horsepower cap have a technology portfolio that is decades ahead of the manufacturers who do not currently participate in MotoGP. They won't be easily caught regardless of the fuel rules.
 
People seem to write the strangest articles regarding fairness and the show. WSBK is a good show b/c the bikes all make roughly the same horsepower and many manufacturers participate. WSBK is a bad show b/c the bikes are production based which means major updates to the frame or the engine must flow through the production line. Developing a bike through the production channels takes several years and costs a great deal of money, plus, companies have to convince people to buy it. For this reason, bikes can be off the pace for years.



MotoGP will never have stagnant development, and I am deeply disappointed that Honda and Yamaha are so afraid to horsepower cap the sport at 81mm (260hp) if they increase fuel capacity. In MotoGP the manufacturers can introduce new parts at every round. They can change from a V-4 to an I-4 during an event if they were so inclined, and the GP rapid prototyping facilities can churn out scores of one-off parts that would otherwise be illegal in WSBK. My only gripe with the current 81mm limitation is that it requires a 4-cylinder rule. If they would just stroke limit the class at 48.5mm, a lot more engine configurations would be legal. Dynamic prototyping and cutting edge technology is what sets MotoGP apart from WSBK.



I don't agree with the nonsense about limiting technology in order to make the racing better. If technology is going to be limited, it's b/c rider aids take away the skill necessary to ride a bike. Limited technology doesn't necessarily make racing closer. A lot of new technology was added between the mid 1980s and 2006, yet the racing was no less amazing during the 2006 season. If they will just add fuel, it's straight back to the 990s. Rossi puts a big mushy balloon on the front wheel, he brakes 10-15 meters later than everyone else, blocks the hell out of them at the apex, and then cracks open the throttle to exit. Everyone adopts the same basic strategy. They don't need to limit technology b/c no amount of technology is going to navigate a rider through a block pass. Riders can't block pass ATM b/c they don't have the fuel or the torque to pull it off without losing lots of time.



I do tend to agree with GP One about the tires, but I don't blame Bridgestone b/c WSBK has a similar problem. With a strictly regulated control tire--a control tire contract in which the supplier only brings a few design variants to each event--some manufacturers figure it out and others suffer. Either increase the investment so Bridgestone supply many variants that suit a wide variety of riding styles and chassis designs, or figure out a way to restore the tire war. I actually think they are doing the latter now that Dorna have hired the ex-racing-director from Bridgestone. If so, they need to hurry it up!
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I suspect the FIM/IMS/Dorna/MSMA know all of these things, but reaching a consensus is probably quite difficult. The horsepower cap is obviously a sticky wicket for the MSMA who seem hellbent on making sure that all bikes do NOT make equal horsepower in MotoGP. Terrible shame b/c the manufacturers who are spooked by a horsepower cap have a technology portfolio that is decades ahead of the manufacturers who do not currently participate in MotoGP. They won't be easily caught regardless of the fuel rules.



great post lex, at least we have a few decent contributions to the debate.
 
Motogp far exceeds WSBK in every way at the moment ......... how can anybody see otherwise
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You come up with some idiotic proposal, ie. trying to call this a debate
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, that reading an article can sway folks opinion on what they get enjoyment from.
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oh I forgot that this is the era of "Stoner the Usurper" ( 2006 -2011 )
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..... whine sook moan away, it isn't making it better for you Talps
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For christ sake there aren't even any standout riders in WSBK at the moment
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just all old hacks who have had their day. You'd probably even enjoy watching cars in traffic jostling for position
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFxTVayR54A
 
Motogp far exceeds WSBK in every way at the moment ......... how can anybody see otherwise
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You come up with some idiotic proposal, ie. trying to call this a debate
<
<
, that reading an article can sway folks opinion on what they get enjoyment from.
<
<
<




oh I forgot that this is the era of "Stoner the Usurper" ( 2006 -2011 )
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..... whine sook moan away, it isn't making it better for you Talps
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For christ sake there aren't even any standout riders in WSBK at the moment
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just all old hacks who have had their day. You'd probably even enjoy watching cars in traffic jostling for position
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFxTVayR54A





.... off and don't read it then ..... brain.......simple enough for you?
 
Hey Why are you and Jumkie so at odds with each other!!??



Jumkie swears blind ( blind drunk
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) that I'm a ....!



and here you are telling me I'm a .....
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I sure am confused .......... wish there was a magazine article to tell me which is right
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Listen you ....... ..... you effectively got on here posting an admission that you are just here to troll. ie. You would rather be watching WSBK ....... then if you dislike MGP so much why are you here? why are you complaining about it and making suggestions to make it into something which it will thankfully never be!
<
 
Hey Why are you and Jumkie so at odds with each other!!??



Jumkie swears blind ( blind drunk
<
) that I'm a ....!



and here you are telling me I'm a .....
<
<






I sure am confused .......... wish there was a magazine article to tell me which is right
<
<
<
<








Listen you ....... ..... you effectively got on here posting an admission that you are just here to troll. ie. You would rather be watching WSBK ....... then if you dislike MGP so much why are you here? why are you complaining about it and making suggestions to make it into something which it will thankfully never be!
<





Nah Nah Junior



I think Talpa's name for you was just outright wrong.

He should not have called you that!!!!!!!!





No way should he have used "Brain" in his description of you.

The very issue that you cannot determine if you are a male appendage or a female orifice makes it obvious enough that the only grey matter inside your skull is snot.
 
World Superbike has become GP's senior tour. Tour if you want to see the best in the world at their prime, GP. If you want to see the same riders pushing 40, SBK.
 
World Superbike has become GP's senior tour. Tour if you want to see the best in the world at their prime, GP. If you want to see the same riders pushing 40, SBK.



Or you could watch and enjoy both
 

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