What's Wrong with the Ducati?

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Even with Stoner out and Spies so erratic the best current position for the first Ducati (on the dry) is probably 7th, With a fit Stoner and a consistent Spies, they would be 9th... It is true that the factory Ducatis are not that far from the satellite Hondas and Yamaha, and staying with them is their next step of improvement. If they can make that step, there could be (in favorable circumstances) a window of opportunity for a dry podium (Ducati have two good riders after all!) and I think that is precisely what they will try to achieve at Misano after conducting their last tests there.
 
With that extra setup time I would be surprised if they didn't do a little better, a little.
 
Goatboy said:
With that extra setup time I would be surprised if they didn't do a little better, a little.
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Doubt it, as long as it doesn't drop it's bundle again it should be good for 7th. Ducati are still a year or two behind
 
J4rn0 said:
I said it elsewhere, if Ducati cannot get back the only rider who could ride the Desmosedici real fast, at least they should get back the team that knew how to set it up best.
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http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120831f.htm



Looks like Dovi read your mind J4rn0. Makes so much sense to at least try this. I know it's all talk now but I wish Hayden was the one to pick them up so we would have a better idea of how much the crew factored into the results if at all. On the off chance they were a big part of it I would love Hayden to get the benefit. Did they work with Mika Kallio when he took the seat for a few races in 2009?
 
BKmoto said:
http://www.superbike...Aug/120831f.htm
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That seems reasonable. Ducati really need to just copy the best bike on the grid, and this team could be a small part of the answer. I really think Ducati is trying (why else did they bring Loris back for testing) to find any compromise in order to increase its corning abilities. At Brno, the ducatis where no where the tops speed, or am I recalling this wrong?
 
BKmoto said:
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120831f.htm



Looks like Dovi read your mind J4rn0. Makes so much sense to at least try this. I know it's all talk now but I wish Hayden was the one to pick them up so we would have a better idea of how much the crew factored into the results if at all. On the off chance they were a big part of it I would love Hayden to get the benefit. Did they work with Mika Kallio when he took the seat for a few races in 2009?
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Yes they worked with Kallio. They worked with Sete before Stoner came as well. Well most of them not all.
 
Traverser said:
I really think Ducati is trying (why else did they bring Loris back for testing) to find any compromise in order to increase its corning abilities.
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Capirossi asked and was given the opportunity to ride a lot of bikes - all the CRTs, Gresini Honda. He will ride the Ducati at Misano. Yamaha has said he can ride the M1 before the end of the season.



He was riding them to satisfy his desire to know more about the current crop of bikes, not to provide R&D for the teams (and for a jolly, no doubt. .... job, he's got!).
 
michaelm said:
I think gabbarini has been with stoner from the lcr days.
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Correct. Mick. Gabbarini was with him at LCR

Watch the last race of 2006 on motogp.com & see the familiar faces crewing for Bayliss as Sete's replacement.

Clerici, Brunetti, Gagni & Leoni - Hopefully they all find homes back at Ducati.
 
Well it seems the problem with the Ducati is Rossi. Iannone has lapped faster than Rossi at Mugello which surely should be impossible considering Mugello is the location of so many Rossi victories and a significant portion of testing completed by Rossi and Ducati.
 
Yes sure. Ducati's problem was Rossi since the beginning, When he was young and strong he beat Ducati every year with only one exception; and once he grew old and tired he joined Ducati to sabotage it from the inside.

Great. Ducati should just wait that he retires then, and all problems will be over.

<
 
J4rn0 said:
Yes sure. Ducati's problem was Rossi since the beginning, When he was young and strong he beat Ducati every year with only one exception; and once he grew old and tired he joined Ducati to sabotage it from the inside.

Great. Ducati should just wait that he retires then, and all problems will be over.

<
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In reference to the article quoted by povol, rossi was a problem because he himself (not unreasonably) and the very circumstance of having him in the team demanded close to instant success. The rules were changed against ducati, with them no longer able to develop a tyre to fit the requirements of their bike, a very different design to honda and yamaha, having the integrated engine a problem with the limited engine rule, and the 1000cc formula probably taking away most of any engine advantage they may have had. I don't think Honda or Yamaha themselves themselves could come up with an immediately successful bike if suddenly forced in a very different design direction, as the article said it would likely take at least 2 or 3 years.
 
michaelm said:
In reference to the article quoted by povol, rossi was a problem because he himself (not unreasonably) and the very circumstance of having him in the team demanded close to instant success. The rules were changed against ducati, with them no longer able to develop a tyre to fit the requirements of their bike, a very different design to honda and yamaha, having the integrated engine a problem with the limited engine rule, and the 1000cc formula probably taking away most of any engine advantage they may have had. I don't think Honda or Yamaha themselves themselves could come up with an immediately successful bike if suddenly forced in a very different design direction, as the article said it would likely take at least 2 or 3 years.
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How many years does Ducati get to use that as an excuse, even Nakamoto came out and said he was surprised Ducati kept on doing the same bike. If every rider to get on that bike said the front end was terrible and the bike isn't balanced why should it take so long to balance a bike?
 
hawkdriver said:
How many years does Ducati get to use that as an excuse, even Nakamoto came out and said he was surprised Ducati kept on doing the same bike. If every rider to get on that bike said the front end was terrible and the bike isn't balanced why should it take so long to balance a bike?
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I think it probably needed rossi to tell them the bike was inherently flawed. It is probably stoner who did them the dis-service, since his dominant 2007 season appeared to convince ducati of their genius. If you recall it was not just ducati but most others including rossi and burgess who thought the bike just needed a few tweaks prior to 2011, and that it was stoner's development that was the problem. The substance of the article povol posted was that audi wanted to re-evaluate things before spending megabucks on what might be a wrong direction and their takeover has slowed the rate of change this year.



I don't think the impact of the tyre changes can be underestimated either. Maybe the bike was no good anyway, but it definitely was not suited by the same tyres which suited the yamaha and honda, and ducati foresaw this and were quite opposed to control tyre, even offering to become the michelin factory team.
 
The balance of the bike in my opinion was most affected by the switch from screamer to big bang. The extra traction that the new engine firing order generated is what started pushing the front end. I believe that if Ducati went back to the screamer configuration the front end problems would be significantly reduced.



For those with engineering backgrounds: with a lower rpm of 15,500 what would be the benefits of either the screamer or the big bang? Would it make sense to revert back to the screamer style of engine?
 
Mental Anarchist said:
The balance of the bike in my opinion was most affected by the switch from screamer to big bang. The extra traction that the new engine firing order generated is what started pushing the front end. I believe that if Ducati went back to the screamer configuration the front end problems would be significantly reduced.



For those with engineering backgrounds: with a lower rpm of 15,500 what would be the benefits of either the screamer or the big bang? Would it make sense to revert back to the screamer style of engine?
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People other than stoner couldn't ride the thing fast prior to 2010 either, and by all reports his success involved a unique and impossible to replicate riding method.



I agree that whatever they did to the 2009 bike to produce the 2010 bike which included the change from the screamer made the bike diabolocal for stoner as well.
 

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