What'l be the impact of Claims Rule Teams in MGP?

Keshav said:

Just now - re-watching some WSBK action and remembering something I thought of when the whole idea of CRT in

MGP was first suggested. In WSBK - where the bikes are tuned as highly as rules will allow - mechanical DNFs are

a regular feature. I can't help speculate what the rate of engine failures will be if street bike engines are tuned to

an even higher degree. I love the idea of a fuller grid; and enjoy seeing the efforts of teams with smaller budgets

struggling to duke it out with the factory teams. I really miss the old 500cc days when there were always a good

number of scruffy, hard-charging privateers hustling to find some kind of parity with the big-money boys.

However - what I don't want to see is Nicky (hasn't he suffered enough?) taken out of the game by oil

from an exploded superbike engine - nor do I want races continually being red-flagged for oil clean-ups.

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I dont think it will be a problem, WSBK engines are at a pretty damn high tune and you dont really see red flags for oil downs. CRT is nothing but a test for the upcoming Moto1 that will replace MotoGp in the not to distant future.

Keshav said:

Just now - re-watching some WSBK action and remembering something I thought of when the whole idea of CRT in

MGP was first suggested. In WSBK - where the bikes are tuned as highly as rules will allow - mechanical DNFs are

a regular feature. I can't help speculate what the rate of engine failures will be if street bike engines are tuned to

an even higher degree. I love the idea of a fuller grid; and enjoy seeing the efforts of teams with smaller budgets

struggling to duke it out with the factory teams. I really miss the old 500cc days when there were always a good

number of scruffy, hard-charging privateers hustling to find some kind of parity with the big-money boys.

However - what I don't want to see is Nicky (hasn't he suffered enough?) taken out of the game by oil

from an exploded superbike engine - nor do I want races continually being red-flagged for oil clean-ups.

Click to expand...

Hi, I don't watch so much WSBK - just occasional AMA - help me a bit - how often do engine failures lead to red flags. I'm all for no limits on everything other than max cc - but leave # cylinders, mpg, weight open - oh and minimum tc. I'd love to see a return to bigger grids - with some hungry fighters mixing it up with today's elitists.

ptk50 said:

Hi, I don't watch so much WSBK - just occasional AMA - help me a bit - how often do engine failures lead to red flags. I'm all for no limits on everything other than max cc - but leave # cylinders, mpg, weight open - oh and minimum tc. I'd love to see a return to bigger grids - with some hungry fighters mixing it up with today's elitists.

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Remember a few incidents but the WSS at Assen a few years ago was the worst I ever saw.

Keshav said:

I confess last year's WSBK was kind of a blur for me so I can't cite incidents from 2010.

But the year that Spies was there - I recall more than a few incidents of bikes leaving oil on the track.



In any event - there are bound to be other factors resulting from inclusion of CRTs. I'm curious to

know what others might speculate they might be.

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last year at valencia when V. IANNUZZO bike shat its self of oil after an engine bloiw out going into the home straight and simon andrews came in afterwards and hit the oil and creamed into the wall very nasty indeed.

Keshav said:

Just now - re-watching some WSBK action and remembering something I thought of when the whole idea of CRT in

MGP was first suggested. In WSBK - where the bikes are tuned as highly as rules will allow - mechanical DNFs are

a regular feature. I can't help speculate what the rate of engine failures will be if street bike engines are tuned to

an even higher degree. I love the idea of a fuller grid; and enjoy seeing the efforts of teams with smaller budgets

struggling to duke it out with the factory teams. I really miss the old 500cc days when there were always a good

number of scruffy, hard-charging privateers hustling to find some kind of parity with the big-money boys.

However - what I don't want to see is Nicky (hasn't he suffered enough?) taken out of the game by oil

from an exploded superbike engine - nor do I want races continually being red-flagged for oil clean-ups.

Click to expand...

WSBK is rev limited which means teams are forced to run as much lift and as much duration as they can possibly get out of the valvetrain if they want to make maximum power. This is why Aprilia wanted the accuracy of gear-driven cams, and it's why everyone complained when Aprilia gained another 3-4hp in addition to longer service intervals (in theory, Aprilia should already have most of the manufacturers covered by about 15-20hp). MotoGP is not rev limited so there is little incentive to tune the valvetrain so aggressively. A BMW S1000RR engine can make about 240-250hp using the same WSBK parts. Imo, that is enough horsepower to be competitive.



Overall, I think CRT is a red herring that has arisen from Dorna's feud with the MSMA. The MSMA must believe that Dorna can banish them otherwise the MSMA won't play ball. CRT is only in the rulebook in case Dorna gets sideways with Yamaha or Honda (or both) and MotoGP needs grid fillers. Ezy has already said on numerous occasions that they will be grid fillers. The Suter M1 and Herve Poncharal (IRTA chief) pretending like he might switch to CRT is all part of the illusion.



The end game for Dorna is to break up the MSMA cartel, by buying the participants. Once they've bought the participants, they can ask the MSMA to make changes to the formula. Fuel is of the utmost importance. If Dorna get a 24L fuel rule, and they have an 81mm bore restriction in place, MotoGP will be horsepower limited just like WSBK and the racing will probably resemble WSBK as well. If you sell commercial rights, you want a horsepower cap, happy riders, and close racing just like 2006.

mylexicon said:

WSBK is rev limited which means teams are forced to run as much lift and as much duration as they can possibly get out of the valvetrain if they want to make maximum power. This is why Aprilia wanted the accuracy of gear-driven cams, and it's why everyone complained when Aprilia gained another 3-4hp in addition to longer service intervals (in theory, Aprilia should already have most of the manufacturers covered by about 15-20hp). MotoGP is not rev limited so there is little incentive to tune the valvetrain so aggressively. A BMW S1000RR engine can make about 240-250hp using the same WSBK parts. Imo, that is enough horsepower to be competitive.



Overall, I think CRT is a red herring that has arisen from Dorna's feud with the MSMA. The MSMA must believe that Dorna can banish them otherwise the MSMA won't play ball. CRT is only in the rulebook in case Dorna gets sideways with Yamaha or Honda (or both) and MotoGP needs grid fillers. Ezy has already said on numerous occasions that they will be grid fillers. The Suter M1 and Herve Poncharal (IRTA chief) pretending like he might switch to CRT is all part of the illusion.



The end game for Dorna is to break up the MSMA cartel, by buying the participants. Once they've bought the participants, they can ask the MSMA to make changes to the formula. Fuel is of the utmost importance. If Dorna get a 24L fuel rule, and they have an 81mm bore restriction in place, MotoGP will be horsepower limited just like WSBK and the racing will probably resemble WSBK as well. If you sell commercial rights, you want a horsepower cap, happy riders, and close racing just like 2006.

Click to expand...

Lot of confirmed theories floating around today.

I've always wondered if the MGP spec tire is better than the WSB spec tire, does anyone know?



It'd be interesting if they just brought over a WSB, put some 'Stones' on it and see what kind of laps they can do.



It's not like the WSB are off the showroom anyway and might as well be classified prototypes.